Your point flew right over his head as he proceeded to swing off of supra's nuts like every other no brain having teenager.
K20 Civic holds its own against a Z06
- Thread starter DonaldTaco
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Your point flew right over his head as he proceeded to swing off of supra's nuts like every other no brain having teenager.
94TurboCobra331
Banned
Maybe my post came across more harsh then I meant it to.
What I was saying is that 1000hp, period (whether it is made on C16 or not, or w/ cats or not) is not what you drive around on the street. That is why they turn it down. It's not bullshit like you said. The public roads are for everyone and trying to race with a 1000hp car all day every day is not the safest thing to do. Doesn't matter how the power is made.
Your cobra wouldn't be able to come near 1000hp and drive it like that every day so you couldn't do it with yours either.
PS--I also wan't nutt swinging from a supra either....that was the example he used so I used that as my example.
What I was saying is that 1000hp, period (whether it is made on C16 or not, or w/ cats or not) is not what you drive around on the street. That is why they turn it down. It's not bullshit like you said. The public roads are for everyone and trying to race with a 1000hp car all day every day is not the safest thing to do. Doesn't matter how the power is made.
Your cobra wouldn't be able to come near 1000hp and drive it like that every day so you couldn't do it with yours either.
PS--I also wan't nutt swinging from a supra either....that was the example he used so I used that as my example.
94TurboCobra331
Banned
Ford obviously doesn't get it considering it has smaller V8s compared to dodge and chevy...
So if displacement is the only thing that matter wouldn't the LS1 and the HEMIs be much better than any 4.6? :uh oh:
Entering stage right is the 5.4 DOHC supercharged Ford Modular! I think Ford does get it. Thats why they are making a move to the 5.4 in the newest Cobra(even though its not officially a Cobra). And some of those 5.4's are putting down 800rwhp with the new KB 2.8h. Pretty bad ass. And considering the 05 and up GT makes 300 hp and 320 ftlbs from a dinky 4.6 3 valve is impressive. Ford has been experimenting with a sohc and dohc 351 cu. inch motor as well. It may not be too long before we see a DOHC 5.8 in a Boss mustang. But, we will see.
Yes. Build a LS1 with forged internals like the Cobra and 8.5 CR with a twin screw and see what it does to a 4.6 when it's capable of running 20 psi instead of limited to 6.
Fortunately for us Cobra guys thats extremely expensive and time consuming and most people don't go beyond rims and a bolt on blower with 6 psi or whatever tops
I mean a LS7 is making more power than a near stock boosted Cobra engine... you don't think Cobra owners don't want a Boss 429 Modular DOHC to drop in their Cobras to boost? Ford is stingy with their displacement.
The Cobra isn't the most powerful car in the world, not with that weeny 4.6. It's all about power for a reasonable price. Its one of the few cars in the world like the Supra that you can bolt on a few hundred ponies for a few bucks (overly exaggerated but we all know what I'm talking about) and bank on the fact that 99.999% of the time that the other cars we come across, even with bigger engines, are going to have stock internals that can't be boosted as much. There are bigger engines, but the Cobra is one of the biggest engines out there in stock form that can handle 20+ psi from the factory, making up for it's displacement. Of course when you have an unlimited budget to rebuild any engine you want, all that goes out the window.
You are more likely to encounter a Cobra with a twin screw than you are a LS1 with Manley H beam rods... so while the LS1 or any bigger engine always has the higher potential, it's not always realized. Also realize the economic logistics: someone in the market for a $12,000 Camaro Z28 looking for cheap speed instead of a $25,000 Cobra is the least likely between the two to also have $20,000 to drop on a forged motor. Therefore we enjoy our boost advantage the majority of the time, but still in the back of the mind of every Terminator owner is the day they come across that one LS1 thats bored, stroked, forged, and running a 14-71 blower @ 20 psi on the street...
Let me tell you, provided the styling wasn't ass, if GM came out with a LS3 Camaro built the way the Cobra is from the factory running 8 psi and making 500+ HP and room to change pulleys... AND I could get one for $25k used a year or two after the come out... I'll be driving a Camaro.
There is no replacement for displacement.
(PS: figures, while not false in their premise, may be exaggerated to demonstrate concepts)
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I'd be more impressed if their N/A 4.6 was making 375-400 HP before they moved on to bigger. I mean BMW can squeeze 400 HP out of their 4.0L V8.. and we know the 4.6 has it in it to do the same because look how well the Mach responds to basic bolt ons and how many people build moderate N/A 4.6 engines. No reason why a Mach can't have a K&N and Flowmasters from the factory making 400 HP (again exaggerating with the mods here). Blame the bean counters for that one (or what I like to tell the HP/L guys, it's not that they can't, it's that they won't because they are cheap asses and we have to do it ourselves with after market parts. But then again we save the difference on entry price).
I researched the 5.4 for a while for me next project, but I don't like the issues with it's unusually high stroke and the issues with piston velocity and wobble, skirt loading, etc. Will probably stick to a 4.6 based 325 on that Ford OEM block that can go 3.70" without sleeves.
A true 351 DOHC that isn't a bored or stroked 4.6 or 5.4 would be insta boner here.
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Cost. It's not a matter of capability. It's a matter of cost. What's the most affordable BMW with the 400hp 4.0L V8 in it?
You're right they turn it down because it's not safe on the street... on the ENGINE running 50 psi with street gas
I've met people who run Methanol injection on the street, for example. They employ separate tunes at the push of a button, and you know what? They don't detune the car because it's not safe or undriveable, in fact they drive on the higher power tune as much as they can. They detune it because they ran out of methanol and don't want their car to shit out their $1000 pistons and stainless exhaust valves.
Yup (and I added that in before I saw your reply).
Thats what I keep trying to say when some HP/L advocate is comparing a $40,000 BMW to a $15,000 Mustang. Only difference is the things they call "sophisticated engineering and advanced technology" are things like a less restrictive intake and a smoother better flowing head casting that doesn't have burrs everywhere, port matching, tighter machining clearances; attention to detail that will already be present on a BMW. I know it's not cheap to build a 8-9g revving 4.6 that makes 600 N/A HP. But we know it can be done, just because it isn't sold by Ford.
It would still be nice to see a 400 HP N/A 4.6 in a GT or Mach without a serious price difference just to shut up all the nay sayers. But then I guess it wouldn't matter they would just focus their efforts on GM and Chryslers push rod engines instead, asking why a $15,000 Sebring doesn't perform like a M5 :bored:
"OMGZ that minivan is lame! Only .92g? The Enzo and Veyron can do 1.01g's!! Stupid American dinosaur trash and their push rods and rusted I beam girder suspensions!!!1!"
But lately with new Mustang GTs reaching into the $30,000 range... the cost argument will go out the window and there will be no excuse for it... and frankly I personally would like to see a little more legs on the 4.6 for that price.
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I see what you are saying and I agree. I would love to see bigger displacement engines from Ford. Especially DOHC. But making a 375-400 hp N/A 4.6 would be awsome. And your right it can be done. The 5.0 Cammer crate engine makes 400hp n/a. They could do the same with the 4.6 but it does come down to cost. All the extra shit that goes into making an engine rev to 7k and make 400hp costs $$$! Not to mention they will have to put out a warranty that is competitve with their competitors! Ever wonder why Lambos and Ferrari's only have a 2 year 10,000 mile warranty? Its beacuse the more power the engines make the less reliable and less durable they will be. Costing more money.
94TurboCobra331
Banned
Or it is simply because they don't drive them enough and if they offered a higher mileage warranty it would last the owner for the entire time they had the car. They don't drive cars like that enough to necessitate a high mileage warranty is my g uess.
And you have to service it every 3k miles and it cost your left arm and right testicle.
HUH?!? Care to expound on those "issues"... let me know how far the pistons exit the bottom of the block on the stroker you're gonna build...:dw:
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