Listen ass, Ford was lucky they hired Alan Mullay years ago to start trimming the fat or else they would be in the same boat with GM and Chrysler. I dont care for most of GMs cars or trucks but I appreciate a good engine design like anybody else. Just because you are pissed that Ford screwed you in 1996 with a mod motor that way underperformed the competition doesnt give you the right to be a dick. I would take a Lsx over your pos 4 valve any day of the week and at least I dont have to make excuses for the way my car performs. Now go be a ricer and rant and rave about the power and how efficient your smaller motor is.
Coyote vs ls motor's
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Listen ass, Ford was lucky they hired Alan Mullay years ago to start trimming the fat or else they would be in the same boat with GM and Chrysler. I dont care for most of GMs cars or trucks but I appreciate a good engine design like anybody else. Just because you are pissed that Ford screwed you in 1996 with a mod motor that way underperformed the competition doesnt give you the right to be a dick. I would take a Lsx over your pos 4 valve any day of the week and at least I dont have to make excuses for the way my car performs. Now go be a ricer and rant and rave about the power and how efficient your smaller motor is.
Yes Ford was lucky they hired their current CEO but how do you know exactly what goes on at Ford? I don't know what happens at GM but since they borrowed 50 billion my guess is it's not going well. My only gripe with Ford on the mod motor is they went to long not improving it. I personally love my 4.6 and so what if it has a blower it rapes every LS motor it's ever lined up against including 2010 Camaros and with a 76 mm Hellion on my stock motor this summer I'll have even more fun doing it with 800RWHP.
Wasn't this a ford site last time I checked? I am on SVTPERFORMANCE right? Well why are you people proving how arrogant you GM owners are?
I guess GM got the hint of putting a s/c on one of their V8's was because they saw the nightmare their cars had to deal with from cobra's!
On a serious note can't we just get along and agree on how gay hondas are? American muscle should stick together.
I guess GM got the hint of putting a s/c on one of their V8's was because they saw the nightmare their cars had to deal with from cobra's!
On a serious note can't we just get along and agree on how gay hondas are? American muscle should stick together.
I agree that Hondas really do suck I hate the way they sound. Even with as many as I've heard with those fart can mufflers I still wonder if they really like the way it sounds?
Well Ive followed what happened at Ford for a few years because I worked at a dealership and felt it was important to know if the brand was going bankrupt. I dont really care what happens to GM because I dont plan on buying a car for a long time and the mod motor is not easy to work on unless its basic bolt ons. Good luck with your 4.6l dohc, Most of the terminator Cobras in Sac are on there 2nd and 3rd motors because they are so tough. Hope you have a good tune on your hellion set up cause warranty doesnt cover that one.
The Cobra R had a 6spd? The Cobra R was badass, but you simply cannot dispute the advantage N/A LSX motors have always had over the N/A modulars.
If you compare the 2000 Cobra R motor to the LS6 in the C5Z, the LS6 makes more power under the curve, it's lighter, gets better gas mileage and makes similar, (01) or more power, (02-04).
I think times are changing though..:-D Ford is starting to find the true capabilities of their modular design. There is some speculation that the new 5.0L has a lot of untapped capability with fairly simple mods, of course we will have to wait to find out..
However, the current LS3 will ALWAYS be cheaper to make faster N/A. The R&D to make them fast has been around for well over a decade. Big cam, full bolt-ons and you can make upwards for 470rwhp+ Even if the new Coyote motor could achieve that it's much more expensive and time consuming to swap cams in a modular motor.
haha u are a typical gm camaro lover, chevy didnt make 400hp n/a in the camaro either UNTIL NOW 2010 and it took 6.0 liters to do it, and its a tank it weighs in @ 3,800lbs, and yeah bmw did it 7 years ago and lexus? but those are 40-70,000 cars, were talking about entry level v8 gt mustang that cost $30k that makes 400hp n/a horsepower out of 5.0 liters, cheapest 400hp car you can buy stock, it not only makes more power then dodges 5.7 liter hemi and chevys older ls1 camaro and vette motor, it makes lil more horsepower then the ls6 c5 z06 and similar horsepower as the new ls3, so ur a retard thats why every 1 is happy in ford camp and u gm guys are all pissy,
its ok dont act like 400hp is normal for chevy guys to, chevy didnt have 400hp in a camaro until now and theres plenty of corvettes before todays that only had 200-300hp as well stock did u forget that all of the 80's and 90's the corvette was only 200-350horsepower as well with 5.7 liters :bash::loser: and even the 1st z06 was only 385hp, it wasnt until chevys c5 z06 2nd run made 405hp and todays vettes, but wait those are what 50-100k cars and top end zo6's and camaro ss , now compare the shity high end camaro to a base new 2011 gt, forget comparing the gt lets compare the shelby to the camaro oh wait thats because now its reverse the camaro is slower and heavy tank we have to compare the mustang to vettes now instead of the ugly tank slowmaro
Camaro hasn't had 400 hp until now have you been living in a cave? :lol: Ever heard of the muscle car era of the 60's, with things such as the Yenko camaro, camaro ss, and the z28 which had a 5.0 in it even had over 400 hp and that was 40+ years ago. :lol1: Also you have to remember the ls motor is not a Chevy motor it's a GM motor. And GM put the ls6 and Ls2 motors in a lot of vehicles such as the ssr, gto, trailblazer, corvette, and cadillac.
Quit swinging from the Ford nut. I'm not talking about LS motors. I was actually defending the Mustang against the comparison with the M5 and IS-F.
Not comparing cars I was comparing motors. GM had a 5.0 in the 69 z28 camaro that made over 400 hp is that a more fair comparison. :shrug: :rolling:
Wow your real smart on the internet putting down the cars you work on. Did it ever occure to you if you tell someone Fords suck then they might not consider purchasing one and if no one buys Fords anymore then you'll be out of a job? Your right about alot of cobras being on their second or third motor but those cars are also making more power than any stock LS motor would hold too. As far as warranty goes I am the second owner and never had one to begin with. Lastly of course it will have a good tune I don't care if its a hand built ferrari motor nothing is going to last long on boost with a bad tune.
Instead of 16 pushrods, it has 4 cams, 32 hydraulic lash adjusters, 32 springs, 32 roller rocker followers, 4-6 tensioners, 8 guides, 4 timing chains (2 of them the length of a football field), .... need I go on?
That's not including cam phasers, sliding tappets and pivot pins, oil feed, etc. for VVT, and misc stuff like runner control butterflies that you never see on a pushrod engine.
Still think it's less moving parts?
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The chevy 302 was rated at 290 is just speculation that it made around 400hp and Ford had the boss 302 with almost identical output.
The 5.7 ls6 makes 405 hp how does that fit into your equation. You need to understand that the ls3 heads are practically big block heads. With heads like that your motor loses velocity on the bottom end. You need cubic inches to increase your low end torque to keep gas mileage, the bump in cubic inches and vvt is just for gas mileage purposes. The 10 cubic inches will not have much effect on peak hp.
Ok I look under the hood of 98% of cars and I don't see them making 400+ hp and getting 28+ mpg. And if they are making 400+ hp and maintaining good gas mileage chances are they are doing it by force induction not n/a. Maybe the ohc motors of today are better in some aspects than older technology push rod motors, but better than the lsx motors give me a break. :lol1:
No it was not speculation it was proven. You need to do some research, on when and why GM was grossly underrating their motors.
I was refering to the five speed in a GT Mustang because someone else was refering to fuel economy between Mustangs and Camaros.
This motor was made for trans am racing and thats why it was built that way but who really cares what happened in 69. A purpose built 302 can easily make over 400 hp. Also what Ls motor gets 28 MPGs? No body would ever make fun of an LS motor if you weren't spitting out crap like this.
LS3 is a great engine, the 5.0 looks like it will be a great engine as well.
What really matters here...is the new GT going to be faster than the competition? In my experience with my bolt-on 07 GT which has probably a tick over 300whp, I would have to say yes. The 2011 GTs should put down roughly 350 whp? I mean I have ran many SRT-8s stock and modded (very lightly)and have won(vids to prove). I have not raced a new SS camaro but I have had VERY close races with 6spd LS2 GTOs (some wins/losses). Id imagine my car with another 50-60 hp should really get it out front.
unfortunatley the almighty LS3 goes in something else called the corvette....
What really matters here...is the new GT going to be faster than the competition? In my experience with my bolt-on 07 GT which has probably a tick over 300whp, I would have to say yes. The 2011 GTs should put down roughly 350 whp? I mean I have ran many SRT-8s stock and modded (very lightly)and have won(vids to prove). I have not raced a new SS camaro but I have had VERY close races with 6spd LS2 GTOs (some wins/losses). Id imagine my car with another 50-60 hp should really get it out front.
unfortunatley the almighty LS3 goes in something else called the corvette....
hrmm, I did a 5500 mile road trip this year (las vegas - GA (some driving around) and back). Average mpg was 28.6. That was with an LS6.
I did work at a dealership but not anymore. You say those cars were making more power than a stock ls would hold too? your right, but those mod motors also had cobra cranks, forged rods and they still blew up. Lets not forget the head problems the cobras had as well that will plague them down the road. I agree that nothing will last with a bad tune forced induction or NA. Look I was a diehard Mustang fan from the time I was in high school to a couple years ago. I still like the mustang thats why im on a mustang site I just dont agree with the direction ford went in 1996 with the engine. I like the simple ls motors because they are easy to work on and ultimately cheaper to build because parts interchange with ease. The biggest gripe I had of Ford when I worked there is how often they change there mind. Take the explorer for instance, pretty much the same motor from the time they first came out but they changed the air filter design at least 10 times. Round, square, rectangular short, rectangular long, conical, oval its a damn air filter but im sure they spent millions of dollars testing each one.
If its all in the motor then why do the GM trucks not do any better than other brand trucks. My best friend had a Silverado with a 5.3 and it got worse mileage than his built cutlass. Same thing with a friend at work he tows his 02 z28 with his dads 1500 silverado and it gets worse mileage than my f-250 5.4 motor towing my Cobra and that truck has a 6.0. He's just like you guys thinks an LS motor is better than everything and nothing compares. He bragged about the gas mileage in his camaro when it was stock and when we compared mileage in the trucks he realized that there was more to mileage than just motors. Comparing a light weight aerodynamic vehicle like a corvette I would say good mileage is acheivable but its not all because of the motor now be honest and tell how many rpms does your vette turn at highway speed.
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