F$%&.....Dual Aviator Pumps Installed...OUT OF FUEL!

[bassin247]

Mark,

Did you try activating the BAP with a duty cycle switch? I remember you were talking about it. I'm curious how the hesatation would be affected with that type of switch.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by bassin247
Mark,

Did you try activating the BAP with a duty cycle switch? I remember you were talking about it. I'm curious how the hesatation would be affected with that type of switch.

Hey Mike,

I may end up designing a SMART BAP controller that basically turns up the boost proportionally with fuel demand. This would totally eliminate hesitation and would also help in prolonging the life of the pumps.

I did lose one set up stock pumps while running the BAP. I can't say for sure that the BAP is the cause (most likely not) but it is a data point.

I'm working on the electronic MAFXtenderTM now which should allow people to use the stock MAF at much higher power levels. I made enough circuitboards and bought enough parts for 10 prototypes. Wanna try one out?

MJ

 

[JRS BLOWN SNAKE]

How about running it with boost draw, more boost, more fuel. I have an idea that already works on the Lightnings with return systems that are stock. I'll keep you posted. I am getting ready to turn mine up soon also. Right now, I have to turn my BAP all the way down before starting car or else it loads up with fuel and starts harder. I'm going to run my BAP off boost pressure. I am running 19 lbs on KB. Good luck.

 

[mjchip]

Another piece of information.....

I just did a WOT blast and measured the voltage (VPWR) at the high-side of the fuel pump and it drops from ~13.75 volts at part-throttle to 12.25volts at WOT.

This voltage drop results in a loss in total flow capacity of approximately 11%.

This is a contributing factor to running out of flow but not a MAJOR one. One of the pumps that I installed must not be working.

MJ

 

[vector]

well it would be a good sign if you where jsut running on one pump.... and if you are only running on one pump then holy crap they work good


thanks for the

 

[JP]

Originally posted by mjchip

This is a contributing factor to running out of flow but not a MAJOR one. One of the pumps that I installed must not be working.

MJ

With that said how long did it take you to drop the tank?
And I agree you may have a pump not working and or not connected or a fuel line open.

JP

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by JP03SVTSNK10TH
With that said how long did it take you to drop the tank?
And I agree you may have a pump not working and or not connected or a fuel line open.

JP

Took about 45 minutes to drop the tank. When I run this tank down I guess I'll have to do it again.

MJ

 

[46stang]

I'm sure you'll get it Mark your a smart guy:beer: Just thinking out loud here! but you know how the two lines from the pumps T together at the pump! well what if you could essentially install a second outlet on the pump housing and then run two fuel lines all the way to the front of the car, one per pump, then use after market rails and T it together there! wouldnt that basically double the supply line to the motor? I know it's alot of work but it might help some of the high HP cars, so they don't have to keep trying feed their motors threw the single little fuel line! good luck buddy!
Leon

 

[bassin247]

Originally posted by mjchip
Wanna try one out?

Hell yea! Does it splice in series with the 0-5v maf wire to the pcm?

Who needs a new maf if you can extend the range of the stock unit.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by bassin247
Hell yea! Does it splice in series with the 0-5v maf wire to the pcm?

Who needs a new maf if you can extend the range of the stock unit.

Yes, you will need to vampire tap 12V and Gnd and intercept the MAF signal wire all at the PCM.

I'll build you one this weekend and you can start playing with it.

MJ

 

[mjchip]

Update......better but still not home

Hi Folks,

A couple of days ago I measured the voltage drop in the power line from the battery to the CCRM to the FPDM. At WOT it dropped by 1.5 volts. This represents an 11% loss in total fuel capacity.

So, yesterday I ran a 10AWG stranded wire from the battery (through a 40Amp blade fuse/holder) to the pole of a 40Amp relay which was located at the FPDM. I then used the factory 14AWG wiring to simply provide voltage to activate the power relay's coil (other side of coil to GROUND). The output of the relay (the throw) goes to the FPDM power input.

I then took the car out on the highway and recorded more data to see how much the fuel capacity increased.

Where before the rewire, the FPDM would hit 100% duty-cycle at 5300rpm. After the rewire, the FPDM hits 100% duty-cycle at 6100rpm. This equates to enough additional fuel to support 50rwhp more. Not bad for a 2 hour job and less than $25 in parts!

Here are the datalogs:

1st one - Autotap data

2nd one - High-bandwidth datalog using Afterburner

MJ

P.S. My problem is still not solved as you can tell. It appears like I'm running out of fuel pump at around 600rwhp.

 

[mjchip]

FPDM Modification Update

Well, I made a modification to the FPDM so that it could sink larger currents and drop less voltage hoping that it would extend the range of the aviator pumps in my system. Unfortunately, the data shows that it made NO difference.

Here is the graph. I guess at this point I've resigned to the fact that one of the pumps must be malfunctioning. I need to get with the parts dealer that I bought them from.

MJ

 

[Jerryk]

Mark, I'm running dual Aviators and a post-FPDM BAP. Let me know if you need some datalogs. I'm still at a lowly 500rwhp so not in the same boat as you yet. Its going to be raining for the next couple of days so it will be a bit before I could do anything but I'm willing to help.

Jerry

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by Jerryk
Mark, I'm running dual Aviators and a post-FPDM BAP. Let me know if you need some datalogs. I'm still at a lowly 500rwhp so not in the same boat as you yet. Its going to be raining for the next couple of days so it will be a bit before I could do anything but I'm willing to help.

Jerry

Jerry,

A datalog would be AWESOME. Can you turn the BAP off and datalog the following for me:

FPDM duty cycle
Fuel rail pressure
MAF voltage
Engine Speed

A WOT run in 3rd gear on the street from around 2000rpm to redline would be perfect. If you use Autotap, please convert it to a *.csv format and email it to me: [email protected]

Thank you SO MUCH!

MJ

 

[CobraBob]

It nevers ceases to amaze how cooperative the folks are here on this forum. Always willing to help you, whether locally or long distance.

 

[Quadcammer]

can somebody take pics of the wiring install. im not great with wiring, but id like to reduce the voltage drop in my BAP/stock pumps setup

 

[mjchip]

Update

Well, today I replaced one of the Aviator pumps that looked suspect during the bench flow test. I then took the car out for yet another datalog.

The datalogging session showed the following. Even though the pump appeared whacked during today's tests. The replacement pump resulted in basically NO difference in fuel pump capacity and fuel pressure. Here are 2 graphs showing before and after replacing the pump.

...and...

Bottom line is either:

1. Aviator pumps flow no better than Focus pumps (leaning towards this)
2. FPDM can not effectively drive 2 Aviator pumps in parallel


MJ

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by Jerryk
Mark, I'm running dual Aviators and a post-FPDM BAP. Let me know if you need some datalogs. I'm still at a lowly 500rwhp so not in the same boat as you yet. Its going to be raining for the next couple of days so it will be a bit before I could do anything but I'm willing to help.

Jerry

Hey Jerry,

Any luck with the datalogs?

MJ

 

[bassin247]

That sucks. I thought for sure that fuel pump was bad.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by bassin247
That sucks. I thought for sure that fuel pump was bad.

Me too!

MJ