c6 zo6 vs. ford gt

[fordification]

I'd really be curious to see what a race prepped n/a modular engine can do, that could qualify for lemans. 4.6 cobra can hit 690hp w/blower. I think the potential's there.

 

[fastenuff]

To fast muff:

I think you're a undercover LS1techy. I let it slide once, but since you think your so much smarter than everyone else and come here looking for a argument (coming from the Ford guy who does nothing but bash Ford):

1) A 427 Cobra would wax any street vette made until the ZR-1, and even then we could still argue. Nice job bringing out the bullshit drive it in the rain argument. Just means that someone can't drive ;-)...it's still a street/production car and would wax any vette in the rain from the same era. Pointless attempt...

2) How about buying a Z06 and a Ford GT and putting the same amount of money in mods on both...the Z will always be cheaper, thats it. It's quickly becoming the copout argument in car comparisons everywhere. Imagine this: A small minority of people have big bucks and dont care what car is cheaper vs the majority of budget bang for the buck racers (which both cars in question here fit the former party).

Whats so "superior intelligent" funny is that you make the saved cash to mods comparison for a Z06 against a Ford GT, then neglect to make the same comparison when you think it should be compared to the GT500 with a 41,000 MSRP. We all know what the outcome would be. Thanks for bringing up the 80,000 saved cash to mods argument twice in your short stay here Cptn-Obvious.

3) You followed Trans Am closely...yet according to you Ford was always behind the leaders. You must have slept through the 1970 season, when they WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP, never mind the nail biter that was most of the 69 season.

I don't think you follow shit. Open a history book and see, which is all you've done in here anyways and can't even get it right.

And when did Ford field a works team in Can Am, or GM for that matter? McLaren and Porsche bitch slapped the competition from 69 on, again whats your point with Can Am here? That McLaren had a GM engine? BFD. I can pull out shit on Ford engines putting GM powerplants to shame in the golden era of racing.

Can Am wasn't even big back in the day, it was a short lived series (thank you, SCCA :kaboom: ) now getting a lot of modern attention cause of the ridiculous power to weight these cars had. Since you were there/follow it closely or whatever, I'll ask you a obvious question. What was special about the 69 Can Am season?

Enlighten me with some more history book wisdoms Ford fan.

Finally, Loud mouth responds.
Just a couple of quick points the Can Am for starters, ran from 66 through 74. That comment was a response to all of the record setting you mentioned in you original post. As for LS1 guy well to set the record straight I have owned and souped up more fords than chevrolets why, they are cheaper. On the cobra isssue if you are stupid enough to drive an AC cobra in the rain and say that is a cop out it is very clear you are probably "strong like bull and dumb like 2X4."
Now the 1969 Can Am Team Mclaren won 11 of 11 races. By the way the reason the Can Am was cancelled, which I might add you are partially correct was due to the SCCA but more importantly due to the cars becoming to viscious to drive and too many driver dying, Mclaren, Reveson, Donahue. If you would have read my first post and understood it, I did not say ford fielded a Can AM entry, go back and read it and relax, I said the Mclarens were powered or running chevrolets, I wonder why?????
Lets review your statement about the 1970 Trans-Am

Qualified Finish

Laguna Seca Pole 1st
Lime Rock 3rd 1st
Briar 2nd 13th (lost hood)
Mid Ohio 3rd 1st
Bridgehampton 3rd 3rd
Donnybrooke 2nd 13th (collapsed suspension)
Road America 2nd 5th
St. Jovit Pole 3rd
Watkins Glen Pole 4th
Kent Pole DNS
Riverside Pole DNS

For the record from conception of the Trans Am or 1966 through 2004 Ford won 9 manufacturer champions Chevrolet won 15. Hmmmmm seems like ford really dominated the Trans Am. I think you said in one of your earilier tantrums " Ford's Records, Internationally, In Formula One., Sports Car Racing, World Rally, Btcc, Drag Racing, Indy Cars - Is Untouched By Any American Manufacturer. The Cars Gm Touts As Their Champions."

One more thing, review your knowledge base regarding the ZL1 corvettes as I am sure you know only 2 were built, I am sure you will have some mis informed response to the ZL1's also.

You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. But you are fun. :burn:

 

[BmoseleyINC]

What would you consider a bloodbath? And for comparison, an old Z06 would also kill a '03 cobra on a road course, so saying a new GT beat it by 5 sec is no big deal. It's been posted here many times before, many people have gone 11.8-9 bone stock in the old Z's. Thats crazy fast for a car that has 350-360 rwhp. Do not underestimate the potential of the new Z on a road course, the old ones were VERY fast for how much power they had and suspension setup. Now imagine a lot more power, bigger brakes, better suspension and bigger tires.

I have seen a properly driven one hang all over a Gen III viper which out powers one by 100rwhp, and everyone knows that vipers are bada$$ on a road course and are proven winners. I'm not saying the vette will win, which I don't, but to be all c*cky and say it will be a bloodbath is crazy.

You didnt read my post correctly..The course was TINY, I cant remember how big it was, but everyone that tested said 5 seconds on that course is insane to beat an 03 cobra by...

I do say it will be a bloodbath. The gt is purpose built for that, the handling is incredible. and it out powers it by a huge margin... There is simply no way the new z06 is gonna hang close to a gt on a road course. The gt is gonna pull it in the corners ,and in the straights.

It's my opinion, based on facts I know.. IF they test them, and it's very close, I will concede my statement....I do not think it's going to happen. Im not trying to be ****y, I just strongly believe this.

 

[GTSpartan]

You didnt read my post correctly..The course was TINY, I cant remember how big it was, but everyone that tested said 5 seconds on that course is insane to beat an 03 cobra by...

I do say it will be a bloodbath. The gt is purpose built for that, the handling is incredible. and it out powers it by a huge margin... There is simply no way the new z06 is gonna hang close to a gt on a road course. The gt is gonna pull it in the corners ,and in the straights.

It's my opinion, based on facts I know.. IF they test them, and it's very close, I will concede my statement....I do not think it's going to happen. Im not trying to be ****y, I just strongly believe this.

A current Z will put up similar numbers interms of handling as the GT. The new Z is basically a road going C6R with race proven engineering and very light weight. If you go to top gears web site a 400 hp 360 Modena CS ran within .4 of the GT on their road coarse which is amazing considering the power disadvatage. Now, I'm not trying to bench race, I'm just making a point that hp is not the end all in RR and if you have a properly setup car and light weight you can make up for it. I guarantee GM has tested the crap out of this thing on the Nurburgring (?sp) and will come ready to play.

 

[50 BMG]

Just alittle info, I believe there is article somewhere that has been posted here or on other car forums of a shelby cobra against an L-88 vette. The vette beat it strait up. Not starting anything or getting in this argument just putting to rest some of this fighting.

Love to see it, cause the 427 was the fastest production car till 1970 and the fastest 0-100-0 production car for decades. Ya it had a crappy coeffieient of drag compared to a 68 vette, yet was still faster in acceleration and top end while weighing 2282 pounds. The 68 L88 weighs over 3400 pounds, so handing arguments are clearly out the window/no need to even look. The 427 was rated at 405 hp ( :sleeping: ) with the L88 rated at 430 hp ( :sleeping: ).

.......

Fu(kin please, I just looked the article up. It's in Corvette Fever, January 1993. pages 29-33 written by Tom Shaw, "Clash of the Titans". Thats far enough for me to look into it but lets see how unbiased it is...

which took under 2 minuets to get some dirt on it:

L88's came with 3.24 gears stock, the one in the article had 4.56's and ran a 11.8 in the 1/4 mile. Probably had cheater tires too cause those little stock F70's it came with would be blown off, espeically with 4.56's.

Here is a little back in the day info. 1) 427 Cobras ran 12.4 bone stock including tires. 2) L88 Vettes ran 13.56 bone stock including tires.
So I'm dying to know, was it beat straight up on interior quality and a popularity vote from people with a bowtie on their panties?





Is the L-88 even production? Didn't they only make like 50 of them?
Ya, just looked that up too:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/l88/l88prod.html

Well, model year 1969 -might- qualify as production with over 100 units built for the year. Even if it is faster than the -production- (i.e. over 1000 427 Cobras in 66-67) AC Cobra, which I still HIGHLY doubt, it's ganked by a non production 427 S/C Cobra or a 427 cammer Cobra, both which made up more than .0030 of total production.

And I know your not trying to start anything, but its a bullshit article.

 

[50 BMG]

If you would have read my first post and understood it, I did not say ford fielded a Can AM entry, go back and read it and relax.

I know what you said, it's not difficult to understand. What seems to be difficult to comprehend is that I'm moving past your obvious observations that have little use in being read or reread in the first place.

What was your point with Ford and Can Am? That GM was so much better at it? That seems to be your point unless your superior intelligence has a hidden agenda through internet text.

Which is why I brought up when did either of them field a works team because your comments about McLaren with a GM engine don't mean s-h-i-t at all.

Ford had a engine that won every race in F1 for almost 10 years, the PREMIER worldwide racing competition. And so what, big ****in deal, it was a Ford powerplant used by another privateer or factory team. Again, it don't mean shit. McLaren/GM is a fart stain on 1 page of a racing history book.

I said the Mclarens were powered or running chevrolets, I wonder why????? .

Cause they are cheaper and more available. 350 Chevy small block still has the best aftermarket parts availability if I'm not mistaken. Nothing new.

For the record from conception of the Trans Am or 1966 through 2004 Ford won 9 manufacturer champions Chevrolet won 15

Great, thanks!
now....
remember who said this?

funny I followed those circuits pretty close and cannot think of a ford in the winners circle

Lmfao, Done.

Hmmmmm seems like ford really dominated the Trans Am..

I don't think anyone in here said Ford did, know I didn't.

I think you said in one of your earilier tantrums " Ford's Records, Internationally, In Formula One., Sports Car Racing, World Rally, Btcc, Drag Racing, Indy Cars - Is Untouched By Any American Manufacturer. The Cars Gm Touts As Their Champions.".

Don't -think- what other people say, look it up and quote it. It was in roadside pub. I said the following well over a month ago:
"As far as production cars are concerned, in the modern era GM is considerably ahead of Ford.

"As far as modern worldwide racing is concerned, Ford is leaps and bounds ahead of GM."

Which makes me think even more that your a new troll over here or a existing troll under a new user name.

One more thing, review your knowledge base regarding the ZL1 corvettes as I am sure you know only 2 were built, I am sure you will have some mis informed response to the ZL1's also.

WTF are you talking about? I haven't said shit about a ZL1.

You are so full of shit your eyes are brown.

:bored:

Ya, and its -really- showing. You haven't proved anything wrong that I've typed. Whats funny is you shutting yourself down on the TransAm bullshit.

Fight on fast muff.

 

[GTSpartan]

Love to see it, cause the 427 was the fastest production car till 1970 and the fastest 0-100-0 production car for decades. Ya it had a crappy coeffieient of drag compared to a 68 vette, yet was still faster in acceleration and top end while weighing 2282 pounds. The 68 L88 weighs over 3400 pounds, so handing arguments are clearly out the window/no need to even look. The 427 was rated at 405 hp ( :sleeping: ) with the L88 rated at 430 hp ( :sleeping: ).

.......

Fu(kin please, I just looked the article up. It's in Corvette Fever, January 1993. pages 29-33 written by Tom Shaw, "Clash of the Titans". Thats far enough for me to look into it but lets see how unbiased it is...

which took under 2 minuets to get some dirt on it:

L88's came with 3.24 gears stock, the one in the article had 4.56's and ran a 11.8 in the 1/4 mile. Probably had cheater tires too cause those little stock F70's it came with would be blown off, espeically with 4.56's.

Here is a little back in the day info. 1) 427 Cobras ran 12.4 bone stock including tires. 2) L88 Vettes ran 13.56 bone stock including tires.
So I'm dying to know, was it beat straight up on interior quality and a popularity vote from people with a bowtie on their panties?





Is the L-88 even production? Didn't they only make like 50 of them?
Ya, just looked that up too:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/l88/l88prod.html

Well, model year 1969 -might- qualify as production with over 100 units built for the year. Even if it is faster than the -production- (i.e. over 1000 427 Cobras in 66-67) AC Cobra, which I still HIGHLY doubt, it's ganked by a non production 427 S/C Cobra or a 427 cammer Cobra, both which made up more than .0030 of total production.

And I know your not trying to start anything, but its a bullshit article.

It's a much older article and I wish I would have saved it. It was probably 25-30 yrs old and was in black and white. Both cars were only allowed carb and timing work and slicks. I swear the vette beat it, not by much though. The article may have been done by hot rod and I'm am trying like mad to track it down.

 

[Formula51]

I do say it will be a bloodbath. The gt is purpose built for that, the handling is incredible. and it out powers it by a huge margin... There is simply no way the new z06 is gonna hang close to a gt on a road course. The gt is gonna pull it in the corners ,and in the straights.

Really BMose? A bloodbath? I think the GT will likely win, but I dont think it will be a bloodbath. That might be wishful thinking. We have to wait and see, but I think that comment might be out of line.

The midship Vette design is so successful that a lot of Vette owners dont even want a midengine design. With the Vettes perfect weight balance the benefits would be marginal on a track. They are certainly not worth the cost. Afterall, once the center of gravity is in the middle, ITS IN THE MIDDLE!

 

[notoriousdad]

I just think it's really funny tha tthe gm guys actually think the new z is goign to be able to hang on a road course :lol: :lol: :lol: The gt is a purpose built road-race inspired car.. Let me put it to you this way, on the same SMALL road course. Muscle mustangs ran a new gt vs. an 03 cobra. THe gt ran over 5 seconds quicker then the 2003 cobra each lap. TO quote the mag on this small of a course "that is insane". With drag radials alone, they dipped into the 10's....

I really cant wait t osee the first gt vs. 05 zo6 comparision, I really cant...it's gonna be a blood bath.

CAN I HEAR AN AMEM FROM THE CONGREGATION???????????? :rockon:

 

[Formula51]

From Top Gear's test:
Ford GT:1.21.9
C6 Corvette:1.26.8

Heres the thread about it:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113428&highlight=top+gear

Now I can sorta consider 4.9 seconds on a roughly minute and a half lap time track a bloodbath. I still am uncertain as to wether it was a base C6 or a Z51 optioned Vette, but for the sake of argument lets assume it was a base C6. The Z51 optioned C6 with its bigger brakes, better tranny gear ratios, performance shocks, etc would do EVEN BETTER. The C5 Z06 would do EVEN BETTER than the Z51. The C6 Z06 will do EVEN BETTER than C5 Z06. 5 seconds fades away to nothing very very quickly!

Believe what you want, but prepare yourself for a shock, just on that off chance that the Z06 give the GT a run for its money!

 

[Formula51]

I thought yall might enjoy this pic. Not sure who took it but my guess is its for a magazine article that isnt too far away.

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34544

Most of the Vette guys seam to think the GT will win in acceleration and the Z on the road course.

For reference, the C5 Z06 was equal to or better than the GT in 60-0mph braking, depending on which source you look at. GT at around 110ft and the C5 Z at 104-107ft from what I have seen. The C5 Z had I think 12.7 inch rotors and a comparable weight to the new Z that has 14 inch rotors. What the Z lacks in power it will make up for in braking.

Any doubt about the bloodbath yet? Maybe just a little?

 

[Formula51]

Check out this pick, part way down the screen. No love for the GT at Gerogia Tech (GT)!

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34544&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

 

[COBRA32]

Just remember that the only way GM could win at Lemans was to race one class down from the Top. Ford won Lemans in the very top class of cars. Also if you include Mercury, Jaguar and Panoz which are all powered by Ford engines. Ford has won more Manufacturers’ Championship than Chevrolet. Ford has 9, Lincoln Mercury has 4, Panoz has 1 and Jaguar has 4 also. 9+4+4+1 =18 this is greater than Chevrolet’s 15. Which brand's motor has won the last 6 Manufacturers’ Championships, it was not a Chevy I can tell you that. Also tell me chevy fans which Trans Am engine has scored more racing victories in one season it happen in 2001 not 1969.

 

[COBRA32]

how can you consider it a bloodbath, Because in a 16 lap race the vette would be lapped, so just think about how many times the vette would be lapped in a 100 lap race.

 

[GTSpartan]

From Top Gear's test:
Ford GT:1.21.9
C6 Corvette:1.26.8

Heres the thread about it:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113428&highlight=top+gear

Now I can sorta consider 4.9 seconds on a roughly minute and a half lap time track a bloodbath. I still am uncertain as to wether it was a base C6 or a Z51 optioned Vette, but for the sake of argument lets assume it was a base C6. The Z51 optioned C6 with its bigger brakes, better tranny gear ratios, performance shocks, etc would do EVEN BETTER. The C5 Z06 would do EVEN BETTER than the Z51. The C6 Z06 will do EVEN BETTER than C5 Z06. 5 seconds fades away to nothing very very quickly!

Believe what you want, but prepare yourself for a shock, just on that off chance that the Z06 give the GT a run for its money!

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Z-51 because I don't think it had the drilled brakes. That was also the test where the C6 lost to a NSX in a drag race. Even the Z-51 won't be in the same league as the new Z.

 

[Formula51]

Well its also no secret that the guy that drives for Top Gear, hates Corvettes. Not an excuse, just a fact. It makes you doubt that he rung out all of its potential. I would bet he spent a lot more seat time in the other cars that he "likes"! Get ready for a battle, people are predicting sub 100ft 60-0mph braking for the new Z!!!!

 

[COBRA32]

The guy that hates the Vettes is not the one that drives the cars around the track. They have a professional driver for doing the track test of the cars. He is no different than you guys that do all the hating on the Ford GT just because it’s a Ford and not you’re beloved Vette. The Vette had the Z51 suspension because they complained about the suspension rough ride and their magazine test stated the car had the Z51 suspension. He may hate the Vette but considering that he has driven more cars and all the Super Cars I would think his judgment on a particular car would be more valid than someone who has not driven both. Your comparisons do not work; the GT is in a different league than the Vette. A Vette and Viper works just as a Ferrari and GT works as comparisons. Its like if you gave a person a choice between a Ferrari and a Corvette told them you could have either one and both where the same price, 99% of the people would chose the Ferrari not because its faster than the Vette they would chose the Ferrari just because it is one of the coolest cars out there. If the Vette is as quick as you guys think, which it all just speculation until the real thing hits the streets, all Ford has to do is turn up the boost and its bye bye Z06. Not to far back Shelby said that if anyone gets to close to running with the GT they can crank it up to over 700 hp if need be.

 

[COBRA32]

Any way the GT wins hands down because it does one thing that the new Z06 does not do and thats top out over 200 mph. It alot cooler to say it goes over 200 than to say it almost goes 200.

 

[Swing]

would you guys rather have a ford GT or 3-4 z06's (depending how bad dealership is trying to rip you off on your GT). To me its a toss up, 3 different color z06's? thats nice =X

 

[GTSpartan]

Any way the GT wins hands down because it does one thing that the new Z06 does not do and thats top out over 200 mph. It alot cooler to say it goes over 200 than to say it almost goes 200.

Thats only cool on paper, you will never go that fast, nor need to, even in a race. Hell, my car will hit 220+ probably, but I'll NEVER even get close.