"Forged Bottom" Questions

[RC-5.0]

When guys are talking about getting "forged bottoms" for the Extra power and boost on their cars, is it just forged rods and pistons theyre referring to (replacing)? Is there more to it? What does something like that usually cost for parts and if a shop does the install?
Thanks
RC

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

it costs a lot however until you are heading towards forced induction its not needed

 

[RC-5.0]

it costs a lot however until you are heading towards forced induction its not needed

Thanks but that hardly answers the original question.

 

[Ron Mexico]

stock bottom is good to roughly 600 hp, right? anything more and you're playing with fire?

 

[RC-5.0]

stock bottom is good to roughly 600 hp, right? anything more and you're playing with fire?

 

['14 Shelby]

Rods, Pistons, Crank I believe

 

[zachcrosen]

Can u swap rods, pistons and crank and stay with the stock heads?

 

[stang8psi]

depends.. in most cases you can re use your crank and just get it re balanced to the new piston weights. Also the rotating assembly is cheaper if your block is in working condition before building. A std bore is between.002-.003 over and than can be done at any machine shop (Basic honing). And it not expensive. When putting the motor back together the bolts are all tty bolts (main cap bolts,main side bolts,Head bolts,and the cam bolts) tousley sells a ford racing head changing kit, and ford racing Main cap and side bolt kit, the cam bolts (40) are 60 bucks.

 

[stang8psi]

Can u swap rods, pistons and crank and stay with the stock heads?

Yes

 

[manolith]

rods and pistons is all you really need. the crank you can reuse. it will be a good idea to invest in arp2000 rod bolts along with arp main bolts, side bolts and head studs. also new bearings along with a good pair of head gaskets and possibly squirter eliminators. Oh and i almost forgot. billet oil pump gears are a must. if you can take the motor out your self an engine shop would charge you around 1200-1800 to redo the entire long block which should include balancing the rotating assembly and prepping the block. when you add up the price of parts which is around 2500 bucks everything would be under 5 grand. and all you would need to do is stick it back in the car. now if you cant take the motor out you will need to pay big bucks for a shop to do all that extra labor.

a good option is buying a built short block. mmr has specials for under 4 grand without arp studs which you can add later on.

another option is buying an entire long block. the aluminator sounds like a good one. and then sell your long block for around 4 grand or so assuming that its in good shape. am aluminator is around 9 grand so in the end you will be spending 5 grand or so for an entire long block. again you still need to take out your motor not matter what.

 

[csb85]

The factory crank is forged already, pretty sure it is good for 1,000+. So yeah a forged bottom end is pretty much pistons and rods. You can also add better bearings, arp hardware, and while your in there might as well do oil pump gears.

 

[csb85]

rods and pistons is all you really need. the crank you can reuse. it will be a good idea to invest in arp2000 rod bolts along with arp main bolts, side bolts and head studs. also new bearings along with a good pair of head gaskets and possibly squirter eliminators. Oh and i almost forgot. billet oil pump gears are a must. if you can take the motor out your self an engine shop would charge you around 1200-1800 to redo the entire long block which should include balancing the rotating assembly and prepping the block. when you add up the price of parts which is around 2500 bucks everything would be under 5 grand. and all you would need to do is stick it back in the car. now if you cant take the motor out you will need to pay big bucks for a shop to do all that extra labor.

a good option is buying a built short block. mmr has specials for under 4 grand without arp studs which you can add later on.

another option is buying an entire long block. the aluminator sounds like a good one. and then sell your long block for around 4 grand or so assuming that its in good shape. am aluminator is around 9 grand so in the end you will be spending 5 grand or so for an entire long block. again you still need to take out your motor not matter what.

You can get and aluminator for a lot less than 9 grand. Tousley quoted me $7610 shipped. Still trying to decide if i want the aluminator or have my block built( if its still good )

 

[stang8psi]

Wow 5k to build a shorblock if re using your block and crank should get no where near 5k... I did mine for 2600 bucks! I mean everything except the arp main bolts. Not needed New stock bolts are holding tons of power (look at boss's) so it's not something that is totaly needed! And the boss 302r head changing kit with the better 12mm head bolts are also fine. I would sudgest valve springs if it's boosted or N/A cause they are something if reving high enough you will need, and if runing a lot of boost they are needed..

 

[manolith]

Wow 5k to build a shorblock if re using your block and crank should get no where near 5k... I did mine for 2600 bucks! I mean everything except the arp main bolts. Not needed New stock bolts are holding tons of power (look at boss's) so it's not something that is totaly needed! And the boss 302r head changing kit with the better 12mm head bolts are also fine. I would sudgest valve springs if it's boosted or N/A cause they are something if reving high enough you will need, and if runing a lot of boost they are needed..

Did you have to pay to assemble it? I'm sure it could be done for less but I'm just throwing some figures. Building the shirt block is not the all of the job. Putting the long block together and taking it apart in the first place does cost quite a bit unless you do it your self.

 

[SignalZero]

Rods/pistons/rod bearings/rod bolts combo: 1,500.00
Arp studs with side bolts: 280.00
Main bearings: 92.00
Head studs: 419.00
Billet oil pump gears: 370.00
Plus your block work and gaskets: ?

But, this is just a quick search. Not shopping for best deals. So for around 2,500 ish, it can be done. Exactly what I plan on doing as well.

 

[Torchy]

Rods/pistons/rod bearings/rod bolts combo: 1,500.00
Arp studs with side bolts: 280.00
Main bearings: 92.00
Head studs: 419.00
Billet oil pump gears: 370.00
Plus your block work and gaskets: ?

But, this is just a quick search. Not shopping for best deals. So for around 2,500 ish, it can be done. Exactly what I plan on doing as well.

Seems legit but don't forget to add piston rings too;-)
Also the cost of balancing all this plus rebalancing your crank. Prob want to polish your crank too. Machine work and gaskets could easily go beyond $1000. Just a guess tho.

 

[schecter]

Im getting mine done right now. Its costing me a little over 5k for- Remove engine, longblock disassembly and cleaning, 9.5:1 pistons, rods, rings, bore and hone with torque plate, balance/polish crank, arp main stud kit, clevite bearings, arp head studs, head changing kit, billet oil pump gears, custom valve springs, re assemble long block.

You don't have to do all of that for a built bottom end of course, i.e. valve springs, but while the engine is out and apart you might as well. The parts don't make up a lot of the cost, but more so the labor that is needed.

If you are interested more I would suggest getting a hold of Frank or Jake at Power By The Hour, Steve or Chris at Blow By Racing, or Tim at MPR as they are local to us. They will definitely be able to answer any questions and concerns you have and head you down the right path.

 

[SignalZero]

Seems legit but don't forget to add piston rings too;-)
Also the cost of balancing all this plus rebalancing your crank. Prob want to polish your crank too. Machine work and gaskets could easily go beyond $1000. Just a guess tho.

Thanks for the reminder. The rings come with the piston/rod kit :beer: but yes, balancing is an absolute must.

 

[stang8psi]

If you are only doing a standard bore it the honing should cost no more than 250-350. Balance the crank around the same if not cheaper. Rotating Assembly are livernois uncoated 1199.00 coated 1499. MMR 1399 for everything except bolts if you re use your crank.
I am doing my own work, so I guess I am lucky! But even if you weren't MMR if you send them your short block (300 for shipping both ways) will build it with their 1000 rotating Assembly for 2399. A shop to r&I engine 1000-1500.. still well below 5 k

 

[schecter]

If you are only doing a standard bore it the honing should cost no more than 250-350. Balance the crank around the same if not cheaper. Rotating Assembly are livernois uncoated 1199.00 coated 1499. MMR 1399 for everything except bolts if you re use your crank.
I am doing my own work, so I guess I am lucky! But even if you weren't MMR if you send them your short block (300 for shipping both ways) will build it with their 1000 rotating Assembly for 2399. A shop to r&I engine 1000-1500.. still well below 5 k

Thats kickass that your doing yours yourself. If I had the tools and weren't overseas I would have as well. I want to be able to turn the key and drive when I get back next month. Also, I just figured I would let someone with a whole lot of experience on performance engines do the build as I don't want to have to worry about it for a while. I will say though it is a bit weird being a mechanic myself on heavy equipment to have someone else work on my car. it sort of takes a bit of the accomplishment of," I built that" away from my car.

You're absolutely right it would cost under 5k by a thousand or so, but if you start buying some of the upgrades like valve springs, billet oil pump gears, and few other things the price will climb fast. All of which isn't needed for strictly a bottom end of course which is what OP asked for. Just giving out a bit of info on my cost with upgrades.