I am an engine builder. suppose i buy pistons from Brand X and install them without checking the specs on them. then one of them fails. whould i be at fault or the company that made the pistons? dicsuss.
Lets just say..
- Thread starter runsonboost
- Start date
With what is said i say you. When ever you buy something it has instructions on do's and dont's. I remember putting together a 351 w using keith black pistons. They require a larger top ring gap or the ring could butt in the bore and cause the top of the piston to seperate. But who follow directions now a days?
I would say you would be at fault, but at the same time so would the company if its said to fit right into the specs they give. However if its a messed up piston that caused the issue then I would say company. Either way you should of checked them before installing them. Pistons aren't cheap.
for arguements sake we'll say that 1 piston was 360 grams while the other 7 were 400. and i put the engine together without weighing them.
You sound like your doing one of two things.
#1 u built someone a motor a f'ed up
#2 Someone built u a motor and F'ed up ,and your trying to get proof they didnt do things right . Possibly without naming any names before u jump to conclusion?
When parts are balanced they should be within 1 gram + or - . On a street motor like a honda civic ect. it wont really matter.
Yes. Someone built me a motor in which 1 piston was physically different and 40 grams light and claims it wasn't their fault that it failed. I don't want to name any names just yet.
I dont think it being lighter caused a failure. not knowing the condition of this piston/engine combination doesnt help us give u info. There could be many different causes on their end and your end. For all we know you could of got a bad tank of gas and detonated.
The piston can look or appear different as long as it is the same cc as the others , so your compression ratio doesnt vary from the others. 40 grams really is not going to cause a failure. The engine may not rev or run as smoothly as a fully balanced engine. people stress out about compression test , as long as your within 10-15% on a street motor it isnt going to really matter. Now when all out dedicated drag car you want everything dead on cause that last 10th of a sec counts.
Hope this helped....maybe you could post some pics of this piston/motor?
The faulty piston was actually supposed to be a flat top so when the 18cc dish was cut it left the dome thickness at 24 thousands thick, it failed on startup and began smoking. The differences where on the bottom, oiling holes where in different spots and pin boss to dome measurements were a 1/4 inch different. Pictures and complete story are posted on modularfords under the same user name.
failing on start up ...something was wrong when assembled. Ill have to look into your modularfords post.
mmr................
We would like to reply to this thread because there are many factors involved. We are very sorry that the customer had to deal with these issues and we would never wish them upon anyone.
Firstly for those that do not know this happened in late 2009/early 2010.
ALL pistons are weighed prior to assembly, our weights were 100% correct from piston to piston. We are not suprised however that the piston in question weighed less after the failure- after all, it was missing a piece.
The engine was never sent to MMR, at no point were we ever even given a chance to inspect it or try to make good on the claimed piston failure.
The piston was later sent directly to Manley from the customer. Manley responded with a letter shortly after seeing this and other posts from this member.
I am disappointed to see that Nate ****** (removed for privacy) has libeled Modular Mustang Racing by implying it was MMR's fault....
In personal phone conversations with Nate, I explained that it was Manley's manufacturing defect that caused the piston to fail and that MMR followed Manley's recommended assembly procedures and that they are not at fault.I apologize on Manley's behalf for the failure of Nate ****** motor and the problems he has created for MMR.
Best regards,
Gary ******* (removed for Privacy)
Regional Sales Manager
Manley Performance Products
MMR, helped this customer as much as possible given that the engine was never inspected by us. We worked with the customer on the phone and told him that if he had a problem dealing with Manley that we would be happy to step in and help. That we did. We contacted them regarding the issue and asked that they do everything and anything possible to help the customer. Shortly after Manley did the right thing and paid all of the invoices that the customer presented them.
We commend Manley products for standing behind this failure and can tell you Manley has since implemented other actions to prevent this from ever happening again. To date MMR has sold over 40,320 Manley Pistons and has never seen or heard of any other similar incident.
It is a shame that the customer has continued to place blame on MMR, we can surely understand his frustration and wish him the best of luck and offer our apologies for the situation that he was put into.
Mark Luton
President
Modular Mustang Racing
Modular Motorsports Inc.
Firstly for those that do not know this happened in late 2009/early 2010.
ALL pistons are weighed prior to assembly, our weights were 100% correct from piston to piston. We are not suprised however that the piston in question weighed less after the failure- after all, it was missing a piece.
The engine was never sent to MMR, at no point were we ever even given a chance to inspect it or try to make good on the claimed piston failure.
The piston was later sent directly to Manley from the customer. Manley responded with a letter shortly after seeing this and other posts from this member.
I am disappointed to see that Nate ****** (removed for privacy) has libeled Modular Mustang Racing by implying it was MMR's fault....
In personal phone conversations with Nate, I explained that it was Manley's manufacturing defect that caused the piston to fail and that MMR followed Manley's recommended assembly procedures and that they are not at fault.I apologize on Manley's behalf for the failure of Nate ****** motor and the problems he has created for MMR.
Best regards,
Gary ******* (removed for Privacy)
Regional Sales Manager
Manley Performance Products
MMR, helped this customer as much as possible given that the engine was never inspected by us. We worked with the customer on the phone and told him that if he had a problem dealing with Manley that we would be happy to step in and help. That we did. We contacted them regarding the issue and asked that they do everything and anything possible to help the customer. Shortly after Manley did the right thing and paid all of the invoices that the customer presented them.
We commend Manley products for standing behind this failure and can tell you Manley has since implemented other actions to prevent this from ever happening again. To date MMR has sold over 40,320 Manley Pistons and has never seen or heard of any other similar incident.
It is a shame that the customer has continued to place blame on MMR, we can surely understand his frustration and wish him the best of luck and offer our apologies for the situation that he was put into.
Mark Luton
President
Modular Mustang Racing
Modular Motorsports Inc.
Not much more to be said, especially since Manley admitted failure on their part.
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agreed......case closed.:bored:
I'm confused Mark, you told me on the phone that you didn't actually weigh the piston because Manley had already marked the weights on the box. Gary at Manley also told me that it was not your fault because they marked the box with an incorrect weight. I'll post pictures of the pistons when I get home tonight, but a dime size piece of the piston does not weigh 40 grams. I would have sent the engine back to you, however you offered to come pick up the car and bring it to your shop before you knew there was a hole in one of the pistons. Also when I had given up and decided to send the motor back and get a refund after you inspected the engine, you told me it was the dumbest thing you have heard all week. You say your customer service is the best in the business, you didn't help me one bit. I got Garys number from another shop and delt with them on my own.
here you can see how thin the material was, the hole is about the size of a dime. unless these were made of lead there is no way that piece weighs 40 grams. note pin boss to deck distance.
note pin boss to deck distance on this piston
you never got a chance to inspect the motor because you wanted me to pay to ship it back to you, and i didnt have the money. like i said, the first time i called you and told you it was smoking you said if the shop couldnt figure it out you would come down and tow it back to your shop and take a look at it. apparently that was no longer an option once you found out there was a hole in a motor that had been driven 1 block.
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I'm sorry, but you stating a piston is 40 grams light without mentioning that it has what appears to be a quarter sized hole in it and the missing piece has not been recovered from the oil pan or where ever and added to the scale, is just not right.
A piston with a piece missing from it is going to weigh less.
What are you trying to accomplish here?
i actually did have the piece recovered from my oil pan, i gave the stock pan to a friend to use for his build and lost track of the piece. i didnt weigh it but it was only as thick as a coke can and about the size of a dime. my intent from the thread originally was NOT to bring up MMR, but only to see if im the only one that thinks the person that assembles the engine is responsible for failure if defective parts are used. that was the reason for being so vague with my first post.
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