Kenne Bell 2.8LC coolant line routing, help please

[NIXDSG]

I'm trying to finish up my 2.8 install and the directions for the SC coolant lines must be for an earlier year. Does anyone have pictures on where to route the lines, where to connect into the after cooler lines?

Also, what is the torque for the spark plugs?

Thanks.
Nic

 

[NIXDSG]

Again, hoping for some feedback so I can get this thing finished and fired up today.

The pre 2013 had a single return line with the tank in series which is what is shown in the instructions. The 2014 has a parallel return line, with a restrictor in the tank side, so not sure how the connections are to be made. Hoping for pictures from someone that has already verified with KB, being the weekend I can't do that.


Thanks.
Nic

 

[1320 Junkie]

One line gets tapped into feed for intercooler resevoir second line gets tapped into outlet of intercooler resevoir...basically you T into inlet and outlet. Thats how I have my 3.6 . If you plan on running ice in the intercooler I believe you must run it a different way...why...I have no idea.

 

[1320 Junkie]

If you zoom in you can see the brass fitting for the bottom port Tapped into the feed for my IC resevoir...the other fitting is T'd in right after the outlet on IC res not pictured.

 

[NIXDSG]

zoomed but couldn't fully see. Are these tee'd into the main line or onto the parallel line to the tank? Second question is, is the original restrictor removed that is on the inlet of the tank?

Thanks!
Nic

 

[NIXDSG]

So do I connect where? A, B, C,...?
"6" is where the stock restrictor is before the coolant tank, does that get removed (and the new tee w/ the restrictor placed here)?

 

[Bad Company]

So do I connect where? A, B, C,...?
"6" is where the stock restrictor is before the coolant tank, does that get removed (and the new tee w/ the restrictor placed here)?

My car is at Evolution at the moment, so I can't get a picture for you.

Hose assembly #6 is where the inlet and outlet are plumbed for the 3.6L LC SC on my car. I would assume this will be the same for a 2.8L LC SC also. The fittings are in the same hose between C and E. Hose assembly #6 is the return line from the intercooler to the tank and pump. The SC restricted fitting would have to be at location C and the return from the SC would be after it, towards E.

There is a factory restriction built into the hose to the intercooler tank to slowdown coolant flow through the tank in 13/14 MY cars. This is why you need to be in the long portion of the hose between C & E as it has a constant flow through it anytime the intercooler pump is on, which is when you're building boost and need to cool the bearing plate of the SC

Someone please correct me if I have this wrong as far as placement of the KB restricted fitting is concerned as I can't remember, but looking at the piping configuration in the photo is where I woulds logically place it towards C

 

[NIXDSG]

All,
Thanks.

Bad Company,
That's where my head was taking me. The only other thought was to put the KB tee with the restrictor at A to eliminate the short circuit through the tank. Just the same I'm not sure there is room to put the tee at A. So at C and E it is!

Thanks again.
Nic

 

[Snoopy49]

Are you sure you are suppose to use the same coolant source as the intercooler? By doing this, your not helping any heat soak issue you may have in the future.

 

[Bad Company]

Are you sure you are suppose to use the same coolant source as the intercooler? By doing this, your not helping any heat soak issue you may have in the future.

Yes the want you to use the intercooler circuit for cooling the SC. The only time Kenne Bell wants you to use the engine coolant circuit is when you use an ice/water tank for the intercooler system. They want 160*F coolant to cool the front bearing plate during boost conditions. The reason for this is as you build boost the front portion of the SC heats up faster than the rear, because the rear bearing plate is being cooled by ambient air as it enters the SC and the front bearing plate has to deal with the fact that the incoming air temp has risen with boost at the front bearing plate as the air exits the SC. If you over cool the front bearing plate with an ice/water system the front plate contracts too much compared to the rear and the rotors hit each other due to the clearances differences because of a large temperature differential between the entry port and exit port of the SC. Will it introduce extra heat of LC the front bearing plate into the intercooler system? Yes, but I don't think the BTUs is much, due to the fact the line size for the LC of the SC is 3/8". So the volume of coolant is low.

 

[Bad Company]

All,
Thanks.

Bad Company,
That's where my head was taking me. The only other thought was to put the KB tee with the restrictor at A to eliminate the short circuit through the tank. Just the same I'm not sure there is room to put the tee at A. So at C and E it is!

Thanks again.
Nic

These is very little flow through the tank on the 13/14 MY cars. The tank is strictly there as the high point to fill the system now.

 

[1320 Junkie]

Are you sure you are suppose to use the same coolant source as the intercooler? By doing this, your not helping any heat soak issue you may have in the future.

Lol....which do you think gets hotter IC fluid or Engine coolant?

 

[Snoopy49]

If KB wants the front bearing to reach 160 degrees, the coolant will need to be at least 160 degrees. Which coolant would you want to reach 160 degrees the IC or the engine?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

We've been Liquid Cooling the KB Supercharger with the intercooler system since they invented it and brought it to market in 2010.

The gear oil in the front supercharger snout heats up rather quickly. The LC design is to keep that oil temperature lower and it's main function is to keep the seal plate between the front gear case and rotor case cool. Before LC the plate could see upwards of 300-400 degrees in high boost applications. 22+ PSI. Now that same plate with LC doesn't exceed 200 degrees with the design. One of the side effects of the LC design is reduced supercharger inlet temps due to the reduction in convected heat from the seal plate.

To the OP. I sent you an email this morning. I had family over last night and checked out for the evening.

Van

 

[Snoopy49]

Van,
What IAT2 temperatures are you seeing with the inter cooler coolant in the KB? What are the temperatures like when using engine coolant?

 

[1320 Junkie]

If KB wants the front bearing to reach 160 degrees, the coolant will need to be at least 160 degrees. Which coolant would you want to reach 160 degrees the IC or the engine?

Well seeing I have a 3.6 LC and my iat2's stay below 160* (137* at WOT) and my coolant is around 190-195* ....ill say I speak from real world expierence and not guessing ill stick with my IC and heat exchanger combo to keep my 3.6's temps under control...working just perfectly. 60* is the difference between holding timing and pulling a few degrees via the tune.

 

[Snoopy49]

After looking at the service manual, it looks like the LC is feed from the discharge from the CAC - Charge Air Cooler.

The coolant flows:
from the CAC to the LC.
from the LC to the degas bottle.
from the degas bottle to the coolant pump.
from the coolant pump to the radiator.
from the radiator to the CAC .

Is this how it is plumbed?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van,
What IAT2 temperatures are you seeing with the inter cooler coolant in the KB? What are the temperatures like when using engine coolant?

It's in consequential. Less than 3 degrees. Same effect when using engine coolant versus the intercooler heat exchanger system. The engine coolant is still sufficient to cool the seal plate sufficiently. 220 MPH car had the LC system plumbed into Engine Coolant System. As well as the original Super Snake that we did 204.9 MPH in back in 2011. Many times it is plumbed into either system. You go engine coolant direction if you have an ice cell and the LC system is plumbed in with the ice cell. You cannot run ice water through the LC portion of the supercharger.

After looking at the service manual, it looks like the LC is feed from the discharge from the CAC - Charge Air Cooler.

The coolant flows:
from the CAC to the LC.
from the LC to the degas bottle.
from the degas bottle to the coolant pump.
from the coolant pump to the radiator.
from the radiator to the CAC .

Is this how it is plumbed?

Many times yes, that is exactly how it gets plumbed. However you can also plumb all fittings on the CAC line (feed & return from LC) and little to no effect on IAT2 temperatures as referenced previously.

Good questions.

Van

 

[Bad Company]

The reason for not using ice water to cool the supercharger front bearing plate is due to contraction of the bearing plate. If the front bearing plate is subjected to extreme cold coolant on a warm day at high boost, the bearing plate contracts too much in relationship to the complete SC case and rear bearing plate. The tolerance between the rotors is 0.003". The extreme temperature difference between the ice water system and using engine coolant is enough for the bearing housing to contract at the front of the SC and causes the rotors to hit each other.

Yet why can you drive this car during freezing temperatures with vacuum through the SC and not have a problem? Again this is due to expansion and contraction in a equal manner from the front to rear of the case. The Ambient air temperture is controlling the contraction of the complete SC. Yet you can immediately put the SC into a boost situation and not thermal shock the front bearing plate, if you plumb the LC into the return side of the intercooler system. This gives you heated coolant as soon as the water exits the intercooler to enter the SC. Even though the water as it exits the HE could be below freezing temperatures. It is a balancing act between expansion and contraction and the 0.003" of clearance.

This is a constant that everybody should also think about and why the LC of the bearing plate is helpful at controlling this tolerance in a screw type SC and its front exit port.

For every 1 psi of boost you increase the air temperature at the exit port of the SC 10*F

Here is a sample math problem to demonstrate

90*F outside ambient temperature + 18 psi of boost = 270*F air temperature exiting the SC. 90*F intake air + 180*F temperature rise due to compressing the air to 18 psi = 270*F at the front of a screw type supercharger. This is a big difference in the temperature from the rear bearing entry area for the air entering the SC and the front bearing and air exit port of the SC. The higher the boost the worse this gets and the more the case and bearing plates expand at different rates from the rear to the front of the SC housing. KB is minimizing the effects of the temperature differential from the rear of the case to the front by cooling the front of the SC

 

[NIXDSG]

FYI, called KB today, attached is a picture they sent me on where to install the LC lines.

Nic