• Welcome to SVTPerformance!

Help!! DSS drivshaft install problem!

Discussion in 'SVT Shelby GT500' started by rjm-1, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    Hey Guys, I need your help! I ordered a DSS driveshaft and went to my mechanic to install the new driveshaft and J&M UCA. The install of the UCA went okay, but the driveshaft does not fit! We ended up dropping the exhaust, dropping the transmission mounts and finally got it SQUEEZED in between the pinion shaft and transmission output shaft. The shaft is so tight it's ridiculous! And the dimension at the pinion spacer and shaft end is only 2-7/8". DSS paperwork says it should be 3-1/4 to 3-3/4" DSS is closed right now so I'm looking for help.

    One question I have, does the pinion spacer go all the way into the pinion flange? Mine sticks out about 1/4". Is this normal? Seems to be fully seated. Could this be my problem?
     
  2. Cuda426

    Cuda426 New Member Established Member

    Messages:
    102
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Location:
    Kansas
    The spacer seats into the pinion flange and does stick out a little. Your either going to need a shorter driveshaft or you will have to install some adjustable lower control arms and make room by adjusting them. Running the driveshaft crammed in there will not work, it needs room for suspension travel and axle rotation.
     
  3. 19COBRA93

    19COBRA93 Tire shredder Established Member

    Messages:
    4,900
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2003
    Location:
    Clinton, Utah
    Did you measure it with the suspension suspended, or loaded? If I let the rear end hang, it puts forward pressure on the driveshaft and there's no way I could get it on or off. If I load the suspension like it were sitting on the ground normal, then I can get the shaft on or off and it has the appropriate measurements. If that makes sense.

    Raise the rear end to it's normal position, then measure it.
     
  4. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    The suspension is not loaded! It's on a regular service bay lift, not a drive-on lift. It's hard to believe I could gain that much by loading the suspension, but that's the best idea I've heard so far. Tomorrow we will load the rear wheel and see what that does. Wouldn't think I would need adjustable lowers. Too many have done this mod without problems! BTW, the car is lowered with FRPP lowering springs.
     
  5. me32

    me32 BEASTLY SHELBY GT500 TVS Moderator

    Messages:
    15,607
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Location:
    CA,NorCal
    Any pics
     
  6. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    Update: Well after talking with DSS and watching actual videos of people installing this driveshaft on a GT500 with suspension unloaded, I'm convinced that the suspension does NOT have to be loaded to install the driveshaft. I also talked to a Ford SVT tech who just installed a 1pc and he said he did it without the suspension loaded. DSS has convinced me to ship the shaft back to them to check it out. I asked them on what pinion flange to output shaft flange dimension they based their shaft on, and unbelievably they could not tell me!! I then asked for the dimensions of their driveshaftso I could check their shaft and they could not tell me that either! I gave them what dimensions I had and they said it sounds "about right" but insisted I shipped it back.

    With the DSS adapter installed, the flange to flange dimension on the car is 50-5/8" The DSS driveshaft measures 51-1/8" That is with the CV joint gap compressed to 3" Remember they want the final gap to be 3-1/4 to 3-3/4".

    I do have J&M adjustable upper and BMR lowers with relocation brackets, and the car is lowered with FRPP springs. But many on this site have similar suspension with a DSS shaft. So I don't think the suspension changes are the issue.

    I still need to re-install the stock driveshaft and get it on a drive on lift to set the pinion angle, but could get the garage again until tomorrow. In the meantime my car is hanging on the lift!

    I'll re-take the flange to flange dimension tomorrow when the suspension is loaded, but I can't see it making up that much of a difference.

    My fear is that they will say the driveshaft is fine. Then what??

    If there is anyone else installing this driveshaft, please take some dinmensions for me! Especially the Flange to flange on the car.
     
  7. Red-GT500

    Red-GT500 Needs More Torque! Established Member

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Location:
    Ft. Worth TX
    I'm sure most cars should be very close and the mods shouldnt make any difference unless the wheels are adjusted all the way forward. Maybe someone else has a flange to flange measurement you can compare?
     
  8. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    Steve from GT500 forum took a measurement on his car. Here is what he found: "Rich, I just took my measurements. With the CV joint gap at 3 1/2" the driveshaft measures 50 3/4" flange to flange on the car. I can't believe it, but it looks like your shaft IS too long................."


    I will definitely call DSS owner next week and complain about the lack of knowledge I experienced talking to their reps.

    Geez, If your going to call yourself experts in custom driveshafts, there should be someone in their "Tech Help" that can answer basic questions about their product! Very disappointing!
     
  9. Red-GT500

    Red-GT500 Needs More Torque! Established Member

    Messages:
    737
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Location:
    Ft. Worth TX
    Ouch that stinks. I would make them repay you for the mechanic fees if they sent you a bad part and you had to pay for the install.
     
  10. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    OMG!!!! Can my day get any worse? The guys at the garage put the original driveshaft back in today and tightened everything up so I could drive the car until a new shaft comes back.

    Well when they were done I started her up and it would just barely engage reverse. Then all forward gears would engage but bottom out hitting hard metal to metal at the end of the shift stroke!! WTF!!!

    Had them raise the car back up, loosened the transmission cross brace and made sure it was free and centered. Looked at everything including the MGW shifter linkage and took it for a test ride. Same thing!! Shifter is now too far forward in the hole and hits the MGW plate in forward gears. Obviously they bent or damaged something while lowering and raising the transmission trying to jam the new driveshaft in.

    I know I should make them fix it, but now I don't trust them and don't want them to touch my car!

    I'm going to remove the MGW connecting arms to see if they're are bent. They do not appear to be, but there is no way to be sure without removing them. I did talk to George at MGW and he is also convinced that something got bent during the driveshaft work.

    I usually do all my own work and have had few problems. I went to my buddy's garage because I have a bad shoulder and back and decided to let the professionals do this job. What a mistake. Bummed................
     
  11. Blueline

    Blueline Active Member Established Member

    Messages:
    4,923
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Man bud sorry to hear about your troubles, that stinks! Good luck getting the issues fixed and being back on the road!
     
  12. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    Thanks, i'm sure it will all work out, but just frustrating as hell.
     
  13. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

    Messages:
    10,739
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Location:
    The Ville
    I didn't measure my installed flange face to flange face dimension when I did my shaft install. I can tell you this, I had a contact at Ford take a look through '13 GT500 schematics and he gave me a dimension of 50.0944" at factory ride height (the '13/'14 shaft is shorter than previous because it has a longer fixed flange at the transmission). If I add the difference between the '13 fixed flange and the '07-'12 flange, I come up with 51.3574". That number should represent the distance between a '07-'12 fixed flange face and the pinion flange face on a '07-'12 GT500.

    Adding the requisite flange difference dimension, I found I could extend the driveshaft to a total length of 51.7324" or compress it down to 50.7324". You said yours measured measures 51-1/8" which is less than a quarter of an inch shorter than where the factory shows it to be.
     
  14. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.

    Thanks for the input Tob. Maybe I wasn't clear on the dimensions. The 51-1/8" was the flg to flg on the driveshaft before extending it to DSS min dimension on the CV joint end. (DSS requires 3-1/4" to 3-3/4" on CV joint end or will void warranty. Mine was at 3")

    So the real flg to flg of the driveshaft would be 51-3/8". Plus their Adapter plate extends the shaft dimension another 1/4". That's a total flg to flg of 51-5/8". That's still over 1/4" too long.
     
  15. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    Pulled the shifter assembly out this morning and examined all the parts. No bent arms or any other noticeable damage.

    Laying there under the car I looked at the transmission cross brace and wondered if was possible that they had reinstalled it upside down. Certainly if it was 2" or so low, that would affect the shifter.

    I took the transmission brace down and installed the rubber mount onto the other side and reversed the brace. It seemed like I would really have to jack the transmission up quite a bit in order to start the bolts but it was worth a try. The brace is not flat and has a definite hump and could go on either side. Ford embosses the word "Forward" on both sides but does not say which end is up. Before jacking it into place, I decided to look at some youtube videos of shifter and driveshaft installs. Sure enough, there it was. They had installed the brace upside down! Normally you don't have to worry about it because there is no reason to remove the rubber mount. But these guys didn't have a clue.

    After putting everything back together the shifter works like butter with no metal to metal contact or harshness!!

    Well at least the shifter problem they caused is now fixed and all I have to deal with is the driveshaft problem.
     
  16. Cuda426

    Cuda426 New Member Established Member

    Messages:
    102
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Location:
    Kansas
    It's amazing that shops can make a living repairing cars. I have run into botched repairs two times in row when I didn't have time to do the work myself. In both cases I returned the cars to have them fix their screw up and finally ended up having to do the repairs myself. Then I let both shop owners know exactly what I thought of their technicians skill level. I don't trust anyone to wrench on the Shelby. Last thing I need is something coming apart at high speed.

    Looks like your going to have to install the driveshaft yourself when they send you one in the correct length.

    Well done by the way on figuring out the shifter problem.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  17. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    When and if I get the right driveshaft, I'll install it myself for sure. The only reason I had someone else do the instal of the UCA and driveshaft was because of my shoulder problems. The UCA would have been way to much for my shoulder so I'm glad he got that in. But the driveshaft should be okay. The thing that sucks is that I've known this guy for 30 years as a friend but never had him work on my cars. Safe to say he won't be working on them anymore!
     
  18. dirtyo2000

    dirtyo2000 DirtyO2000 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,343
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Location:
    with mom
    That's why he's a friend. Once someone that you call friend does work that you know how to do friendship ends once you look at the work
     
  19. rjm-1

    rjm-1 Member Established Member

    Messages:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Location:
    Wells, Me.
    Amen Brother!
     
  20. zporta

    zporta KB INSIDE Established Member

    Messages:
    6,395
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Location:
    Baltimore
    That is crazy man! How do you F something up that bad. Almost like one person took it apart and let another reassemble
     

Share This Page