L&M Engine makes 1000hp with TVS@15-16psi

[93 347 Cobra]

They engaged in criminal fraud. Charging someone for parts and installing others then lying about is "by definition" fraud. To hell with L&M, they're not a paid vendor and with all the denials, lies, and finger pointing they engaged in afterwards anyone who buys an engine from them is endorsing that kind of behavior towards another member.

 

[Imatk]

Someone is definitely asking people to post positive feedback on this site because of badcompany's negative thread. Its inevitable.

If I was the owner of L&M I would make a thread and say.... Bad company we will warranty your faulty engine and acknowledge we screwed up or evo screwed up. We will take it on the nose because we stand behind our work. That would be all the positive press they would need. Without this everyone that reads this forum will think 10 times before bringing their motor there. If they don't it's just plain stupid to not doubt what they are up to. You should always get what you pay for and trust your engine builder.. not find out after a failure that he used inferior parts without asking the owner first. Evo being involved or not.

Agreed 100 percent. All of this negative press they're getting from that thread could have easily been avoided.

None of us have a way of knowing both sides to the story... we weren't there.

But after reading through BC's thread his analysis seems pretty damn solid to me.

At the very least they should have worked with him to get his engine working again.

 

[07 Black Beauty]

Agreed 100 percent. All of this negative press they're getting from that thread could have easily been avoided.

None of us have a way of knowing both sides to the story... we weren't there.

But after reading through BC's thread his analysis seems pretty damn solid to me.

At the very least they should have worked with him to get his engine working again.

Agreed, you spend the kind of money he did to have a motor built that gives out during the break in period. They should have definitely worked with him to make it right.

 

[carguy19]

Not for nothing, but I learned my lesson young when I had one of my first motors built. It was a 408 inch windsor. The crank wasnt balanced right. I put the whole motor in the car, drove the car. It shook like a woman's vibrator. And the builder gave me every excuse how it was the rear, the driveshaft etc.

So every time from then on I have my motors built, then I pay extra to have the motor broken in and measured on an engine dyno which I supervise. I reserve 90 min and pay for all the fluids and fuel they want for piece of mind.

Everyone learns lessons along the way. I, like bad company, learned the hard and expensive way.

 

[Imatk]

Not for nothing, but I learned my lesson young when I had one of my first motors built. It was a 408 inch windsor. The crank wasnt balanced right. I put the whole motor in the car, drove the car. It shook like a woman's vibrator. And the builder gave me every excuse how it was the rear, the driveshaft etc.

So every time from then on I have my motors built, then I pay extra to have the motor broken in and measured on an engine dyno which I supervise. I reserve 90 min and pay for all the fluids and fuel they want for piece of mind.

Everyone learns lessons along the way. I, like bad company, learned the hard and expensive way.

That's an awesome idea man... I never even thought of something like that.

So do builders generally have an engine dyno or do you just pay to have it sent somewhere that does?

Either way this sounds like an excellent way to prevent any finger pointing.

 

[Snoopy49]

One problem with the break in on the dyno is it doesn't account for the time bomb factor. Kurt's engine may have survived a 90 minute dyno run on an engine dyno and still failed in the car.

 

[carguy19]

One problem with the break in on the dyno is it doesn't account for the time bomb factor. Kurt's engine may have survived a 90 minute dyno run on an engine dyno and still failed in the car.

A break in with a load from the dyno and then some real hard hard pulls to redline for an hour and a half is probably way more abuse then Kurt would have put on his car in the first 3 months (nevermind 300 miles and never beating it).

Anything can happen, but that much abuse and break in should show any flaws that would occur with most motors.

 

[Snoopy49]

One of things I like about an engine dyno is that you have access to all the potential leaks and if you have a flat tappet engine you can hopefully avoid a flattened cam lobe.

carguy19,
I don't think Kurt's engine would have stood up to your testing procedure.

 

[carguy19]

One of things I like about an engine dyno is that you have access to all the potential leaks and if you have a flat tappet engine you can hopefully avoid a flattened cam lobe.

carguy19,
I don't think Kurt's engine would have stood up to your testing procedure.

I know thats what i am saying. A few pulls to 7000 rpm and that cam bolt would have walked out for sure. If it didnt when they put a load on it to seat the rings and break it in.

I sincerely believe Kurt that he was properly breaking his car in and babying it. I wouldn't beat the snot out of my new $25K motor w no run time on it.

We all have been burned in the past. Our hobby is an expensive one that teaches you lessons you never forget.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

I spoke to Michael Rauscher. There was ZERO MALFEASANCE AFORETHOUGHT on the motor that L&M was contracted to build that is being referenced in this thread and another. He also confirmed verbally that the swapping of the rods was done to accommodate finishing the engine as the lighter weight rods were still on back order and it was an approved change and not something they did without approval.

People keep throwing verbatim around that L&M would consciously and knowingly build a motor to fail. You don't operate a business for 30 plus years with malicious intent.

To the OP. Congrats all of the accomplishments. Glad you were able to slow that thing down!!

 

[Softballer77]

According to BC, he never gave approval. Wouldn't he be the one to do so? I know I'd be pissed if someone swapped rods on me with out my prior approval.

No one said it was "built to fail out of malicious intent". What the evidence showed was that something went wrong with the build of that motor. According to the reading, the motor sat waiting for someone to look into it to fix it. And sat it did....for a LONG period of time in my opinion, and obviously the ops.

As I said in another post: If someone brings your product back because it destroyed itself, and you have a even a 1% possibility of it being your fault, you get it looked at pronto. If you want to piss your customer off even more than he was for sinking $25k into a motor that just ate itself, let it sit.....I guarantee you it won't be a happy ending for the business responsible. And still....not a word from anyone on that side.

Legal ties are one thing. I get that. But if it were my business, I wouldn't need anyone to support me. I'd be here supporting myself. And no one has heard a word from anyone on that side here.

 

[Bad Company]

I spoke to Michael Rauscher. There was ZERO MALFEASANCE AFORETHOUGHT on the motor that L&M was contracted to build that is being referenced in this thread and another. He also confirmed verbally that the swapping of the rods was done to accommodate finishing the engine as the lighter weight rods were still on back order and it was an approved change and not something they did without approval.

People keep throwing verbatim around that L&M would consciously and knowingly build a motor to fail. You don't operate a business for 30 plus years with malicious intent.

To the OP. Congrats all of the accomplishments. Glad you were able to slow that thing down!!

Then why did Michael personally point out on his Invoice to Evolution Performance the fact that my engine had Manley part number 14321-8 rods installed. Yet when he went to make me a copy of that very same Invoice the part number of the rods wasn't on it?

When I questioned Fred Cook about the rods being the light weight rods, he read me an email verbatim addressed to L & M that was dated 1 year before my engine build that instructed Michael that from this date forward ALL engines built for Evolution Performance will be built using Manley part number 14321-8 and that no engine was to be built using the light weight rods. Unfortunately I didn't ask Fred to forward me that email, otherwise I'd post it for you to read for yourself.

I gotta love it, now that the alliance between L & M and Evolution is gone, they both are now pointing fingers at each other for my problems.

 

[Bad Company]

I don't know how many pulls or anything else about the amount of time it takes Jon Lund to dyno one on these engines. As can be seen in Lund's email the E85 was also drained for Lund to tune the car for pump gas, Again I don't know how long or how many dyno runs it lasted doing this

The other thing is the valve spring harmonics with Michael's cam designs is very high. Who's to say that the cheap 12mm Ford bolt at its lower torque/clamp load could stay in place with these harsh harmonics. I've never seen a camshaft that required counterweights to be added to it to try and dampen valve spring harmonics in the past. Here is a picture to prove that point. The counterweight is so large the valve covers need to be modified by grinding the inside of valve cover down to keep the counterweight from striking the cover. Michael personally read an email from Fred at Evo about picking a camshaft for a street car, yet he picked a cam with the highest possible valve lift he could. He didn't take into consideration that this car could be driven for 100s of miles at a time. The first day I drove the car with the new engine, I put roughly 175 miles on it. How much expansion of the aluminum cylinder head occurred between the valve seat and the valve keeper? Yet the valve in that aluminum cylinder head, which is steel expands at a much smaller rate of expansion when compared to aluminum.

 

[Bad Company]

I spoke to Michael Rauscher. There was ZERO MALFEASANCE AFORETHOUGHT on the motor that L&M was contracted to build that is being referenced in this thread and another. He also confirmed verbally that the swapping of the rods was done to accommodate finishing the engine as the lighter weight rods were still on back order and it was an approved change and not something they did without approval.

People keep throwing verbatim around that L&M would consciously and knowingly build a motor to fail. You don't operate a business for 30 plus years with malicious intent.

To the OP. Congrats all of the accomplishments. Glad you were able to slow that thing down!!

Are you saying that I gave approval of the rod change?

Because that isn't true

Are you saying that Evolution gave approval of the rod swap, yet nevr informed me of it?

Are you saying that while I was on the phone Jan 28th of this year chewing Fred out about the rods after I left BES that the email Fred read to me verbatim was a lie?

Are you saying that I'm lying when Michael showed me his Invoice to Evo with the Manley part number that he made a point to point out to me is a lie?

Are you saying that when I called Fred Cook back a few days later to ask him about what was being done about resolving this and why did my engine have the light weight engines in it that Michael's admission to Fred about substituting the rods was a lie?

You need to think about everything I've posted and added up what I'm saying before blind loyalty

Because right now you are calling me a liar, along with others.

 

[Imatk]

For me, and this is just my opinion of course, all that really matters in this whole matter is what happened after the failure.

25k and BC was told to pound sand after his motor grenaded at a little over 300 miles on the clock?

This is why I would never do business with L&M or Evo... and I suspect my feelings are shared with many others that have read his thread.

Everyone makes mistakes... happens every single day no matter how good you are at your profession. But what matters to me is what happens AFTER that mistake... and they dropped the ball badly.

 

[Bad Company]

Van

Ask Michael about the guy that was with me at the time I picked up the engine from him. I'm sure he will remember him. Why? Because he was wearing his Championship Jacket for his pulling truck. Michael wanted specifics about the engine in the truck.

That guy is certified by Eaton Corporation in failure analysis..........would you like his opinion on the failure?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van

Ask Michael about the guy that was with me at the time I picked up the engine from him. I'm sure he will remember him. Why? Because he was wearing his Championship Jacket for his pulling truck. Michael wanted specifics about the engine in the truck.

That guy is certified by Eaton Corporation in failure analysis..........would you like his opinion on the failure?

Oh, so he's certified by a "Corporation" so that makes him an expert now? You have differing opinions on the failure and you've selected to go with what best suits your needs regardless of input. Too many hands on the corpse to have a proper diagnosis at the point you took the engine and began your "non-expert diagnosis and opinion"

Just because he's got a championship jacket doesn't make him an expert on all things engine related. Last I checked Eaton Corporation wasn't in the DOHC Engine Building Department but they do make superchargers and golf club grips.

I'm sure he knows his way around a Diesel Engine quite well but we're not talking about a Diesel. My eyes hurt I'm going to go see a Podiatrist.

 

[Tob]

Guys, I'm closing this one too as the shit-on-fan has reached critical mass.