CPRsm
Active Member
Depends on the single kit. Ours are forward and custom. The BBK wouldn't work
Long tube headers, which Primary size is 'best'?
- Thread starter Shaun@AED
- Start date
Shaun, these are the Pypes Coyote headers. Is this the correct design for the firing order??
I don't have the Pypes LT's but these used to be the talk of being correctly orientated.
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Shaun, these are the Pypes Coyote headers. Is this the correct design for the firing order??
I don't have the Pypes LT's but these used to be the talk of being correctly orientated.
Nope
Check out the firing order. #6 fires right after #8, and 1 right after 2. Equal length primaries results on the blow down pulses of these 4 cylinders mashing into each other which causes low VE on cylinders 1 and 6.
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thanks for your quick reply!
There's far more to proper header design that JUST the primary size.
This thread was simply to give those looking for an answer to the question: "Which size primary do I get?'.
To which the answer is: There is no reason to go with large primaries if the rest of your system is restrictive.
As far as my opinion on all the different headers available... None are 100% right IMO, some are simply better than others.
Stock headers are actually quite a good compromise in some ways. The design was done well, they are just a little too restrictive and could use a bit more length IMO.
FWIW we routinely see the most power from Kooks MidLength's. Be it 1&3/4 or 1&7/8, the difference is normally in the low end only (more low end with the smaller primaries). FYI, the shorter the primaries (given the diameter), the higher the RPM at which the negative pressure pulse will help pull out extra exhaust gasses. Obviously you can go 'too short', but most of these long tube headers are 'too long' to take advantage of the negative pressure at the appropriate RPM (peak HP). This is where I think the Kooks got it right with their Mid Lengths and likely why we see them produce consistently high HP.
This thread was simply to give those looking for an answer to the question: "Which size primary do I get?'.
To which the answer is: There is no reason to go with large primaries if the rest of your system is restrictive.
As far as my opinion on all the different headers available... None are 100% right IMO, some are simply better than others.
Stock headers are actually quite a good compromise in some ways. The design was done well, they are just a little too restrictive and could use a bit more length IMO.
FWIW we routinely see the most power from Kooks MidLength's. Be it 1&3/4 or 1&7/8, the difference is normally in the low end only (more low end with the smaller primaries). FYI, the shorter the primaries (given the diameter), the higher the RPM at which the negative pressure pulse will help pull out extra exhaust gasses. Obviously you can go 'too short', but most of these long tube headers are 'too long' to take advantage of the negative pressure at the appropriate RPM (peak HP). This is where I think the Kooks got it right with their Mid Lengths and likely why we see them produce consistently high HP.
I just put down 441 hp 408 TQ with kooks long tube 1 3/4
What else do you have?
Off road x-pipe , steeda cold air intake , stainless works catback , E85 through a auto with 3.15 gears.
Oh and AED tune
Oh and AED tune
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Do you like the stainless power version for those of us that can't spend a ton on headers?
Thanks for the post. I've been really considering Pypes.
Thanks for the post. I've been really considering Pypes.
You might want to recheck that. Every source that I have looked at has that as the firing order for the Coyote 5.0, in fact I'm pretty sure I made that some years back with a thread on header discussion.
CPRsm
Active Member
Last I saw the coyote has the firing order of the old flatheads. (1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2)
That puts 6 after 8 and 1 after 2. Different than all the firing orders since '69. Really curious as to why
That puts 6 after 8 and 1 after 2. Different than all the firing orders since '69. Really curious as to why
You may have mis-read my post.
The 'Nope' was in reference to the question posted: 'Shaun, these are the Pypes Coyote headers. Is this the correct design for the firing order??'
Then a brief explaination of why (due to the blow down pulses vs firing order).
Your numbers are high but they probably attribute from your 3.15s. With 3.73, your times would be a lot quicker but it would lower dyno numbers.
Actually no his times would not be quicker with 3.73's.
been seeing a few guys putting kooks shorties on their boss 302s over at boss302forum.com
shaun, youve told me they are a nice shorty, but to go for the mid lengths. any people with real world results on here? you said the stock manifolds are a good compromise but too restrictive. shouldnt these be perfect?
shaun, youve told me they are a nice shorty, but to go for the mid lengths. any people with real world results on here? you said the stock manifolds are a good compromise but too restrictive. shouldnt these be perfect?
Is there anything in the budget world close to getting the same results as kooks?
We've done a few Kooks shorty setups, and many Mid Length setups, but nothing back to back on the same car for accurate results.
I an tell you every Mid Length Kooks setup has produced impressive power on my dyno after tuning, the shorties have also performed well, but not to the same level. We just did a Kooks Shorty install and tune with Airaid CAI and the setup put down 426 RWHP (M6), and we also did a kooks midlength install that put down over 440RWHP with a Boss IM and Airaid CAI in another M6. Again not an accurate comparison, but these 2 cars are actually 'on par' with other cars we've done and similar modifications using the shorties and using the mid lengths.
And of course we do see other cars in the 420-440 range with stock headers. We just did an SCJ setup that put down over 440RW SAE (M6) with stock headers and a custom exhaust system with Flowmaster Outlaw mufflers.
Budget as in Stainless power? Yeah, we've had those on the dyno, as well as the other off-brand knock offs. We've seen fitment issues causing false knock, seen customers have to move the engine over 1/2" to the driver side to get exhaust to clear the frame, seen O2 sensor issues, and as far as power output, they were not impressive. Maybe it was the car, or maybe the rest of the exhaust, it's impossible to say without accurate back to back testing of all the different headers on the SAME vehicle. All I can say is the most impressive cars on my dyno have Kooks exhaust. Sean 04 put down 500RWHP SAE and has run 10.4's with Kooks midlength headers.
We have also seen impressive numbers from American Racing, Borla, and Dynatech, but consistently the Kooks have made the most on my dyno, have good O2 placement, and fitment is normally not an issue. (older kooks stuff had some fitment issues).
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This thread is one of the better ones lately.
Keep up the good work Shaun.
Keep up the good work Shaun.
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