EPA to Start Aggressively Enforcing Emission Defeat Devices

[SecondhandSnake]

I like how "actually implemented for years" is considered "plausible but unrealistic.

And if you actually read my post you would see it's not the "oh I lost connection, shut off the car now." No, every time it updates there's a timer that gets reset and starts counting down. When that timer expires, it takes punitive action, normally ramping up as I laid out. It will not immediately shut off while you are driving. It will start to hint to you as it gets lower, and take action to convince you. Eventually if you keep ignoring it, it will not start up the next time you go to start it from the off position. That is how many critical emissions faults already work and have worked for years. Other users mentioned this is already in place for things like regens and DEF levels.

But I know this won't convince you unless I could post source code verified by three sources that this was already implemented across all manufacturers.

 

[Makobra]

I like how "actually implemented for years" is considered "plausible but unrealistic.

And if you actually read my post you would see it's not the "oh I lost connection, shut off the car now." No, every time it updates there's a timer that gets reset and starts counting down. When that timer expires, it takes punitive action, normally ramping up as I laid out. It will not immediately shut off while you are driving. It will start to hint to you as it gets lower, and take action to convince you. Eventually if you keep ignoring it, it will not start up the next time you go to start it from the off position. That is how many critical emissions faults already work and have worked for years. Other users mentioned this is already in place for things like regens and DEF levels.

But I know this won't convince you unless I could post source code verified by three sources that this was already implemented across all manufacturers.

you're talking about 2 things as if they are the same.

thing 1: fault detected BY ECU eventually results in car not running.
thing 2: connection not established or update not made results in car not running.

do you think these scenarios are basically the same thing?

 

[Deceptive]

well first of all I've only been arguing against what is realistic. nuke from orbit is plausible but not realistic.
second, requiring a command to shut down a car is not the same thing as requiring a command to allow the car to continue running.

1. onstar works like this:
vehicle receives command to shut off. vehicle shuts off.

2. the proposed orwellian police state fantasy works like this:
vehicle is going to shut off UNLESS it receives command to not shut off.

now, don't cheap out and pretend like I'm ignoring the rest of your post like other people like to do.
this is a matter of first importance because your argument is built on the idea that this exists in the wild today.

it doesn't. now, question for ya, do you think thing 1 and thing 2 are the same things?

You want to know how I know you are in no way, shape, or form an expert in any industry and that you are also ****ing clueless? Because the pure shit that comes out of your mouth for your argument that you swear is impossible is implemented and working in industries.

These timers are reset at routine maintenance intervals.


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.

 

[Sinister04L]

You act like the industry is this big war machine that will just fight back and beat down the EPA. Yet the entire industry has had to make cars specifically complaint to a single ****ing state.

So I laugh at you and your BS Texas chest pounding in CARB Compliance. I bet you believe your state will never turn blue because Mah Texas.

View attachment 1620076


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.

I'm about to start taking this TX shit personally lol.

 

[blk02edge]

We should re-visit Makobra's original opinions.
-Thinks its physically impossible to build in a kill switch? Like what? The technology isn't there?
-thinks people will actually take up arms against the government for automotive laws.


Lol...

 

[Makobra]

We should re-visit Makobra's original opinions.
-Thinks its physically impossible to build in a kill switch? Like what? The technology isn't there?
-thinks people will actually take up arms against the government for automotive laws.


Lol...

I've made all your lies bold for clarity. A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

 

[Deceptive]

I'm about to start taking this TX shit personally lol.

I still like you.

We should re-visit Makobra's original opinions.
-Thinks its physically impossible to build in a kill switch? Like what? The technology isn't there?
-thinks people will actually take up arms against the government for automotive laws.


Lol...

But he is an industry expert. Maybe if that industry is the industry of ignorance.

I've made all your lies bold for clarity. A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Oh, you are definitely a fool that takes great pleasure in ignorance.

Seeing how what you state is impossible is actually in use in other industries, tell us again how it will not work.


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.

 

[ssj4sadie]

I'm about to start taking this TX shit personally lol.

Right. I wish there was an entrance exam to come to Texas...

A dead man switch could “easily” be implemented. To think it couldn’t is asinine. The exact process of how it could be implemented is up in the air as there are many possible ways to do it. Arguing a very specific way as the only way...lol c’mon! @Makobra Just because you want to skin the cat starting at the asshole, does not mean you are correct.

 

[Makobra]

Just because you want to skin the cat starting at the asshole, does not mean you are correct.

it also doesn't mean i'm not correct.

 

[ssj4sadie]

it also doesn't mean i'm not correct.

Uh, you missed what I was saying. There is no correct answer. Technology is advancing at an exponential rate. So you saying “I’m right, you all are wrong” is in and of itself incorrect. Just because YOU cannot envision the answer does not mean it does not exist or will not.

 

[Makobra]

Uh, you missed what I was saying. There is no correct answer. Technology is advancing at an exponential rate. So you saying “I’m right, you all are wrong” is in and of itself incorrect. Just because YOU cannot envision the answer does not mean it does not exist or will not.

maybe that's the difference between us. I DO see the answer, quite clearly, and that is why I can say you don't know what you're talking about when you say there is no correct answer. I've built far more complex software integrations than this. have you? hell, have you built any? have ANY of you?

the correct answer is the one that works.

 

[blk02edge]

I've made all your lies bold for clarity. A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

What lies? Do you or do you not think the people will rise up and start throwing lead WHEN the epa starts throwing in these mandatory monitors?

 

[ssj4sadie]

maybe that's the difference between us. I DO see the answer, quite clearly, and that is why I can say you don't know what you're talking about when you say there is no correct answer. I've built far more complex software integrations than this. have you? hell, have you built any? have ANY of you?

the correct answer is the one that works.

“I mor smrt! I mac tings du mor hrd dan dis! Dis no hapen doh!”

That is how you sound, asinine.

So what complex software integrations did you build? Have I built any? No. However, I have seen dead man switches built into software. As has everyone that has used a computer with a trial version of Windows. Sure you can get around some of those triggers by modifying the registry or some other sort of “hack”. But the majority of people do not know how/will not do so.

 

[Deceptive]

maybe that's the difference between us. I DO see the answer, quite clearly, and that is why I can say you don't know what you're talking about when you say there is no correct answer. I've built far more complex software integrations than this. have you? hell, have you built any? have ANY of you?

the correct answer is the one that works.

And that is how we KNOW you are not an industry expert in anything. How do we know? Because the simple command you say is impossible is already in use in many industries.

How can that be? You are not that smart.


No IT equipment was stolen in the making of this comment.

 

[Makobra]

So what complex software integrations did you build? Have I built any? No.

Shocking.

However, I have seen dead man switches built into software. As has everyone that has used a computer with a trial version of Windows. Sure you can get around some of those triggers by modifying the registry or some other sort of “hack”. But the majority of people do not know how/will not do so.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of why this is such a terrible idea.

You guys think it is in some way realistic that an entire industry and population of consumers would just accept their thirty/forty/fifty/150K vehicles acting like a trial version of windows?

 

[Junior00]

I have no dog in this fight but I helped strip the module, VCIM I think it was called by GM, on one of our 2018 2500 Silverados with no ill effects. I do know once it was removed there was no more OnStar or 4G wifi available. I wonder how different the new models are, and if you can do so on the new ones to eliminate any possibility of OTA updates, etc. like the things you guys are arguing over. Implementing the ideas being thrown around and then dealing with the legalities are two completely different constructs.

 

[HillbillyHotRod]

Can it be done? Why not? As said there are already systems that work similarly being used. Would the general public rise up in arms against it? Nope. 99.9% of the public could care less as long as their cars run good. That .1% who want to mod their car are not a large enough segment to make any difference.

 

[blk02edge]

I have no dog in this fight but I helped strip the module, VCIM I think it was called by GM, on one of our 2018 2500 Silverados with no ill effects. I do know once it was removed there was no more OnStar or 4G wifi available. I wonder how different the new models are, and if you can do so on the new ones to eliminate any possibility of OTA updates, etc. like the things you guys are arguing over. Implementing the ideas being thrown around and then dealing with the legalities are two completely different constructs.

Bottom line is, those systems can be built, they can be overridden, but the EPA can make it law that without a data stream your registration will be blocked.

They would mandate it for all new cars, not outlawing old cars immediately. But it wouldn't take a lifetime at our rate of growth for it to become total law. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if manual driving in itself was outlawed in big city limits in my lifetime.

And not one shot would be fired over it.

 

[Junior00]

Bottom line is, those systems can be built, they can be overridden, but the EPA can make it law that without a data stream your registration will be blocked.

They would mandate it for all new cars, not outlawing old cars immediately. But it wouldn't take a lifetime at our rate of growth for it to become total law. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if manual driving in itself was outlawed in big city limits in my lifetime.

And not one shot would be fired over it.

Possibly, but then you’re talking about a forced connection to a government entity or private enterprise....methinks there would be some very nasty court battles that would be protracted over many years if not decades.

What I could see in the near future is with the advent of self driving cars and nanny aids, they could force a form of NFC so that vehicles could communicate directly for avoidance and early braking. With that comes it’s own set of legal issues as well as probably a need for some other type of encryption not currently is use.

Who knows, but if the government can get its tentacles into something to take money from you or I, bet your ass they’ll do it in the name of “safety” because it’s for the chillins.

 

[Junior00]

The registration suggestion also got me thinking, as that would be a states rights issue as they all require various things to register the car. Possibly just an initial inspection or yearly, etc. Too many scenarios.