Didn't see this one coming...

[GT Premi]

If there's no intent to sell the "halo" cars, why even bother building them at all? That development money could be better spent toward making better competition for the markets that they do choose to compete in. The "GT500s sell Focuses" mindset is outdated thinking.

Ford didn't create the Ford Performance Vehicles branch for nothing. It would be highly wasteful just to use it as [just] a marketing ploy. They have the division. They might as well stock it with a full cache of vehicles. If they made the GT500 and GT350 together, they'd still be able to sell every last one. Questioning that would be not much different than asking why they make the Focus ST and the Focus RS at the same time.

 

[DHG1078]

It's not outdated thinking. It's those models that keep the brand exciting, and help build a brand image.

Ford has a group that crunches the numbers. They did whatever study they do to see how many gt350 they think they will sell, vs gt350 and gt500 and the development costs associated with each scenario and which would give the most profit.

Selling 4k or whatever gt350 does not mean it would be 4k gt350 plus some number of gt500. The two will cannibalize each other's sales numbers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[13COBRA]

If there's no intent to sell the "halo" cars, why even bother building them at all? That development money could be better spent toward making better competition for the markets that they do choose to compete in. The "GT500s sell Focuses" mindset is outdated thinking.

Ford didn't create the Ford Performance Vehicles branch for nothing. It would be highly wasteful just to use it as [just] a marketing ploy. They have the division. They might as well stock it with a full cache of vehicles. If they made the GT500 and GT350 together, they'd still be able to sell every last one. Questioning that would be not much different than asking why they make the Focus ST and the Focus RS at the same time.

The GT350/GT500 vs. the FoST/FoRS is completely different.

The mindset is not outdated. The 05/06 FGT was not a money maker for Ford. The 17/18/19 FGT will not be a money maker for Ford. The 13/14 GT500 was not a money maker for Ford. Etc etc etc.

The money is in truck sales, followed by car sales. Anything Ford can do to strengthen their brand name and expand their cash cow products, they're going to do.

I advertise Fiestas and Focus' losing money. I typically sell them to kids going to college or for commuter cars...THEN the parents or the customer also buy their other vehicles from me. To lose $300 to make $1,000 is a deal I will do all day long and twice on Sundays.

 

[5.0 Hatch]

The GT350/GT500 vs. the FoST/FoRS is completely different.

The mindset is not outdated. The 05/06 FGT was not a money maker for Ford. The 17/18/19 FGT will not be a money maker for Ford. The 13/14 GT500 was not a money maker for Ford. Etc etc etc.

Gives their engineers something exciting to work on and their imaginations to run wild once the boundaries are opened up. Tech then trickles down to more mainstream models.

 

[ON D BIT]

Ford made 5 figures on each 13/14 gt500 from what I heard.

 

[13COBRA]

Ford made 5 figures on each 13/14 gt500 from what I heard.

They made 5 figures after paying for R&D? Advertising? Promotional events? Running the piss out of test cars?

I'd like to see a source to even halfway believe that's factual.

My 14 had an MSRP of $65,345. Invoice of right above $60k. $2,100 in holdback, so I bought it for $58k from Ford. So they produced the vehicle and developed it for $48k or less?

I'm 99% sure that's incorrect, but if you have proof I'd love to see it.

 

[GT Premi]

I think you're overthinking, or at least overestimating, development costs for halo Mustangs. Don't forget probably 90% of the development was in the basic chassis and body. Very little development or testing needs to be done for a few suspension and body panel changes. I bet the biggest expense on the halo Mustangs is for engine development. Even then, I doubt it's anywhere near what you're thinking it is.

 

[13COBRA]

I think you're overthinking, or at least overestimating, development costs for halo Mustangs. Don't forget probably 90% of the development was in the basic chassis and body. Very little development or testing needs to be done for a few suspension and body panel changes. I bet the biggest expense on the halo Mustangs is for engine development. Even then, I doubt it's anywhere near what you're thinking it is.

So, show me.

 

[johnny-longtors]

Don't worry guys - FoMoCo gon make it all up on the sales of the GT.

 

[13COBRA]

Don't worry guys - FoMoCo gon make it all up on the sales of the GT.

LOL

 

[DHG1078]

I think you're overthinking, or at least overestimating, development costs for halo Mustangs. Don't forget probably 90% of the development was in the basic chassis and body. Very little development or testing needs to be done for a few suspension and body panel changes. I bet the biggest expense on the halo Mustangs is for engine development. Even then, I doubt it's anywhere near what you're thinking it is.

Except its not a "few suspension and body changes." The entire drivetrain is different. The entire suspension is different. The base mustangs don't run mag shocks.

The engine has to undergo its own development and testing. The voodoo was not cheap. It also means new EPA certifications, which are not cheap.

Its not cheap shipping these cars and engineers and test drivers out to germany either.

Not sure where the government draws the line, but enough changes to the car requires new crash testing certifications which aren't cheap.

Shelby gets royalty fees for every car.

Clay models for the car aren't cheap. Wind tunnel testing is not cheap. New tooling for the unique sheet metal is not cheap, especially when its only used for a limited production car. Hell, how many molds/cnc programs/other tooling did they have to throw away before they got it right? Programming the assembly line to paint, weld, and assemble these cars isn't easy or cheap either. etc.

There is a lot that goes into making a halo mustang, and when you have hundreds of people working on it, many making 6 figures, costs add up fast. Costs are easily in the 7 figures for development of a halo mustang. Possibly more, especially when you consider they are still developing and improving the cars.

 

[johnny-longtors]

Its not cheap shipping these cars and engineers and test drivers out to germany either.

One might argue there's more penis factor than necessity here. But, all the cool kids are doing it, so.....

Did this car actually have new sheetmetal? I know there's some unique bumpers - didn't know they'd actually put on custom body parts....

 

[DHG1078]

One might argue there's more penis factor than necessity here. But, all the cool kids are doing it, so.....

Did this car actually have new sheetmetal? I know there's some unique bumpers - didn't know they'd actually put on custom body parts....

The 'ring isn't the most necessary steps, but that one single track contains a lot of features that would take several tracks state side. There are advantages to using the 'ring, but part of it is the publicity of being there.

I believe it has a unique hood, fenders, and bumpers. Its both longer and wider than a GT.

 

[GT Premi]

One might argue there's more penis factor than necessity here. But, all the cool kids are doing it, so.....

Did this car actually have new sheetmetal? I know there's some unique bumpers - didn't know they'd actually put on custom body parts....

With regards to the GT350, everything from the A-pillar forward is unique.

Being someone who works in the corporate world, I know how "funny money" works. They basically take man hours spent on a project and say it cost X amount of dollars to complete a project. In reality, those engineers, clay modelers, engine builders, etc. still had to be paid, anyway, regardless if they were working on a project or just sitting around surfing the internet all day. So the only real expenses are the ones directly related to bespoke parts, i.e. new tooling, new vendors, etc.

 

[DHG1078]

With regards to the GT350, everything from the A-pillar forward is unique.

Being someone who works in the corporate world, I know how "funny money" works. They basically take man hours spent on a project and say it cost X amount of dollars to complete a project. In reality, those engineers, clay modelers, engine builders, etc. still had to be paid, anyway, regardless if they were working on a project or just sitting around surfing the internet all day. So the only real expenses are the ones directly related to bespoke parts, i.e. new tooling, new vendors, etc.

Good businesses keep track of how many man hours are spent on each project. They require the engineers to "bill" their various project groups the amount of time they spent on said project.

Whether they actually did something or surfed the internet is a different story, but any business worth its salt should be keeping track of where its man hours are spent.

Thats at least the trend in the aerospace industries out here.

 

[ON D BIT]

They made 5 figures after paying for R&D? Advertising? Promotional events? Running the piss out of test cars?

I'd like to see a source to even halfway believe that's factual.

My 14 had an MSRP of $65,345. Invoice of right above $60k. $2,100 in holdback, so I bought it for $58k from Ford. So they produced the vehicle and developed it for $48k or less?

I'm 99% sure that's incorrect, but if you have proof I'd love to see it.

It was posted here. Said they made more with that GT500 than they did on the 150/250's.

 

[DHG1078]

It was posted here. Said they made more with that GT500 than they did on the 150/250's.

Can you post a link? I'm having a hard time finding it.

 

[ON D BIT]

Can you post a link? I'm having a hard time finding it.

On phone search function is weird on the new forum. It was posted by dbk probably end of 12.

 

[13COBRA]

It was posted here. Said they made more with that GT500 than they did on the 150/250's.

I do not believe that, I look forward to seeing a link.

 

[DHG1078]

I haven't found anything saying 5 figures specifically, but I found this thread from 2007 with DBK saying SVT is a money maker.

https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/will-there-be-a-2009-shelby-gt500.443159/