I was at the track recently and was experiencing terrible wheel hop. I can't spend the $800 on the full kit so I need to know what the "bare minimum" is for eliminating wheel hop and being safer. Would it be a good idea to replace the stock struts and shocks too? I would pair it with a set of bias ply slicks.
FTBR Question
- Thread starter Lycosa
- Start date
You can still get wheel hop even with the full FTBR kit. Put you a bias ply slick on the car and that should solve your wheel hop issue. As far as the bare minimum goes I would at least do the diff bushings, diff cover, and a set of adjustable shocks.
Are subframe bushings needed?
I would skip the FTBR kit and go straight for Poly. 1000x stiffer than stock and a whole bunch cheaper than poly. Pair that with some bias ply tires and you should be good. I did full poly in my car and it rides great with no added NVH.
Could you post a link of the ones you got?
The FTBR bushings are made of delrin, this material is much stiffer than poly. The ftbr bushings imo are the best ones out there. You asked for bare minimum so I left the subframe bushings out. If you are going to do those you may as well do the whole kit since you have to drop the irs to install them.
Delrin is not "much stuffer" than all poly. The Shore-D hardness ratings are not that far off depending on which poly you have. For the IRS, Prothane is perfect. Some buddies and I have used it for years with no problems. No hop, and it all looks good as new still.
Here's a bunch of info on the parts along with some hardness numbers:
http://www.terminator-cobra.com/suspension.htm#Polyurethane_bushings
Here's a bunch of info on the parts along with some hardness numbers:
http://www.terminator-cobra.com/suspension.htm#Polyurethane_bushings
This. Everyone is so wrapped up with the race car hype on these forums most do not do their own research. Look into it yourself and you will see. Especially if your car is more road car than race car.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Urethane-IRS-Subframe-Bushing-Kit-1999-04-P472.aspx
https://lmr.com/item/PT-6311BL/99-04-Mustang-Cobra-Irs-Control-Arm-Bushing-Set
https://lmr.com/item/ST-5554015/99-04-Mustang-Steeda-Cobra-Irs-Differentail-Bushings
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/IRS-urethane-swaybar-bushings-1999-04-Cobra-P493.aspx
Nice strong poly IRS for about $200. Take the $600 you save and buy a new FRPP diff cover.
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Race car hype? :dw:
I have FTBR on mine AFTER removing poly bushing that were shot to hell after about 30k miles. FTBR doesn't ride any harsher. Having owned and daily driven both poly and delrin, I couldn't tell the difference in terms of ride quality and NVH. Although I will have to give it to delrin for the wheel hop factor, mine hops way less. Hard turning, I would give delrin the upper hand as well, just from the seat of the pants feeling of sticking to the road.
For something that articulates that much, I would never put poly or urethane as an "upgrade" to rubber. It will be good for awhile don't get me wrong, but it will wear down much faster then delrin. If I had to do it all again, I'd still go with delrin so I never have to deal with it again. It's more expensive, because it's better. It has nothing to do with race car syndrom, if I'm going to spend the hours of taking out my IRS, I want to put the best stuff in there. Let me know how your poly looks after 50k miles, compared to delrin at the same time.
Edit*
You talk about Shore D tests, but what about other numbers that matter just as much. t's roughly 15-30% stronger in that category, but tensile strength is 100% stronger and flexible strength is about the same number. Delrin takes more abuse, and gives less give than poly. That information is the actual testing done in a controlled environment, not some random picture on the internet.
I have FTBR on mine AFTER removing poly bushing that were shot to hell after about 30k miles. FTBR doesn't ride any harsher. Having owned and daily driven both poly and delrin, I couldn't tell the difference in terms of ride quality and NVH. Although I will have to give it to delrin for the wheel hop factor, mine hops way less. Hard turning, I would give delrin the upper hand as well, just from the seat of the pants feeling of sticking to the road.
For something that articulates that much, I would never put poly or urethane as an "upgrade" to rubber. It will be good for awhile don't get me wrong, but it will wear down much faster then delrin. If I had to do it all again, I'd still go with delrin so I never have to deal with it again. It's more expensive, because it's better. It has nothing to do with race car syndrom, if I'm going to spend the hours of taking out my IRS, I want to put the best stuff in there. Let me know how your poly looks after 50k miles, compared to delrin at the same time.
Edit*
You talk about Shore D tests, but what about other numbers that matter just as much. t's roughly 15-30% stronger in that category, but tensile strength is 100% stronger and flexible strength is about the same number. Delrin takes more abuse, and gives less give than poly. That information is the actual testing done in a controlled environment, not some random picture on the internet.
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Thanks for the links. The car is mostly a street car since it's a daily. Visit the track a couple times a month.
Not sure what you meant by the race car hype with the FTBR bushings. I am running the full 5001 kit and I do not have any additional NVH. At least at first I didnt, im getting my rear end rebuilt soon because my gears are whining but this has nothing to do with the bushings.
OP, ill give you my honest opinion. If you plan on just driving the car around town the MM kit will suit your needs just fine. However, if you plan on tracking your car a couple times a month I would get the FTBR kit. Im not going to throw out stats on why one is better than the other but just do some research on here and read some real world reviews of both kits. Like others have said either kit will be a upgrade over what you have.
OP, ill give you my honest opinion. If you plan on just driving the car around town the MM kit will suit your needs just fine. However, if you plan on tracking your car a couple times a month I would get the FTBR kit. Im not going to throw out stats on why one is better than the other but just do some research on here and read some real world reviews of both kits. Like others have said either kit will be a upgrade over what you have.
I'll probably just go with the MM kit for now and then upgrade down the line when the car is more of a race car than a street car. I've found negative reviews and positive for both so I guess we will just see what happens.
I too have ran both and the difference is night and day. I don't need to rehash what's already been said. I would just save up until the time is right and do it right once and be done with it. It's worth it's weight in gold.
If I ever spec'd out urethane bushings for an articulating joint under high loads my boss would fire me! :burn:
+50000 Could not have said it better myself
Yup.. I did the FTBR Delrin kit and my car has ZERO hop, rides nicely, and handles incredibly well (considering how nose heavy it is). NO more NVH that I noticed. No more clunk either.
In my opinion... If you are going to do it, do it right the first time. It is not fun drilling out those bushings, and pulling the IRS is a pain to do twice for the same reason.
Now, having said that, I just built an 8.8 and my car will be getting solid swapped by the end of next week! lol
If you are even thinking of swapping the poly out later spend the money and time once and get the ftbr kit you won't be disappointed.
FYI, I did the full FTBR kit and still had wheel hop. Handling was night and day though
Just installed MT IIs and no wheel hop.
Just installed MT IIs and no wheel hop.
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