BOSS 5.0 iron block?

[98 Saleen Cobra]

^^^ When will your car be done? Hopefully Shaun will have mine finished and tuned mid March. Curious to see who makes more ;-) i had been debating heavily on the Boss block and reading this thread had me going back and forth. lots of good info though and too bad the price went up from the time this thread started. i saw them as low as $999 at one point and now they are up to $1200. Good luck with the build though, sounds nice :beer:

thanks bud I was actually looking at your teksid forsale, but I think I'm sticking with the Boss block for sure. I dont know when my car will be done.. It's hard to tell, as for who will make more it's a toss up because I"m running 93 octane out here so more boost, plus more displacement, plus the 98 cams in my car.. I don't know what you're running but either way it'll be fun :beer: we'll have to meet up after our cars are done though

 

[SlowSVT]

Yea it really can overwhelm the tires. I don't have that much expierence as I'm only 22. But I've been doing this since I was 15 lol. I haven't raced in 5 years though since joining the Coast Guard. Yes not being in your powerband does suck but that's why I have 4.10's and usually open tracking I'm not below 4k anyways which is perfect for my blower, but i'm pretty sure I'm going to have to shift into 5th every now and again lol. BTW I'm going with hellfire rings as well. I'm shooting for around 650 as well on 93 octane though, since I'm living in AL.. Maybe around 600rwhp on 91.. Eliminating rotating mass is critical as you already know. I have done a lot of that as it is with 2 piece rotors all around and my HRE's. As for an IRS that's probably not going to happen. I have no much invested in my SRA with a torque arm, panhard (soon to be watts link), coilovers etc. As for wheels, my HRE's are already stupid light.. I think something like 22lbs or something.. Maybe less I don't recall. All in all I wish my stuff was smog legal. the vortech T-trim isn't and I have all my emissions stuff ripped out as well. Luckily my mom lives in a smog exemt county in CA so I lucked out. :beer:

Kinda nice to hear of a young guy who understands the draw and value of a car that does more then just go fast in a straight line. Cars set-up well to launch hard off-the-line quickly loose the advantage that chassis/driveline affords them where a road racer will hold it own and then some :mj:....... that is until the road throws them a curb! I will say there are a fair share of Cobra owners who do appreciate the handling potential of these cars and exploit it. Go to the GT500 site and it's all 1/4 mile. For me there is not better combination of power, chassis and sheer "sex appeal" of a NE Cobra. This car is almost "perfect!" The wheelbase is shorter then a honda Civic which makes throwing it into a corner a real treat :banana:

Well with your SRA you could easily find someone with an extensively modified IRS willing to trade. Just be open to the idea and wait until the right one comes along. It reduces unsprung mass at each corner by a whopping 65 lbs and can be de-cambered and changes settings as the wheel moves in it's travel.

Don't wanna lead this thread topic astray. Back to the Boss block.

Russ :beer:

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Kinda nice to hear of a young guy who understands the draw and value of a car that does more then just go fast in a straight line. Cars set-up well to launch hard off-the-line quickly loose the advantage that chassis/driveline affords them where a road racer will hold it own and then some :mj:....... that is until the road throws them a curb! I will say there are a fair share of Cobra owners who do appreciate the handling potential of these cars and exploit it. Go to the GT500 site and it's all 1/4 mile. For me there is not better combination of power, chassis and sheer "sex appeal" of a NE Cobra. This car is almost "perfect!" The wheelbase is shorter then a honda Civic which makes throwing it into a corner a real treat :banana:

Well with your SRA you could easily find someone with an extensively modified IRS willing to trade. Just be open to the idea and wait until the right one comes along. It reduces unsprung mass at each corner by a whopping 65 lbs and can be de-cambered and changes settings as the wheel moves in it's travel.

Don't wanna lead this thread topic astray. Back to the Boss block.

Russ :beer:

This is very true. I have been around cars and road racing my entire life.. Dad raced historic nascars, owned a GT350 and one of the original Parnelli Jones Boss 302 Trans-am cars and raced that as well. He still races lol. Anyways I know what you're saying about the IRS. It is added weight but on the flipside it does have it's advantages, and de-cambering is awesome, even though griggs does it, it's a pretty penny that's for sure!. As for the boss block I'm stoked about picking it up the first week in feb, and actually be able to enjoy my car for a little bit. I mean it's a 98 and only has 30k mi on it lol. It's been broken half the time..
Now some real questions on the boss block. I see all the cooling and oil mods you have done to this block. Is this really necessary for just some open tracking, and street duty?? Or not so much? :beer: Oh and BTW Russ, your the man with explaining and really helping people out, I know that I really appreciate it and I learn alot every time we chat.

 

[bobby1110]

my tuner is my motor builder. i guess thats why. thanks for all the help guys. and post some more pics of the build up.

 

[SlowSVT]

This is very true. I have been around cars and road racing my entire life.. Dad raced historic nascars, owned a GT350 and one of the original Parnelli Jones Boss 302 Trans-am cars and raced that as well. He still races lol. Anyways I know what you're saying about the IRS. It is added weight but on the flipside it does have it's advantages, and de-cambering is awesome, even though griggs does it, it's a pretty penny that's for sure!. As for the boss block I'm stoked about picking it up the first week in feb, and actually be able to enjoy my car for a little bit. I mean it's a 98 and only has 30k mi on it lol. It's been broken half the time..
Now some real questions on the boss block. I see all the cooling and oil mods you have done to this block. Is this really necessary for just some open tracking, and street duty?? Or not so much? :beer: Oh and BTW Russ, your the man with explaining and really helping people out, I know that I really appreciate it and I learn alot every time we chat.

Don't have time to elaborate but the answer to your question:

Are all the oil and cooling mods I've done to the engine necessary?

The short answer is "no". The block will work fine as delivered. No need to do all that stuff. The Ford engineers designed this block from the start with racing in mind.

Do I think they "improve" the performance of those systems? Definitely!

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Ok awesome. It would be one thing if I was doing the work like you but I'm not so I'd have to pay for all that extra stuff lol.. :beer:

 

[SlowSVT]

Ok awesome. It would be one thing if I was doing the work like you but I'm not so I'd have to pay for all that extra stuff lol.. :beer:

I do all my own engine work and as a mechanical engineer who is ainal I look at things from a different perspective.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Damn that's awesome!

 

[cobra=trouble]

i think my cost will exceed 8grand easy ..and that's not even close to everything i would want.

 

[DevilSun]

My BOSS based long block build came in yesterday Should be going in early in the week. This thread was a considerable help

 

[SlowSVT]

My BOSS based long block build came in yesterday Should be going in early in the week. This thread was a considerable help

No proof with pictures dude! :rockon:

What's inside

 

[DevilSun]

Something like this? Everything from top to bottom new except the heads themselves. New Kellogg crankshaft, Oliver rods, Diamond pistons, custom cams, oversized valves, on and on. Once it's put in locally I still have a lot of work to do myself to get it ready to go, but considering it's been down since 2007 a lot of progress recently.

 

[SlowSVT]

Something like this? Everything from top to bottom new except the heads themselves. New Kellogg crankshaft, Oliver rods, Diamond pistons, custom cams, oversized valves, on and on. Once it's put in locally I still have a lot of work to do myself to get it ready to go, but considering it's been down since 2007 a lot of progress recently.

Oversized valves, Oliver rods, cams, Diamond pistons, sounds spicy :-D

Where's the SlowSVT modified windage tray, high capacity coolant and oiling system? :nonono:

.........hay, I said it "wasn't necissary" but I didn't say not to do it! :rolling:

oke:

 

[DevilSun]

Oh, it's got all that...and a bag of chips Melling HV oil pump billet gears, EMP Stewart Warner upgraded water pump, Canton Road Race pan plus full flow -10AN oiling system (7qt pan + 2 qt full flow filter + lines + setrab cooler), 3V windage tray (builder recommended over other choices), LFP road race radiator, Gords HE...like I said, on and on hehe. I said this thread was a help after all, the only thing it didn't help was my wallet but that was bound to happen.

 

[SlowSVT]

Oh, it's got all that...and a bag of chips Melling HV oil pump billet gears, EMP Stewart Warner upgraded water pump, Canton Road Race pan plus full flow -10AN oiling system (7qt pan + 2 qt full flow filter + lines + setrab cooler), 3V windage tray (builder recommended over other choices), LFP road race radiator, Gords HE...like I said, on and on hehe. I said this thread was a help after all, the only thing it didn't help was my wallet but that was bound to happen.

You've pulled out all the stops on this one. I'm very impressed. I don't think there are too many mod motors that will handle the abuse with one will. Did you stroke the motor? What PTW clearance are you running on the Diamonds?

 

[DevilSun]

I figured the car and myself deserved it so it can safely be abused, but in a fun way..and only done this once Stock stroke, plan to spin it higher if I can figure out what I'm doing pulley wise. Detailed specs and clearances like that (PTW) I'm not sure of as that was all up to John, not even sure of cam specs yet; just feels great to have it at this point - three years of staring at a busted down snake in my garage got depressing

 

[SlowSVT]

I figured the car and myself deserved it so it can safely be abused, but in a fun way..and only done this once Stock stroke, plan to spin it higher if I can figure out what I'm doing pulley wise. Detailed specs and clearances like that (PTW) I'm not sure of as that was all up to John, not even sure of cam specs yet; just feels great to have it at this point - three years of staring at a busted down snake in my garage got depressing

Long builds are nothing new to me (and how :nonono. Sometimes it's good to step away for a while. Being on this site and get you pumped wanting to wrench on the car. This thing is soooooooo worth it though. Imagine modding a VW bug or a 57 Chevy? :xpl: These things raise your adrenalin just sitting in them and it's a drop dead gorgeous car :bowdown:

Good move sticking with the stock stroke. Seems counter intuitive to building a stout motor like this only to saddle it with an arm as long as a Harley Davidson :dw: Did you stick with the standard ARP rod bolts or did you upgrade to the 3.5 alloy bolts? How bout valve springs?

Here is a valve spring chart Ed Eschaider was kind enough to send me.

These are a list valve springs that can be adapted to our heads with little or no modification (basically opening up the valve string pockets). Stay away form the bottom 2 or the drive chains and valve train will hate you.

This and the 3.5 alloy rod bolts and I say you could spin that puppy up to 9 grand and it will "hold" (not that your gunna be a friend to your bottom end mind you :cuss.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Hey SlowSVT you got a link to the 3.5 alloy rod bolts you're talking about?? I might upgrade my rod bolts on my Manley billet I-beam rods now that they are out and apart.. :beer: thanks buddy.

 

[SlowSVT]

Hey SlowSVT you got a link to the 3.5 alloy rod bolts you're talking about?? I might upgrade my rod bolts on my Manley billet I-beam rods now that they are out and apart.. :beer: thanks buddy.

ARP2000®: ARP2000 is an alloy steel that can be safely heat treated to a higher level, producing a greater strength material than 8740. While 8740 and ARP2000 share similar characteristics – ARP2000 is capable of achieving a clamp load at 220,000 psi. ARP2000 is used widely in short track and drag racing as an up-grade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum rods. Stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem, providing care is taken during installation.



ARP3.5® (AMS5844): While similar to Inconel 718, these super-alloys are found in many jet engine and aerospace applications where heat and stress attack the life of critical components. The high cobalt content of this alloy, while expensive, delivers a material with superior fatigue characteristics and typically tensile strength in the 260,000-280,000 psi range. The immunity to hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion of these materials is a significant design consideration. These materials are primarily used in connecting rods where extremely high loads, high RPM and endurance are important factors – Formula 1, NASCAR and IRL applications.

3.5 alloy not cheap, you’re looking at $600 more paycheck. This is for when you'll be expecting to really twist this engine hard. I'm sure the ARP 2000 are good for 7-8 grand (it really depends on how long you "hold it") . 3/8" bolts for the Oliver rods only but they did that for a reason. Some other aftermarket rods use 7/16" but your taking away material from the rod. This alloy is certainly stronger then the rod. Either way bottom end failures in this engine is almost unheard of unless something else “hastens” that process :nonono:

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Gotcha thank you for all that.. I'm pretty sure my rod bolts are just fine.. I have the ARP catalog and I looked them up I wasn't quite sure though if you were talking about a different rod bolt.. I'll have to ask my builder which ones I have. :beer: