GT-500 questions

[352Ford]

My Father and I have been on the hunt for a new GT-500 and we finally got to test drive one. There were some things I liked and some things I didn’t like so much. Issues I am concerned about:

Clutch release point it is really far up (like ¾ the way up), not condusive to high performance driving at all, is their a way to fix this?

The car appeared to have very little if any anti-squat or anti-dive, this could be a result of too light of spring rate as well. Does anyone know what the spring rates are and how much anti dive and anti squat are in these cars? It is possible that the anti dive and anti squat is the exact same as the gt and v6 versions, but I don’t know.

Definitely wasn’t impressed with the power, but I have heard they don’t make full boost until a few miles, what is the boost limit until this mileage is reached and what is the horsepower difference?

The clutch chattered pretty badly, anyone else have this problem?

Thanks

 

[chuckstang]

My Father and I have been on the hunt for a new GT-500 and we finally got to test drive one. There were some things I liked and some things I didn’t like so much. Issues I am concerned about:

Clutch release point it is really far up (like ¾ the way up), not condusive to high performance driving at all, is their a way to fix this?

The car appeared to have very little if any anti-squat or anti-dive, this could be a result of too light of spring rate as well. Does anyone know what the spring rates are and how much anti dive and anti squat are in these cars? It is possible that the anti dive and anti squat is the exact same as the gt and v6 versions, but I don’t know.

Definitely wasn’t impressed with the power, but I have heard they don’t make full boost until a few miles, what is the boost limit until this mileage is reached and what is the horsepower difference?

The clutch chattered pretty badly, anyone else have this problem?

Thanks

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but having a high release point for the clutch is actually designed for high performance driving. Think of it this way, you can shift that much faster because you do not have to push the pedal all the way to the floor so it shortens the overall time it takes to shift the car.

This is especially helpful for drag racing or any time you need to shift fast, like powershifting!

The springs/shocks from the factory are tuned by SVT for this car in particular. You would just want to go aftermarket or get the FRPP handling package to replace the stock springs, shocks and so on and that problem will be gone!

Blower comes on after 5 consecutive miles or 50 start ups I believe, and trust me once its broken in, even stock, it is not short on power! But a simple tune can get you practically to 500 rwhp

The chatter is normal, due to the dual disc clutch's material as it begins to grab, just give it more rpms or release quicker.

 

[jcthorne]

The clutch chatter will go away with driver education and experience. Its a ceramic clutch, you will need to learn how to drive it.

The springs are soft for a very comfy ride. Not to fear, the aftermarket has a very wide range of spring rates and ride heights available for you to choose from.

The car will make 0 boost as delivered until driven 50 miles or so many starts. Still the car hides its performace well. I thought it was not all that fast either until I raced a couple friends that had played with me before. The car is deceiving in its speed.

You are among the first I have heard of to 'test drive' one of these cars prior to purchasing. the dealers must be getting desperate. Most of us had to order the car sight unseen, months before production even started.

 

[Bascom123]

You are among the first I have heard of to 'test drive' one of these cars prior to purchasing. the dealers must be getting desperate. Most of us had to order the car sight unseen, months before production even started.

I too took one for a test drive here a month or so ago. Yes they are getting more desperate to dump them as the 08's are in production or soon will be. I too was disappointed with the power and nose dive. I drive a highly modded 03 vert and that thing is like being on rails in comparison. Decided to pass for that and even at 6K over sticker it was not worth that to me. I will wait for a year or two and get a use done for much less.

:lol1:

 

[352Ford]

The car had about 9 miles on it and was making boost via the gauge. My butt dyno would compare it to your average healthy fox with some bolt ons thrown at it, but as stated before it could be one of those cars that is faster than it feels.

I didn’t even ask to test drive, the salesman offered.

No numbers anyone??????

 

[chuckstang]

what numbers?

The car makes 440rwhp stock, 500rwhp with a tune and over 550rwhp with pulley, intake, exhaust.

Since the car is so big and rather heavy, it hides its speed well.

I could not ever even test drive a Terminator let alone a GT500, that is a very nice dealership!

I bought unseen and undriven, it is just one of those cars that you know you either want or don't want especially since you are paying over sticker.

If you have to think about it than the car is not for you or wait until you can get one for sticker or less if that does happen.

The new 08 Vette at $45k base model is the best bang for the buck if you care most about out of the box performance.

 

[69b302]

The car had about 9 miles on it and was making boost via the gauge. My but dyno would compare it to your average healthy fox with some bolt ons thrown at it, but as stated before it could be one of those cars that is faster than it feels.

I didn’t even ask to test drive, the salesman offered.

No numbers anyone??????

I would not buy a car that has a lot of test drive miles on it. Most people spending 45k+ on a car feel the same. It's like buying a used car IMO. The dealer must have not guaged your intent to purchase correctly, since the miles you put on it have lowered its marketability. Not sure how your dyno figures into the test drive your took. Are you saying you can estimate power as acurately as a dyno?

 

[352Ford]

what numbers?

Spring rates, anti dive, and anti squat numbers, the main point of this post…

 

[chuckstang]

Oh, sorry about that, not sure on those exact numbers.
I would contact SVT at (800) FORD788

 

[352Ford]

thanks

One last question, do the heads on the new gt-500’s have the same amount of spark plug threads as previous generations or did they fix that so spark plugs don’t come shooting through your hood?

 

[ac427cobra]

Spring rates, anti dive, and anti squat numbers, the main point of this post…

I've never heard of anti-dive or anti squat numbers? Please enlighten me! :read:

 

[chuckstang]

The heads are off the Ford GT, best in the business, I would not worry about them. I have never once heard of any spark plugs shooting through the roof.

The GT500 is the best Mustang ever built, period, end of story. (not counting the price with ADMs)

Any shortcommings that the GT500 has can easily be fixed. The main parts of the car are what matter and the GT500 has the best there is to offer.
(Viper spec T-56 tranny with a dual disc clutch capable of 9 sec 1/4 miles passes, forged pistons, rods, crank with Ford GT aluminum heads, 5.4L of discplacement, 14in Brembos with 4 piston calipers, a block that is capable of 1000hp, and so far no known catastrophic engine failures even with many running around with twin screws pushing 700hp)

 

[POINTCOVER]

I've never heard of anti-dive or anti squat numbers? Please enlighten me! :read:

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[352Ford]

I was told they had powered metal rods (which are often confused with the tradional forged rods, but very different despite both processes both having the word “forged” in it)

Just because it is a good car doesn’t mean they didn’t fix a major problem (i.e. having too few spark plug threads) they have had since the mod motor was introduced in 1991. After all this is ford we are talking about, come out with a great idea/product and kill it with the details.

Does anyone really know the answer to this?

Anti dive and anti squat are very important suspension kinimatic reactions, especially if the vehicles design goal is high performance. Designing the kinematics of a suspension system is all about compromise and finding the best combination those suites the vehicles intended purpose.

Anti dive: (in this example we will use the front suspension) from the side view draw a straight line from the tire contact patch to the instant center of the FRONT suspension. Draw a line from the center of gravity to the ground, where they intersects gives you the amount of anti dive. It is the ratio between the height of the first line until it crosses the second line, and the height of the center of gravity. The most common ways to modify this is change center of gravity and/or move the front or rear pickup points on the A-arm in relation to each other in the vertical direction if viewed from the side view.

Anti squat:

Same thing basically as anti dive, its just usually calculated for the rear suspension. For solid axle use the control arms to find your instant center, and everything else is the same. For IRS you can’t use the tire contact patch to draw your vector, you have to use the centerline of the diff, and that is why IRS sucks on nose heavy cars unless you are on a really really bumpy, high speed tracks/roads, you just can’t get enough anti squat without sacrificing everything else.

 

[eichisama]

A) AFAIK "Forged" has NEVER = "Powdered Metal". The GT has (IIRC) cracked PM rods, the GT500 has cracked Forged rods. The cracking refers to how the end cap is made - it's cracked off the rod rather than cut. Cutting requires extra machining, cracking requires keeping the rod end with the rod it was cracked from.

B) Head and spark plug threads: AFAIK the GT and GT500 both use Aluminum, the older mod a 2v, the newer a 3v, and the GT500 uses the Ford GT 4v heads. I believe I've heard stories about older Al heads blowing spark plugs out due to backfiring or perhaps detonation, but I've never heard of any issues with the GT heads.

Fourcam (or anyone else), care to elaborate/correct?

 

[chuckstang]

Im not sure why are so caught up on the anti squat and dive numbers.
I own the car and am here to tell you, the stock suspension is garbage as far as performance goes so plan on spending $1-$2k to make it corner like a champ.
Or ask AC427Cobra how much he charges and he will take a stock GT500 and pass a Vette!!!

 

[352Ford]

Alright the confusion on powered metal “forging” needs to end here!

All powered metal processes (with the exception of SLA) that I know of use a forging die, so they are forged. This is a completely different forging process that what we commonly think of when we say “forged rods”. I will try and briefly explain the general differences.

Powered metal process starts with a mass of very finely ground metal (it looks like very fine sand) this is then poured into a mold/die. The mold/die with the powered metal in it is put into a hydrostatic press and smashed with huge amounts of force. So much force the powered metal particles squish together. When you pull it out of your press and remove from the mold/die is it a solid part. Many times it is sintered afterward for desired material properties.

Typical metal forging:
You have a high strength die in the shape of your part, you place a chuck of billet material into, heat and pressure from the tool, shapes this billet into the desired shape. The main reason this process is so great is the grain flow (yes metal has grains) you obtain from it. The grains flow around obstacles in the die (think about the big end and small end of a rod) so you have better control for stress paths.

There are many different variations of this process depending on the product, production volumes, etc, but I thought these two examples are the easiest to visualize.

You can obviously modify the material properties with heat, composition, etc. but the result tends to be more brittle and have a very short critical crack length than a compairtible unit made from your typical forging process.


The failure mode of the spark plug issue is a poor design, and quite simple, not enough thread contact. I really would like to know if they have fixed it yet, I am pretty sure it was on the “to do” list.

 

[352Ford]

Im not sure why are so caught up on the anti squat and dive numbers.
I own the car and am here to tell you, the stock suspension is garbage as far as performance goes so plan on spending $1-$2k to make it corner like a champ.
Or ask AC427Cobra how much he charges and he will take a stock GT500 and pass a Vette!!!

Simply for this reason: Spring/sway bar/damper rates, bushing/suspension link compliance, and even chassis stiffness are relatively easy to change. But changing the actually kinematics of the suspension is far more difficult, expensive and has a higher risk for going wrong.

 

[chuckstang]

Ya I see, I sort of understand where you are coming from but at the same time, you obviously have a lot of knowledge, more than many on here and I feel like you are asking questions you already know or think you know.

The numbers you desire unfortunately will probably never get answered but who cares, we already know what the car can and can not do in both stock and modified form.

Modified the car can run 9s and beat out sports cars costing much more on a road course as well if that is more your style.

Now, stock, it is a 12 second car in the 1/4 and if you are a good driver, a car that can pass corvettes on a road course.

I don't really worry to much about numbers but results and outcomes, so I wouldnt get to stuck on squat and dive numbers, especially a stock gt500 because you know, you and anyone else is going to mod the crap out of it to do whatever it is you want it to do. Street cruiser, 1/4 champ, road course hog, you name it, the car can do it.

 

[SlowSVT]

The problem with the spark plugs blowing out is from some moron at Ford thought having only 4 aluminum threads would be adequate (I guess he never heard of thread stretch). They are now 9 threads in the cylinder head. I would be very surprised if they when back to 4. Ford must have lost millions in warranty work from that blunder and I would not be surprised if the guy who signed off on that is no longer with the company.

The anti-dive and anti-squat is a function of the suspension geometry, not the springs or shocks. Trying to remedy the problem with springs of shocks would just be applying a Band-Aid to the problem.

I have heard the PM rods are actually fairly strong more then one would think when you consider the process. But a forged steel rod should still a stronger design. I think the concern with the GT500 rods is unfounded. I haven't heard of anyone throwing a rod yet other then some failing on the dyno.

Not impressed with the power? That one has me a bit baffled. I would think twice about mixing it up with a GT500 in my Terminator mod for mod.