So if neither are out yet, exactly how do you know what will kill what :??:jwfisher said:
Is THAT "realistic"? I don't think so.
Interesting Cobra information...
- Thread starter xxxzach
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Is THAT "realistic"? I don't think so.
I think the truth of the Ford GT lies somewhere inbetween.
Do I think that it's really good for an 11.2@131 in most situations? No. R&T corrects their numbers for DA, which is deceiving.
Do I think it's good for around there? Yeah. The copy I drove seemed slower than my Z06 through gears 1-2, after that it gets muddy(my car is good for low 11's@~128 on DR's, although I've only tracked it twice). Up top where it really counts, no contest GT. I'm sure in the 0-150 category the GT will murder the C6 Z, and in the 0-180 it would be too big too even care.
The one thing that the GT will have for it against the C6 Z06 in performance terms is the ability the blower has to keep piling it on at speed. All the N/A cars I've ever driven start to gasp for air up top. That damn GT seems to actually get faster the higher the mph.
I think the C6 Z06 will be an even match in many performance respects, if not exceeding it(braking comes to mind), but ultimately exotic performance is measured by where the limit ends, and there the GT can't be touched.(not too mention is a damned hand-built supercar of infinitely higher quality :lol1: )
As for the Cobra price, I truly would be stunned if the coupe goes over the 40k mark. I would guess the vert will just because it already almost does. My buddies 03 Cobra was stickered for 35k I believe, so I think a 10% increase wouldn't be out of order, especially since you have to assume with the new chassis the car will be a real bruiser.
Do I think that it's really good for an 11.2@131 in most situations? No. R&T corrects their numbers for DA, which is deceiving.
Do I think it's good for around there? Yeah. The copy I drove seemed slower than my Z06 through gears 1-2, after that it gets muddy(my car is good for low 11's@~128 on DR's, although I've only tracked it twice). Up top where it really counts, no contest GT. I'm sure in the 0-150 category the GT will murder the C6 Z, and in the 0-180 it would be too big too even care.
The one thing that the GT will have for it against the C6 Z06 in performance terms is the ability the blower has to keep piling it on at speed. All the N/A cars I've ever driven start to gasp for air up top. That damn GT seems to actually get faster the higher the mph.
I think the C6 Z06 will be an even match in many performance respects, if not exceeding it(braking comes to mind), but ultimately exotic performance is measured by where the limit ends, and there the GT can't be touched.(not too mention is a damned hand-built supercar of infinitely higher quality :lol1: )
As for the Cobra price, I truly would be stunned if the coupe goes over the 40k mark. I would guess the vert will just because it already almost does. My buddies 03 Cobra was stickered for 35k I believe, so I think a 10% increase wouldn't be out of order, especially since you have to assume with the new chassis the car will be a real bruiser.
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Evil_Merlin said:
SVTOA? That's a really lousy and uneven way to learn about track driving. Get to an event run by a non-denominational group. Then you'll get instructors with experience in multiple kinds of cars, and *far* more experienced for it.
I didn't know that the new Z06 was out yet (to the public) as some here are saying that it will compete and beat the GT in most performance catagories. :shrug:
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Captain Beyond said:
It's simple.
Before the actual production GTs were available for testing, performance figures were estimated based on initial information about the car as supplied by Ford. Once the production cars were market ready samples were sent to various auto authorities for instrumented testing and resulting figures have since been published. Based on information released by GM on the specs of the car (7.0L 427, aluminium frame) and it's performance projections (0-60 less than 4 secs, 0-100 in the 7s, 0-1320ft less than 12 secs, and top speed more than 190mph) it is very reasonable to assume that at worst the new Z06 will be very close to the GT in acceleration performance. No figures have been officially published by Ford as to the weight of the GT (although I have seen one figure of 3485lbs) but GM has given the figure for the new Z06 (3130lbs). Given that the current Z-06 can stop from 0-60 in less than 109ft and can achieve a skid pad 1.0g on stock tires it is again reasonable to assume that the new car will be even better given it's better chassis, weight distribution and improved brakes.
For more to consider, consider that extensive handling testing of this car was done at one of the most highly regarded and challenging facilities in the world, the Nurburgring in Germany and the fact that most of the new car's design was based directly on the C5-R it is again reasonable to assume that this new Z-06 will very likely be equal to and quite possibly better than the Ford GT.
By the way, when the Ford GT was being developed the Ferrari 360 was its performance benchmark target, a car which the current Z06 performs equal to and exceeds in many performance areas.
Good enough?
Now my questions, how many Ford GTs do you think you'll get to see on the street or your local track compared to the number of C6-Z06s? And why?
PS: I found this from a Road and Track review of a pre-production GT. This should give an idea of how conservative pre-production figures are in comparison to those of showroom production cars.
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Until there is actual testing/comparison data from PRODUCTION vehicles, you are only guessing! You can't race "performance projections".
I doubt the Z06 will out perform the GT in most performance catagories. I can see it competing in the handling dept., but not in acceleration tests. Keep in mind that the GT's 550 hp is a conservative rating. Actual tests have shown it to produce at least 600 hp. 0-60 in 3.3 sec. will be hard to beat. I also read that the GT reached a top speed of 212 or 213 mph. during testing in Italy. They certified it at 205 mph. I can't see the new Z06 with 100 less hp. out accelerating the GT at any given speed. I do think that it will compete in the handling dept. due to it's lower weight.
Like Badgts said, we'll just have to wait and see. :beer:
Like Badgts said, we'll just have to wait and see. :beer:
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I'd get the Z, it's a hell of a lot cheaper!
Vince Vaughn
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re: plain stupidity
I've been to a few corvette track days at e-town, nj. There wasn't any ass kicking going on. MANY of the Z06's were mid & low 13's. As a matter of fact it was odd to see one make a 11.x or 12.x pass. Maybe that's due to driver but a number is a number...
On the street when still stock I had three races with a Z06 and all were within a 1-2 car lengths up to 110 MPH. Z06 2 - Cobra 1. Saying "ass kicked thoroughly" is plain stupidity.
jwfisher said:
I've been to a few corvette track days at e-town, nj. There wasn't any ass kicking going on. MANY of the Z06's were mid & low 13's. As a matter of fact it was odd to see one make a 11.x or 12.x pass. Maybe that's due to driver but a number is a number...
On the street when still stock I had three races with a Z06 and all were within a 1-2 car lengths up to 110 MPH. Z06 2 - Cobra 1. Saying "ass kicked thoroughly" is plain stupidity.
I played around with a friend's Z06 a few weeks back. We were dead even from a roll at highway speeds. Both of our cars are bone stock. I think he's probably a better driver (so he claims). I expect a different outcome as soon as I install my FIPK and Borla Stingers that are sitting in my garage. :-D
SooperDave said:
He was talking about road racing. The Z06 was not built for drag racing.
wannasvtman
New Member
1995COBRA-R said:
Im thinking that the new cobra wont be, either.
That edmunds clip didn't tell us anything. I am still waiting for some real information to come out. SVT needs to work on a better all around car and the predominantly means getting the weight off. There is no way the new Cobra will be able to hang with a Z06 on a road course but I am sure it will be able to kick it's ass in the 1/4 mile. Who cares. I want a car that can do more than go fast in a stright line for 11 seconds at a time.
To prior posters, I'm not talking about the "strip", I'm talking about the track: I'm talking about more real measure of the total car than a simpleton straight line.
There is no way the 2007 SVT Mustang will be able to beat the Z06 in the quarter mile, 0-60, 0-100, or any such measure other than maybe a moronic 0-20. The physical impossibility includes 100-0 and 70-0, as well as peak Gs and road course ("track") times. Rules of physics makes it very clear that it will be impossible. The acceleration times of the new 2006 7-liter Z06 are nearly comparable to the Ford GT and there isn't an SVT Mustang possible that will touch that. Simple matter of physics: an extremely heavy, tall, and overly-XXL-size steel coupe with a stone age suspension is not going to beat a near-3100-pound and completely optimized sportscar with a nearly perfect weight balance, extraordinary traction, and nearly perfect gear ratios. And, I'd point out, extraordinary care taken with cooling the engine, driveline, and brakes. And speaking of brakes, the 6/4 (fr/rr) piston brakes and nearly perfect weight ratio of the Z06 will also "kills" the 2007 SVT Mustangs 4/2 piston braking system and comparitively poor weight balance and even poorer suspension geometry. Again, physics.
Y'all can hope and dream and delude yourselves and argue for a recount and comtemplate hanging chads until you are red in the face, but reality is that the new Z06 car is so perfected it won't be possible to touch it with the 2007 SVT Mustang.
GM has their act together here to the extreme (the last few generations of 'vette have constantly evolved to a better and better form), far beyond the point where any kind of SVT Mustang or anybody else's coupes will compete. Even the vaunted Ford GT (300 pounds heavier) will be approched by the Z06, at a sticker price of well over 60 thousand less (not counting the usual Ford dealers 100k markup). An absurd difference. Furthermore, GM will liberally flood the market with Z06s: they are prepared to build as many as 1/3rd of all Corvettes per year as Z06s.
So, time to think up reasonable competition, not against a sportscar. Given the new platform, the next SVT Mustang will evolve higher up the food chain (to a degree). It's been said both by the current and prior heads of SVT that the new generation of SVT products will be more balanced performance cars: where all-around balance is more important than a single attribute. Now lets get their drivers on an even keel too.
There is no way the 2007 SVT Mustang will be able to beat the Z06 in the quarter mile, 0-60, 0-100, or any such measure other than maybe a moronic 0-20. The physical impossibility includes 100-0 and 70-0, as well as peak Gs and road course ("track") times. Rules of physics makes it very clear that it will be impossible. The acceleration times of the new 2006 7-liter Z06 are nearly comparable to the Ford GT and there isn't an SVT Mustang possible that will touch that. Simple matter of physics: an extremely heavy, tall, and overly-XXL-size steel coupe with a stone age suspension is not going to beat a near-3100-pound and completely optimized sportscar with a nearly perfect weight balance, extraordinary traction, and nearly perfect gear ratios. And, I'd point out, extraordinary care taken with cooling the engine, driveline, and brakes. And speaking of brakes, the 6/4 (fr/rr) piston brakes and nearly perfect weight ratio of the Z06 will also "kills" the 2007 SVT Mustangs 4/2 piston braking system and comparitively poor weight balance and even poorer suspension geometry. Again, physics.
Y'all can hope and dream and delude yourselves and argue for a recount and comtemplate hanging chads until you are red in the face, but reality is that the new Z06 car is so perfected it won't be possible to touch it with the 2007 SVT Mustang.
GM has their act together here to the extreme (the last few generations of 'vette have constantly evolved to a better and better form), far beyond the point where any kind of SVT Mustang or anybody else's coupes will compete. Even the vaunted Ford GT (300 pounds heavier) will be approched by the Z06, at a sticker price of well over 60 thousand less (not counting the usual Ford dealers 100k markup). An absurd difference. Furthermore, GM will liberally flood the market with Z06s: they are prepared to build as many as 1/3rd of all Corvettes per year as Z06s.
So, time to think up reasonable competition, not against a sportscar. Given the new platform, the next SVT Mustang will evolve higher up the food chain (to a degree). It's been said both by the current and prior heads of SVT that the new generation of SVT products will be more balanced performance cars: where all-around balance is more important than a single attribute. Now lets get their drivers on an even keel too.
jwfisher said:
AMEN! :beer:
The next Z06 is going to be awesome, which is why I have a deposit on one. It's also going to cost 70 thousand dollars before it's all said and done, so why bother comparing it to a sub 40k Mustang? Seems kind of silly to me. We know the Z06, which I should add hasn't even been tested by anybody, is gonna be a better performer, but that's a "duh".
All I know is the next Cobra is gonna be BAD AS HELL. The new body looks great already and in it's meaner Cobra form will look even better, especially with good rims. And the powerplant is gonna be total OVERKILL. The Z06 will whip it's ass around Nurburgring, but I know they'll be prowling Telegraph with bad intentions. In the real world alot of people don't have or want a 14 mile several hundred turn german racetrack around to evalutate the car's ability. It's gonna be a sweet ass car that truly can't be beat for the dollars(at least IMO). Can't wait to see the real deal, and maybe someday own one. Besides that, nobody can say what it'll do, because none of us work for SVT and know what they've got in the works. Who knows, maybe it'll weigh 3300 pounds for all we can say...
All I know is the next Cobra is gonna be BAD AS HELL. The new body looks great already and in it's meaner Cobra form will look even better, especially with good rims. And the powerplant is gonna be total OVERKILL. The Z06 will whip it's ass around Nurburgring, but I know they'll be prowling Telegraph with bad intentions. In the real world alot of people don't have or want a 14 mile several hundred turn german racetrack around to evalutate the car's ability. It's gonna be a sweet ass car that truly can't be beat for the dollars(at least IMO). Can't wait to see the real deal, and maybe someday own one. Besides that, nobody can say what it'll do, because none of us work for SVT and know what they've got in the works. Who knows, maybe it'll weigh 3300 pounds for all we can say...
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The DBK said:
EXACTLY!!!!! :beer:
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