GT350R wins vs ZL1 in M/T & KBB h2h's.

[ZYBORG]

Barely, but yes. Still not as fun to drive, though. I bought my R for the fun factor. My dick is big enough that I don't have to be concerned about the ZL1 being faster than me in a straight line. I literally don't care. I'm a curves man. If a ZL1 driver wants to call me out, I still have my GT500 I can roll out of the garage to see what's what.

Not as fun to drive? I guess that depends who you ask. I bet more people would like the experience in the better performing, more well rounded ZL1 than in the track focused R.

Also, I find it hypocritical that you say how "close" the R is to the ZL1, yet totally disregard the fact that the camaro SS 1le ACTUALLY matched the R's time.

Also find it hypocritical that the old Z28 is 4 times closer to the R, than the R is closer to the ZL1.

So essentially, to get R level performance at the track, get yourself a regular 1le or old z28 camaro. If you want to beat the R at its game and DESTROY it everywhere else, get yourself the new ZL1.

 

[GT Premi]

Never driven either one


I've owned my 03 Cobra since 2004 and still own it. Your butt hurt that a stock camaro ZL1 can out run your 350R is your issue not mine. What exactly does your GT500 have to do with this conversation?

LOL! I am far from butthurt. You guys seem like the butthurt ones because the R is so close to the ZL1 despite being down 124HP/221TRQ.

 

[GT Premi]

Not as fun to drive? I guess that depends who you ask. I bet more people would like the experience in the better performing, more well rounded ZL1 than in the track focused R.

There was a thread/poll here asking that very question, and IIRC most people still would've preferred the R.

Also, I find it hypocritical that you say how "close" the R is to the ZL1, yet totally disregard the fact that the camaro SS 1le ACTUALLY matched the R's time.

How have I disregarded it? What's hypocritical is that you guys are wanting to use times from different track days to compare against the R's. I guess you're disregarding the Laguna Seca test from last year's Best Driver's Car competition. I don't recall the SS 1LE posting an exact same time there.

Also find it hypocritical that the old Z28 is 4 times closer to the R, than the R is closer to the ZL1.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make there. Did you delete a few sentences or something? What part of that is supposed to be hypocritical?

So essentially, to get R level performance at the track, get yourself a regular 1le or old z28 camaro. If you want to beat the R at its game and DESTROY it everywhere else, get yourself the new ZL1.

Did you forget about the Head2Head that Motor Trend did with the Z28 and GT350R? The Z28 was beaten everywhere. There has been no Head2Head of any SS 1LE against any GT350. However, I DO wish somebody would do one so you Camaro guys can stop talking about fantasies of the SS 1LE beating the GT350 and equaling the R. I have no idea where a ZL1 is going to "DESTROY" a GT350R except in a primitive straight line contest. Tests repeatedly show the ZL1 doesn't have what it takes to hang with the R in the corners. That's why Chevy hurriedly threw together the 1LE version. LOL

 

[50 Deep]

All this over .39 seconds?

For a car with much more power and more development time I would have expected more from the ZL1. The car was faster sure, but not by much. I just think it is an underwhelming victory.

The test speaks more to how fast the R is, and how much faster the ZL1 isn't.

Simple fact is there is much more to the overall enjoyment of a car then what it can do at the limit. Most people don't live there with their cars, and don't have the capability to get there anyway. The 350/R is just a more enjoyable car. The camaro is faster, but just not enough to overcome what is lacking in the driver experience/engagement.

Chevy builds fast cars, but they don't build special ones.

 

[ZYBORG]

There was a thread/poll here asking that very question, and IIRC most people still would've preferred the R.

Didnt know most people have had the chance to drive the R. "Poll here" also doesn't constitute most people. Your counter is moot.

How have I disregarded it? What's hypocritical is that you guys are wanting to use times from different track days to compare against the R's. I guess you're disregarding the Laguna Seca test from last year's Best Driver's Car competition. I don't recall the SS 1LE posting an exact same time there.

Same day and same track the ZL1 won. End of story.


I have no idea what point you're trying to make there. Did you delete a few sentences or something? What part of that is supposed to be hypocritical?

I did miss a sentence. Meant to say, that I find it hypocritical that you say how close the R was to the ZL1, when the old Z28 was actually 4 times closer to the R (than the R to ZL1) and you dont mention that.

Did you forget about the Head2Head that Motor Trend did with the Z28 and GT350R? The Z28 was beaten everywhere. There has been no Head2Head of any SS 1LE against any GT350. However, I DO wish somebody would do one so you Camaro guys can stop talking about fantasies of the SS 1LE beating the GT350 and equaling the R. I have no idea where a ZL1 is going to "DESTROY" a GT350R except in a primitive straight line contest. Tests repeatedly show the ZL1 doesn't have what it takes to hang with the R in the corners. That's why Chevy hurriedly threw together the 1LE version. LOL

It will be really funny to watch you fumble with excuses when the ZL1 1LE pummels the R.

 

[ZYBORG]

Funny how most everyone here justifies the loss. Lol....

All these excuses "it has a supercharger", "it warms my feels more"... or "it makes more power"....

All the while, the full out track car R has many more advantages, such as:

much lighter, has much stickier compound tires, has wider tires, has fancy CF wheels with low rotational mass, has a higher red line, has a smoother / more linear power that makes it easier to deliver power to the groud, fast and furious wing..... But no, none of the fanbois mention that....

Lmaooooo

 

[GT Premi]

Nah. What's actually funny is how you guys don't want to acknowledge the MASSIVE power deficit the R has compared to the ZL1 and the fact that the R and ZL1 (1LE) aren't even direct competitors. Yet, you want to hang your hat on the ZL1 being faster in a straight line. Well, duuuuuuuhhhhh!!! A hundred and twenty-four more HP and 221 more lbs-ft of torque will tend to make that happen. LOL

And no, I won't be "fumbling" to make a single excuse for the ZL1 1LE beating the R. It'll be fun watching you guys squirm yet again when it doesn't put "several seconds" on the R around a track as some have claimed. At best it'll equal the R on a track that favors handling. On a track that favors power, the outcome will be obvious.

I can't wait to see what the next GT500 has for that ass, though. You know, the car that will actually be the ZL1's direct competitor.

 

[ZYBORG]

Funny.... you keep repeating the same thing....

"ZL1 has more power".... but totally ignored all the advantages to the R. Perfectly biased.

Even more amusing is how you keep stating the R as the better handler, while it was the loser at the road course track test (you know, the handling test thingy). Hahahaha.

And last interesting fact, Im not a GM/camaro guy. I own a Shelby just like you. But unlike you, I am an objective party and can admit the ZL1 is the superior car.

 

[gimmie11s]

All the while, the full out track car R has many more advantages, such as:

much lighter, has much stickier compound tires, has wider tires, has fancy CF wheels with low rotational mass, has a higher red line, has a smoother / more linear power that makes it easier to deliver power to the groud, fast and furious wing..... But no, none of the fanbois mention that....

Lmaooooo

+1

GT350r is a purpose built track car with no AC or radio, or anything else. The fact that the zl1 is faster or better in every measurable metric should be seen as a downright embarrassment to Ford.

The zl1 is NOT special with regards to a race track. Not special at all. The 1LE? Sure... with its aero and such.

Icing on the cake is that it can be had for well under MSRP.

 

[ZYBORG]

+1

GT350r is a purpose built track car with no AC or radio, or anything else. The fact that the zl1 is faster or better in every measurable metric should be seen as a downright embarrassment to Ford.

The zl1 is NOT special with regards to a race track. Not special at all. The 1LE? Sure... with its aero and such.

Icing on the cake is that it can be had for well under MSRP.

Amen brother! Almost forgot that $20-30K price difference in favor of the ZL1....

At this point, the only thing that helps the R "save face" is the exclusivity and the fact that although slower, it still is a cool ass car.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

The gt350r is the more memorable driving experience.

The new zl1 isn't a bad car by any means, but it's not a gt350r.

Anyone who'd rather drive a veyron on a spirited drive vs a mclaren f1 should just sit on their couch and play videogames. Apache, have at it.

Same day/driver/track, the ss 1le is seconds behind a gt350r. It ran 1:37.78 at leguna seca, the gt350r ran 1:36.4 with Randy admitting he botched the last turn/went wide. He probably scrubbed 2 tenth with that corner alone. Corner one he also carried in my opinion an odd line and had a slow average speed. He only exited at 58mph. Anyways, flawed gt350r lap same day/track was 1.25 seconds faster on a 2 mile track.

And no, the zl1 didn't beat the gt350r in every category. It won on arguably the most important test for comparing handling. The figure 8 lap time. It was .1 faster vs the zl1, even with its 221lbs/ft torque deficit.

That exhaust note (literally you asshat) is much better (lol ha! #****fanboy****boybullshit) listen to it, only a zealot wouldn't agree.

The zl1 1le should be faster than a gt350r. It will have aero, sticky track tires, and 650/650hp/tq. It would be a laughing stock if it wasn't.

The next gt500 will be formal zl1 competition. And a track pack on that gt500 will be zl1 1le competition.

All this noise is why the auto culture is so pointless. Everybody acts like they appreciate everything but really most everyone is just biggoted liars. I'm unabashedly a mustang fan but appreciate everything else. Why mince words, the zl1 is great, but the gt350r is special.

 

[gimmie11s]

...Why mince words, the zl1 is great, but the gt350r is special.

The only thing you said in that masterful dissertation that makes any sense at all.

Agree that 350r is special. The zl1 is in fact greatER.

 

[ZYBORG]

You totally ommitted all the R's advantages.... Meanwhile keep using lack of power as a crutch. I agree with you on one thing. The R is special. But I also think its embarrassing that a measly camaro ss 1LE is even being compared to one. Didnt notice you complaining about the power deficit there though.

Bottom line and feelings aside, ZL1 is faster everywhere that matters.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

The other elephant is the kbb comparison. They also liked the gt350r more.

It's the overall experience. Drive an z06 and a corvette grand sport on the same technical road, racetrack, and city route. Come tell me which you preferred and why. I bet dollars on dimes most would prefer the grand sport because forced induction numbs the pedal feel, and introduces the need for steering corrections, instability and so on. Simply put, an na car will almost always be more enjoyable on a circuit or technical drive than an fi car, chassis etc being similar. It's not rocket science, it's just simple physics.

The reason the old zl1 won comparisons against the old live axle gt500 was entire subjective as well. When spending $60k, which car is more enjoyable/communicative and dialed in to drive? Same story then as now.

 

[GT Premi]

Funny.... you keep repeating the same thing....

"ZL1 has more power".... but totally ignored all the advantages to the R. Perfectly biased.

Even more amusing is how you keep stating the R as the better handler, while it was the loser at the road course track test (you know, the handling test thingy). Hahahaha.

And last interesting fact, Im not a GM/camaro guy. I own a Shelby just like you. But unlike you, I am an objective party and can admit the ZL1 is the superior car.

Yet it keeps losing competitions to the R because the R is the better driver's car. You can try to be "objective" all you want. At the end of the day, the R was still declared the victor. Don't like the results? Do your own test. You know what's even more amusing? The fact that you keep dismissing the fact that the R was actually faster in the corners than the ZL1. The ZL1 only made ground in the straighter portions. Why is that so hard for y'all to comprehend. That extra 124HP/221TRQ dragged the ZL1 to a quicker course time, NOT it's handling or braking. It's not rocket science, people.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

@Gimme11's

That ramble wasn't intended or implied to be anything but forum banter. Tell it to the concierge. No ones here to give a shit.

So you like the zl1 more. GreatER for you. GreatEST for you. Go be happy with your view of it, buy one or covet one, and feel miserable that the people testing the cars side by side think you're wrong.

 

[GT Premi]

You totally ommitted all the R's advantages.... Meanwhile keep using lack of power as a crutch. I agree with you on one thing. The R is special. But I also think its embarrassing that a measly camaro ss 1LE is even being compared to one. Didnt notice you complaining about the power deficit there though.

Bottom line and feelings aside, ZL1 is faster everywhere that matters.

Except in the turns. And I haven't seen a single publication do a head-to-head of the SS 1LE and the GT350R. Got any links?

 

[ZYBORG]

I understand what you say about feel, as i am all about it. I can sit here an think an R will be more "fun" out on a track (where it will spend 1% of its time) vs me thinking the ZL1 will be more fun in the street (where it will spend 99% of its time).

Most "fun" or most "enjoyable" is subjective NOT science as you say.

Like mentioned above, as cool and special as the R is, the ZL1 outperformed it in ALL performance metrics that matter (road course, 1/4 and highway).

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

The 1le is 1.25 seconds slower. The last zl1 and gt500 were 1:37.9 1:38.2 at leguna as well but different test day. The 1le is .01 ahead of the old gt500, great.

My point is we aren't comparing the gt350r or zl1 6th gen to those cars either. The only reason the ss 1le was brought up was an inaccurate post show in an identical lap time to the gt350r's

"The gt350r's michelins felt merely adequate today" that sums up your difference to that inaccurate post.

The track was green. The gt350r is a grip car. The track was so green it's tires never felt right. And it still almost out lapped a car making 25% more hp and 50% more torque (do your own math for exact numbers I give 0 ****s)

The 1le SS is not gt350r fast and probably not even gt350 fast same day/track/driver

 

[gimmie11s]

@Gimme11's

That ramble wasn't intended or implied to be anything but forum banter. Tell it to the concierge. No ones here to give a shit.

So you like the zl1 more. GreatER for you. GreatEST for you. Go be happy with your view of it, buy one or covet one, and feel miserable that the people testing the cars side by side think you're wrong.

I don't covet any of it. You cannot ignore the measurables though (although youre certainly trying) and unfortunately you cannot measure how "great it feels."

Sorry you dont like science.

ZL1=the better performing car.