first time at the track

[sprint200]

I'm glad you enjoyed your first track event. Myself, at the end of the first day, I wasn't sure I wanted a second. Even a year later, I was still unnerved at a new (faster) track.

Four years into my addiction, I still consider myself a novice. I leap at the chance to have someone like shelbygt sit in the passenger seat every chance I get; even on a track with which I'm very familiar.

I have to agree with him that you probably shouldn't have solo'd on your first day evar. But that's water under the bridge. From here on out, seek out the best instructor at the track, someone who wants to teach; and learn everything you can from them. If you get a chance to run in the rain (as stated above) DO IT! I made more progress from rain days than any other learning to be smooth. Remember, when it's dry and there's lots of grip it's easy to "feel" fast. When I learned to "slow down" and roll through corners, evenly heating all four tires across their entire contact patch, I dropped 4 seconds a lap on a "short" track!

Have fun! Be safe! Never stop learning!:beer:

 

[gmsux]

Going solo the first day struck me as very premature as well. Be careful out there and enjoy your next session, hopefully with a good instructor the whole time.

 

[ac427cobra]

Glad you had a good time, it is fun and addictive.
However, I'm going to say that your instructor didn't do a whole lot of instructing. I've never had a student, especially a novice, that I would solo on their first day or do a lead follow, especially a place as treacherous as Sears Point.
Three twenty minute sessions and he has nothing else to teach a novice?? Especially one with a high horsepower car???
Sounds like somebody wanted to sign off on a student to get back to his own race car or hang out with his buddies.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen this same scenario at a number of NASA events across the country.
He was impressed you didn't spin or go off track. Man, those are some low expectations.
What you had was little more than dead weight in the passenger seat to “hopefully” keep you from crashing into a barrier.

I saw a thread on a Focus board today about the NASA event at Buttonwillow the past weekend where a driver who had one previous track day at Thunderhill, was moved up to Group 2 during the day.
Two one day events at different tracks and you move to Group 2 before the end of the day??

Does anybody here remember the GT500 that rolled at Thunderhill during a NASA event in 2007 that was run clockwise?
Check the comment on page two where the driver was signed off on Saturday and rolled the car Sunday morning.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/shelby-gt500-150/429325-my-very-bad-day.html

I could not agree with this post more! I have seen this scenario play out way more times than I care to type. :rollseyes

The last time it happened was at Road America this Spring. My student and his brother came from Minneapolis to do a track event. My student had a '04 (I think) Bullitt (with about six or so track events under his belt) and his brother had a '07 Mustang GT. It was his brother's VERY FIRST TRACK EVENT and his instructor signed him off after three sessions. Sure he was driving slow and safe but that wasn't the point!!!! NOBODY should ever be signed off on a track, especially like Road America, on their first track event after three sesions!!!! :dw: EVAR!!!!!

People who call themselves 'driving instructors', and do this kind of thing, don't take the responsibility seriously enough IMHO. Finding a good driving instructor is no different than finding a good dentist, chiropractor, massage therapist or mechanic. It takes a lot of research on the part of the student. The people that attend these driving schools and get instructors, know who the good instructors are and who the 'shirkers' are. Do your research.

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[KILRSVT]

For sure I feel kinda let down but hey I still learned plenty ..., and I know I got a lot to pick up it's kinda hard to seek out the best teacher when you don't know anyone including the instructor... The Shelby American club is running next month maybe I can get down there and get some more knowlege out there.

 

[brkntrxn]

Don't feel let down. Sounds like you had a good (and safe) day and let it go at that.

As a student, you should have a specific set of goals to accomplish in each session and each day. It could be as simple as "I want to be smooth and put in some strings of good laps" or as complex as "I want to learn to to threshold brake the entry of T4 while downshifting to 3rd".

As an instructor, I prefer to hear that someone has a specific goal for a session. It gives us something to work toward as a team. Don't let the instructor get out of the car unless you are happy with your progression. And don't be afraid to tell an instructor how you want to be instructed (lots of talk, little talk, hand signals, pushed, etc). You are paying for it, so get your money's worth.

Now on the flip side, as you progress don't be afraid to take a session by yourself. You probably did not notice it having been signed off on your first day, but your car is going to handle differently without the 200lb helmet stuffing in the passenger seat.



-Kevin

 

[monX]

Don't feel let down. Sounds like you had a good (and safe) day and let it go at that.

As a student, you should have a specific set of goals to accomplish in each session and each day. It could be as simple as "I want to be smooth and put in some strings of good laps" or as complex as "I want to learn to to threshold brake the entry of T4 while downshifting to 3rd".

As an instructor, I prefer to hear that someone has a specific goal for a session. It gives us something to work toward as a team. Don't let the instructor get out of the car unless you are happy with your progression. And don't be afraid to tell an instructor how you want to be instructed (lots of talk, little talk, hand signals, pushed, etc). You are paying for it, so get your money's worth.

Now on the flip side, as you progress don't be afraid to take a session by yourself. You probably did not notice it having been signed off on your first day, but your car is going to handle differently without the 200lb helmet stuffing in the passenger seat.



-Kevin

Good pointers Kevin!

 

[shlbygt]

For sure I feel kinda let down but hey I still learned plenty ..., and I know I got a lot to pick up it's kinda hard to seek out the best teacher when you don't know anyone including the instructor... The Shelby American club is running next month maybe I can get down there and get some more knowlege out there.

The SAAC national event at Sears will be a great place to see nice cars but a poor place for a novice or (in my opinion) anyone to drive on track. It is strictly an open track that is very lax in enforcing the rules and puts a ton of cars on track at one time. My last time with them was in 2007 at Miller when it was a combined SAAC/SVTOA event. I was with SVTOA, who put on 6 to 8 instructional events per year at tracks all over the country, catering to the novice and occasional track driver. Whereas SAAC puts on one event a year. The on track shenanigans we had at that event with SAAC would fill a book.

he let me go on the 4rth one by myself but i follwed his line for 2 laps...are you an instructor for nasa??? i am most definetly heading out there again on october if youre there I would really like to go out with you on the track or have you give some pointers...No matter how you cut it I learned a lot. i was still in group1 when I went solo group1 and 2 run together....doing thunderhill next month...hopefully this instructor is more intense. I had plenty fun though and cant wait to get out there again....even if I had a sucky teacher...lol

I do not instruct for NASA but know some who do. My next two events are on the east coast, Watkins Glen & Mosport.
You never know what quality of instruction you will get at an event regardless of who is running it. It all comes down to the leadership of the group running the event and their goals for the event.
I would suggest you communicate with someone at NASA about the instruction you received to see what they think. Ask if it is normal to be a first timer and get signed off on the first day. It is possible they have a bad instructor and no one has ever complained (novices as yourself still had a good time and didn’t know any better) or maybe that is just the way NASA intended to run the event. Keep in mind, bad doesn’t mean the instructor didn’t know what he is doing, it’s just fast racers don’t necessarily make great instructors. It’s all about knowledge, communication and intentions.
The core group of instructors I run with will sometimes get an unfamiliar local instructor recommended by someone.
During the event we find he/she is just not up to snuff or has misrepresented their driving experience in order to get free track time. Things like missing flags while instructing (there are supposed to be two brains and four eyes in the car), signing off on a driver that we later see on track driving without a clue, etc. That instructor is talked with to see what the issue may be and if we are not satisfied with the answers they are not invited back the next event.
My first goal is to make your weekend as safe and fun as possible while cramming as much relevant information as possible. I want you to learn to drive better, have fun and drive your car home so you can and will want to come to another event.
In the end I want to turn out drivers I can comfortably run with at future events.

Now this is a bad instructor who got in under the radar and the organizer made things right with the student.
Story:
How to make a name for yourself as an track day instructor - Corner-Carvers Forums
Video:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwa9TMG63fM"]YouTube- Mazdaspeed3 HPDE Thunderhill Park 1/30/10 - Unpleasant Instructor[/nomedia]

 

[KILRSVT]

despite the fact that it was my first time out I learned more in that day than ever also..how can you tell a good instructor from a bad one?? I was randomly paired up with my instructor and had no say on who I wanted to drive with. .he has 17 years of racing experience and has done a lot of courses...I was pretty impressed with the backround I guess not all racers are made to teach...lol. I plan to do thunerhill if all goes well...but if I will definently do Infineon in october...hopefully my next instructor will be less lenient.