codes 2104 and 2112...bad ECM or ??

[hrtatak]

Sorry ahead of time for the long read..........

I recently purchased a 07 GT500 from a local bank. It has a built motor, CNC ported heads, Comp Cams, and a KB 2.8H on it. The car ran fine when I test drove it.

After I got it home I decided to clean the battery connections since the positive cable was corroded worse than I have ever seen. I figured that I might as well put a new battery in too. I removed the battery and took it to my work truck to turn in when I got the new battery.

Then later I realized that I had left the windows down so I hooked my trickle charger to the battery cables to roll up the windows and I know I turned the key all the way to the run position.....yeah I know.....dumb move. :bash:

I put the new battery in the next day, start the car, and instantly get the failsafe mode warning and all the car will do is idle.

I purchased a SCT handheld since one didn't come with the car. It tells me that I have codes of P2104 -Throttle Actuator Control System Forced Idle and P2112 - Throttle Actuator Control System Stuck Closed. They come back instantly if you clear them, even if you don't start the car. The TPS voltage is 1.28 and swings to 4.45 if you step on the throttle and the plates do move from closed to open.

So....what have I done ? My 1st thought was that I had lost the tune. I figured the cables were nasty because the previous owner had been told not to remove them or the tune will be lost. Is that even a possibility ? I did load a tune from the SCT handheld and it made no difference. Should I load the car up and take it to the local Ford dealer and get it reflashed ?....Or....did I fry the ECM when I used the battery charger to roll up the windows ? All the reading that I have done seems to be pointing to a bad ECM.

Any ideas ? Thanks !!!

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Sorry ahead of time for the long read..........

I recently purchased a 07 GT500 from a local bank. It has a built motor, CNC ported heads, Comp Cams, and a KB 2.8H on it. The car ran fine when I test drove it.

After I got it home I decided to clean the battery connections since the positive cable was corroded worse than I have ever seen. I figured that I might as well put a new battery in too. I removed the battery and took it to my work truck to turn in when I got the new battery.

Then later I realized that I had left the windows down so I hooked my trickle charger to the battery cables to roll up the windows and I know I turned the key all the way to the run position.....yeah I know.....dumb move. :bash:

I put the new battery in the next day, start the car, and instantly get the failsafe mode warning and all the car will do is idle.

I purchased a SCT handheld since one didn't come with the car. It tells me that I have codes of P2104 -Throttle Actuator Control System Forced Idle and P2112 - Throttle Actuator Control System Stuck Closed. They come back instantly if you clear them, even if you don't start the car. The TPS voltage is 1.28 and swings to 4.45 if you step on the throttle and the plates do move from closed to open.

So....what have I done ? My 1st thought was that I had lost the tune. I figured the cables were nasty because the previous owner had been told not to remove them or the tune will be lost. Is that even a possibility ? I did load a tune from the SCT handheld and it made no difference. Should I load the car up and take it to the local Ford dealer and get it reflashed ?....Or....did I fry the ECM when I used the battery charger to roll up the windows ? All the reading that I have done seems to be pointing to a bad ECM.

Any ideas ? Thanks !!!

It almost sounds like a bad servo motor and the spring that controls the throttle body are fouled up. I realize the car was fine before but those still could have been a problem and then with the battery disconnect etc. etc.

I think I can help. Give me a call tomorrow and maybe we can figure it out.

I don't think your ECM is bad but you never know.

Van
Revan Racing
561-445-7702

 

[hrtatak]

I will call you tomorrow. Thanks !!

 

[95PGTTech]

Tow it to Ford. Have the "as-built" PCM program put into it. Purchase a new SCT tuner from a local, reputable tuner and have the car custom dyno tuned.

ALWAYS make sure the SCT tuner and custom tuned are guaranteed provided with ANY modified vehicle!!!

 

[hrtatak]

A little update.....I found a copy of the DV test for the ETC online. I got through some of the measurements but decided to go to the house when a thunderstorm hit. I figured I would rather ride it out in the house instead of the shop.

One thing that I found was that the resistance for the TACM is 2 ohms and it is supposed to be between 1 - 900 ohms. Perhaps that is the problem, I would sure think that you wouldn't want it to be that close to one of the extremes.

I will call you in awhile Van.



95PGTTech....I didn't get the handheld since the car had been repo'd by a bank. I didn't feel it would be too nice of me to contact the previous owner since he lost several nice vehicles. I have already purchased a SCT TSX and intend to have it dyno-tuned when I get it running properly.

 

[tktlwyr]

I've got the exact same issue right now with the same codes. I've got a former Ford tech that's going to check it in the coming days but here's some more info.

If I clear the codes, the car will not respond. I have to clear the codes and re-flash the PCM in order for the car to restart and be drivable. The problem can reoccur the next day or in two weeks.

I'll follow up with you when my tech figures it out.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

I've got the exact same issue right now with the same codes. I've got a former Ford tech that's going to check it in the coming days but here's some more info.

If I clear the codes, the car will not respond. I have to clear the codes and re-flash the PCM in order for the car to restart and be drivable. The problem can reoccur the next day or in two weeks.

I'll follow up with you when my tech figures it out.

Lawyers, they never listen............:beer:

 

[hrtatak]

Thanks for the call today Van. I am gonna try a new TACM.

tktlwyr...let me know what you guys find and I will let you know how mine turns out.

 

[tktlwyr]

Will do.

 

[ElLobo11]

Were either of you able to get to the bottom of this?

I have the same 2104/2112 problem. I actually replaced the entire throttlebody assembly (about $300), but the problem came back a couple weeks later.

I want to flash the ECM to the latest update, but I still have to figure out how to do that. The dealer wants $105 to do it. If I can't do that on my own, I'll probably just take it to the dealer for a diagnostic.

Any thoughts?

 

[tktlwyr]

Mine is still in the shop. We found some other issues with the car that we're addressing so I haven't been able to put any miles on it yet.

 

[hrtatak]

My KB throttle body now has a new TPS and TACM and the car still isn't fixed. In fact; it is worse.

The battery was low, so I pulled the cables and put it on the charger for about 90 minutes. When I went back down to the garage and put the cables on, the car starting freaking out when I turned the key to the run position. Feeble honking of the horn, radio going nuts, several relays clicking, and the lights were flashing. I tried rolling down the window and it started down and when it got halfway, it started rolling back up. It did this several times. If I have the key in the accessory position, then the windows work fine. Of course; it doesn't start. It didn't even turn over.

There is a heck of a current draw from something even when the key off. I guess the next step is to hook up the multimeter and start pulling fuses.

To be continued...................

:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

 

[UnleashedBeast]

When I had those codes, my car had a faulty Throttle Body. The throttle stop that limits how far the blades can close failed/broke. If the Throttle position sensor doesn't reflect the proper voltage (blade opening) at start up, you get codes 2104 and 2112, the car will go into fault limp mode, and won't idle greater than 1,000 rpm.

Either your throttle stop requires adjustment, or replacement. See picture below.

The circle shows the entire adjustable throttle stop. The arrow show you the spring loaded tip inside of the threaded throttle stop shaft. If this isn't adjusted properly, your car will throw both of the codes listed above and will not run correctly.

Here is a guide that can help you adjust your throttle stop.

BBK Throttle Body install instructions

CHECKING TPS VOLTAGE

To check the TPS voltage you must have a DIGITAL voltmeter.

1. Re-assemble and install the stock throttle body.

2. LEAVE THE THROTTLE BODY MOTOR UNPLUGGED (the small connector on the driver side of the throttle body).

3. Ground the black wire of your meter and poke the probe of the red wire on the meter into the YELLOW wire of the TPS sensor which is the bottom wire on the plug located on the passenger side of the throttle body. You DO NOT need to break the wire to read voltage. The best way to probe the yellow wire is to poke the probe into the plastic harness plug (while it’s plugged in to the TPS). You will need to penetrate the blue insulator the goes around the end of the yellow wire (hidden inside the harness plug) to reach the bare metal end of the yellow wire. Touch the probe to the bare metal end of the yellow wire.

4. Turn the ignition to the ON position but do not start the car.

5. Read the meter display. You should see a voltage reading between 1.19-1.31 volts. Write the voltage down.

6. Now re-install the BBK throttle body and repeat steps 2-5.

7. If the TPS voltage on the BBK throttle body varies from the stock TPS voltage then follow the next steps to adjust the BBK to stock settings. This is easily done with the throttle body bolted to the car.

ADJUSTING TPS VOLTAGE

1. With your meter still connected, loosen the mounting screws on the TPS sensor and gently rotate it until the

2. Once the desired voltage is acheived, plug the throttle body motor in.

3. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position, then cycle the ignition key from the ON position 4 times to allow the car to "self check" the throttle body and sensors for proper operation.

If the throttle body voltage and senors are correct then the CHECK ENGINE and FAILSAFE warnings should be gone when you turn the key on for the 4th time.

 

[hrtatak]

UnleashedBeast....I followed the instructions from a video that BBK has posted on throttle bodies. However; the PDF that you posted from them doesn't tell you the correct way to adjust the TPS voltage. The 1st step that I copied below is wrong. That is how you adjust it on the old FOX body Mustangs.

ADJUSTING TPS VOLTAGE

1. With your meter still connected, loosen the mounting screws on the TPS sensor and gently rotate it until the



For the drive-by-wire cars DON"T loosen your TPS and twist it since that may damage it !!!!



Here is the way BBK says to adjust the TPS in their video.

To adjust the TPS voltage on these throttle bodies you need to remove the TACM and loosen the set screw that is in the hole just above the arrow in your drawing. Then you reassemble everything and turn the large screw in the upper part on your circle until you get the correct voltage reading. Take everything back apart and tighten the set screw and reassemble. Check your voltage again before installing the throttle body because it will change a little when you tighten the set screw(ask me how I know this :-D). Once you get the voltage correct with everything tight then install the throttle body.





Thanks for giving me this idea though......I think I may put the TACM back on the factory throttle body that I had to buy and see what happens it I try the factory unit instead of the KB. I guess I should have done that first to see what happened . :bash: Oh well.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Thanks for letting me know, I just copied and paste the information. I really did read over it at all.

Hope you get your problem corrected.

 

[hrtatak]

UnleashedBeast.....I want to THANK YOU. :beer: Your first post got me to thinking about something, so I pulled the throttle body.

When you posted the pic and the following......The arrow shows you the spring loaded tip inside of the threaded throttle stop shaft......it got me to thinking "Hey, there was no spring loaded tip on the end of the throttle stop screw." I took it back apart last nite and indeed, it isn't there.

EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWS IS JUST A GUESS ON MY PART, BUT KNOWING A VERY TINY BIT ABOUT ELECTRONICS, MAKES ME THINK I AM ON THE RIGHT PATH, SO PROCEED WITH CAUTION........:-D:-D

The factory throttle body I bought has the tip, and the spring under it is much stiffer than the throttle blade return spring. My guess is when you turn the key on, the car moves the throttle blades some and the ECM sees the rate of the voltage swing change/slow down when it parks on this stiffer spring as the throttle closes and it knows all is well in drive-by-wire land.

My TPS voltage was .796 when I first checked it. It was low because that tip is missing and let the blades close too much. I adjusted it to the correct range by threading the screw in more, but with the spring loaded tip missing the car isn't seeing the voltage swing rate change and isn't happy and instantly goes into the dreaded failsafe mode.

NOW BACK TO MORE OF THE STORY....

My car has a dent in the door from the previous owner hitting his mailbox when the throttle stuck(at least that is what he told the bank when they repo'd the car). I bet the tip and spring came off and got wedged in the gears causing the throttle to stick. I can tell he had been trying to figure out what happened and I guess he didn't notice the tip and spring falling out when he took the throttle body apart. They weren't in it when I took it apart. I am sitting at the desk that I took it apart at and have searched all over and no extra pieces are laying around.

I hope that this is the problem and finally has me headed down the right path to fix the car. I will let you all know.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I knew it was a throttle body stop failure. Replace and adjust it properly, and it will drive properly.

 

[ElLobo11]

So, in the end I wound up taking it to Ford for a $75 diagnostic. They said the problem was bad spark plugs and ignition coils. Of course, they quoted me about $1200. I did it for around $350 in parts. Funny that it takes me 2 hours to do a job that takes a Ford mechanic 6 hours...

It's been a few weeks, and so far the throttle forced close problems have not returned. The only thing still is an issue is the car still lurches forward a little after I press on the brakes. Probably need to check the pedal position sensor or the throttle stop like beast said, but I just don't have time now.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

So, in the end I wound up taking it to Ford for a $75 diagnostic. They said the problem was bad spark plugs and ignition coils. Of course, they quoted me about $1200. I did it for around $350 in parts. Funny that it takes me 2 hours to do a job that takes a Ford mechanic 6 hours...

The labor book pays them 6 hours to do it, it actually only takes the Ford mech. about the same amount of time it took you. I have an ASE certified mech. friend, and he tells me about getting paid 6-8 hours in labor to do a 2 hour job. It kind makes you feel raped if you were the paying customer.

Glad you got it repaired, although I was very surprised at what the problem was.

 

[jcthorne]

How do all 8 coil packs fail at the same time? What was wrong with the plugs?

Besides, a bad coil will not give those codes. Something else is going on. Likely the TB was stuck and got freed up during the work. Judging by the continued symptoms, its still sticking. Get the throttle stop properly set.