miatafreak
Banned
youngster said:
yes it cuts back on power as soon as it senses tire slip.
Better performer, 03/04 Terminator or GT500
- Thread starter 03Terminator
- Start date
yes it cuts back on power as soon as it senses tire slip.
miatafreak said:
What F150 motor ever came with cracked FORGED I beams? :shrug:
miatafreak said:
You're kidding right? It's electronic throttle control with a delay, not traction control. It's very easily remedied with a tune.
MustangWorld.com called, they want their village idiot back.
youngster said:
The 4340 H beams found in '03/04s are good to 750 continuous crank HP, and not over 7000rpm (with that power).
Oliver/Carillo billet steel rods hold ~1400 flywheel HP, Manley billet ultralights are a little lighter/thinner in the neck section and are good for 1200HP.
Got this off a web site for the Lightning, hope it explains what "cracked forged" means.
LIGHTNING's 5.4 : gets typical forged connecting rods. They can be re-sized. REGULAR F-150 5.4 : gets "CRACKED CAP" forged rods. This means that the rod is made in one peice and then a machine "CRACKS" the rod cap off to make it seperate. The only draw back to this set-up is that a "CRACKED CAP" rod can NOT be re-sized if you want to rebuild the engine. You must buy new rods. They are said to be good to 6000RPM. They are really strong but not quite as strong as the LIGHTNING's forged rods.
I don't see these being a problem at the stock HP levels but push the motor past the stock level and you may be asking for trouble. I don't plan on moding my GT500 so it's not that big of a concern for me.
LIGHTNING's 5.4 : gets typical forged connecting rods. They can be re-sized. REGULAR F-150 5.4 : gets "CRACKED CAP" forged rods. This means that the rod is made in one peice and then a machine "CRACKS" the rod cap off to make it seperate. The only draw back to this set-up is that a "CRACKED CAP" rod can NOT be re-sized if you want to rebuild the engine. You must buy new rods. They are said to be good to 6000RPM. They are really strong but not quite as strong as the LIGHTNING's forged rods.
I don't see these being a problem at the stock HP levels but push the motor past the stock level and you may be asking for trouble. I don't plan on moding my GT500 so it's not that big of a concern for me.
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03Terminator said:
Regular 5.4s have cracked PM rods, not forged.
miatafreak
Banned
actually 3v 5.4 and shelby have the same shortblock. the only thing different is shelby has dished pistons.
Fourcam330 said:
That's what I thought but at least it gives us an idea as to what "cracked forged" means. I pulled that off a web site for the Lightning. What I take it to mean is that instead of the connecting rod being forged as two seperate pieces and then machined and honed to fit together, the cracked rod is forged as one piece and then the top is "cracked" off by a machine. It's supposed to cut down manufacturing costs and the two pieces are said to fit together better. :shrug:
Any way, if you have another resource that explains it better please post a link as I want to learn more about this process.
Thanks!!!
miatafreak said:
No they don't. The reg. spec 5.4 has a cast crank, PM rods, and hypereuctectic pistons.
Shelby has a forged crank, forged cracked rods, and forged pistons.
03Terminator said:
There was never any question on my part as to the definition of a cracked rod. Just the use of said rods in different vehicles.
miatafreak
Banned
Fourcam330 said:
well i don't know who told you that but they're dead wrong.
Fourcam330 said:
So in your opinion, wouldn't the cracked forged rod be stronger because it's forged out of one piece of metal instead of two different pieces vs the traditional forged rod??? The 03/04 Cobra's had pretty tuff bottom ends so I don't see this motor being any different. Especially with the head screw up with the 03/04's. Not trying to get into any argument here, just my 2 cents.
miatafreak said:
Your stupidity continues to amaze me.
03Terminator said:
It really all depends what the rod is made of and how it's forged. As I said before as of a few years ago, PM rods were absolute junk, now there are versions that can sustain 800HP.
Fourcam330 said:
Dam, I didn't think they could handle that much power!!!
That's crazy!!! Of course Ford would never put some thing like that in a Mustang, it would cost too much money. :dw:
Just Because You Can Doesn't Mean You Should...
Regardless of how people use them, the 4340 H beams are only "rated" for 750 continuous HP. RPM plays a large roll in the longevity of connecting rods, especially on longer stroke motors such as Modulars. For instance, even though a forged H beam would have been strong enough to take the HP my N/A 5.5 puts out, I would only have been able to spin the motor to 7000rpm, or with a 4.6 8000rpm. Billet steel rods have been tested to 9200rpm in 4.6s and 8100rpm in 5.4s.
Brian Bradford ran for 3+ years at 550-600rwhp on the stock 98 shortblock (PM rods, hypereuc pistons) before it took a dump. Does that mean everyone should do it? Hell no.
Rod bolts are also of paramount importance. I wouldn't feel too uncomfortable using said H beams in a 800HP motor if 7/16" ARP 2000 rod bolts were used. However with respect to long term durability, I personally wouldn't try to save any $ by skimping on the rotating assembly.
You also have to keep in mind that those 800-900 HP Modular motors with forged rods, and especially those with the stock pistons, haven't been running for very long, and that NOTHING lives reliably at 950rwhp+. The parts are simply too stressed.
youngster said:
Regardless of how people use them, the 4340 H beams are only "rated" for 750 continuous HP. RPM plays a large roll in the longevity of connecting rods, especially on longer stroke motors such as Modulars. For instance, even though a forged H beam would have been strong enough to take the HP my N/A 5.5 puts out, I would only have been able to spin the motor to 7000rpm, or with a 4.6 8000rpm. Billet steel rods have been tested to 9200rpm in 4.6s and 8100rpm in 5.4s.
Brian Bradford ran for 3+ years at 550-600rwhp on the stock 98 shortblock (PM rods, hypereuc pistons) before it took a dump. Does that mean everyone should do it? Hell no.
Rod bolts are also of paramount importance. I wouldn't feel too uncomfortable using said H beams in a 800HP motor if 7/16" ARP 2000 rod bolts were used. However with respect to long term durability, I personally wouldn't try to save any $ by skimping on the rotating assembly.
You also have to keep in mind that those 800-900 HP Modular motors with forged rods, and especially those with the stock pistons, haven't been running for very long, and that NOTHING lives reliably at 950rwhp+. The parts are simply too stressed.
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I've gotten one thing outta this thread and that is that miatafreak is a moron and does not have a clue what he is talking about. :burn:
Paul
Paul
youngster said:
Yes the GT500 is coming with a twin screw 2.3L blower. The KB article to the contrary is old news. Honestly, I'll have to see the rods first hand before making a judgement on them.
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