Emails are subject to disclosure via subpoena and FOIA. It would be incredibly foolish to put that out in an official capacity. Someday he could see that in 72 point font on an easel in a court room. Not that I don't completely agree with GEN Mattis and the trooper.
Lost some respect for the 5-0
- Thread starter orlo
- Start date
Emails are subject to disclosure via subpoena and FOIA. It would be incredibly foolish to put that out in an official capacity. Someday he could see that in 72 point font on an easel in a court room. Not that I don't completely agree with GEN Mattis and the trooper.
My read. ASSUMING that the story as told by the OP is factual, the officer was unprofessional. A decent policeman ought to be able to come up with an actual pretext for a fishing trip, and I know that I'm always insulted when I get pulled over on a pretext and the officers story doesn't hold water. Pull me over and tell me I fit the profile of a drug smuggler, I understand that. Actually happened in Pinal County. No hard feelings toward that officer, he was on the ball, got it sorted out right proper and no ticket.
Donut shop is pretty confrontational these days; more so than Smackdown. It appears as long as you are an LEO or defend the Law profession (or are RDJ or have his horseshit attitude toward people) you can be a rude and intolerant jackass in here. Some of you LEO's and Law types should be embarrassed of the behavior that is being allowed in here.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's funny how when someone like this gets a ticket for "something stupid", they use the "don't they have better things to do, like catching drug dealers and murderers" argument.
So these officers were in a neighborhood looking for those types, yet you lost respect for them because YOU were in a shady area at 4am? Got it.
So these officers were in a neighborhood looking for those types, yet you lost respect for them because YOU were in a shady area at 4am? Got it.
I stopped at the stop sign. I wasn't speeding. I had absolutely no drugs or weapons in the car, visible or not. I wasn't driving erratically. My car had no illegal modifications and all of my lights were on and working. I didn't make any gesture towards the police cruiser as I came to the stop sign other than verbally making note of it to my passengers.
And don't try to tell me that the stop was totally reasonable because it was in a bad part of town. Have any of you ever spent considerable time in North Philly? There are no safe areas. So using this pretext, would it be reasonable to stop every car that is driving through North Philly at night?
Either way, that's NOT what this argument is about. And most of you who are eager to bash me (or my choice of education:shrug
are missing this point. The officers told me that the grounds for pulling me over was because I did a rolling stop, which I clearly did not do. End of story. So if you feel so inclined as to post another comment telling me how I should be grateful I didn't get a ticket, stop complaining, or some other nonsense like that, start it with this phrase:
"The officers were clearly justified in blatantly lying to you over the grounds for stopping you because [insert your favorite witty/ smart ass comment]"
Sorry Dad, guess you'll be sending me to my room without dinner tonight? :bored:
Always funny to see you get called out by name RDJ. :lol: Do you even have to post in a thread anymore for someone to get butthurt?
People are so sensitive these days. :lol1:
. ESP. When the " caller outer " is flat out wrong! And there has been a time or two when some clown calls me out before I get to the thread LOL!
Sorry ORLO, I believe the LEO. Been there, done that.
The police man had no righ to pull him over in the first place because he was doing nothing wrong. If the police were suspicious of something then they should have pulled him over and said just that instead of lying about him rolling through a stop sign. I think the lying part is where the respect was lost as the lie affected someone doing nothing wrong.
I stopped at the stop sign. I wasn't speeding. I had absolutely no drugs or weapons in the car, visible or not. I wasn't driving erratically. My car had no illegal modifications and all of my lights were on and working. I didn't make any gesture towards the police cruiser as I came to the stop sign other than verbally making note of it to my passengers.
And don't try to tell me that the stop was totally reasonable because it was in a bad part of town. Have any of you ever spent considerable time in North Philly? There are no safe areas. So using this pretext, would it be reasonable to stop every car that is driving through North Philly at night?
Either way, that's NOT what this argument is about. And most of you who are eager to bash me (or my choice of education:shrug
So if you feel so inclined as to post another comment telling me how I should be grateful I didn't get a ticket, stop complaining, or some other nonsense like that, start it with this phrase:
"The officers were clearly justified in blatantly lying to you over the grounds for stopping you because [insert your favorite witty/ smart ass comment]"
If these are LEO's chiming in against you then God help this country :nonono:
OP, have you filed a complaint with the officers' department yet? Have you requested the officers' notes throught FOIA yet? Are you going to sue them for stopping you and lying about the PC? If you answer "no" to any or all of these questions, then quit bitching about your bad experience in Philly. Are there cops out there that make PC up? Absolutely, but letting one instance that your're butthurt over making you lose respect for all LEO's is pretty childish. I'd be willling to bet this wasn't the first time in your life that you may or may not have been lied to.
motoman991
Banned
Cops can do whatever they want.
Tough part of town...shiney new car...4 am. The LEO was doing his job by being suspicious and frankly just wanted to eyeball you to see what was up. I'm sure he knew it wasn't a righteous collar (so to speak) and he didn't plan on trying to make it stick. Just checking you out. We wanted to see your reaction as he approached which could have hinted at something really going on. I probably would have commended him for doing his job...after lightly haggling about the lame bust, of course. If he wrote me I would have been PO'd, but I'm sure he wouldn't have. And I as I'm sure he said before he walked away..."and get the GPS fixed".
The problem is without PC it's ILLEGAL for a LEO to stop just to "see what's up".... As long as I obey traffic rules etc then there is no PC to stop me no matter what neighborhood I'm in. That's the law last time I checked. Unless it was decided at some point to suspend the constitution in "rough" neighborhoods between 1 and 5 am... I must have missed that memo
oke:
The problem is without PC it's ILLEGAL for a LEO to stop just to "see what's up".... As long as I obey traffic rules etc then there is no PC to stop me no matter what neighborhood I'm in. That's the law last time I checked. Unless it was decided at some point to suspend the constitution in "rough" neighborhoods between 1 and 5 am... I must have missed that memo
When was the last time you checked? Was it after 1968? Because if it was after 1968 you would be totally wrong. See Terry v. Ohio.
Here is a brief synopsis written by counsel at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco Georgia. Pay particular attention to #3 - facts supporting a Terry Stop.
http://www.fletc.gov/training/progr...-by-subject/4th-amendment/terrystopupdate.pdf
The problem is without PC it's ILLEGAL for a LEO to stop just to "see what's up".... As long as I obey traffic rules etc then there is no PC to stop me no matter what neighborhood I'm in. That's the law last time I checked. Unless it was decided at some point to suspend the constitution in "rough" neighborhoods between 1 and 5 am... I must have missed that memo
I guess you can get all "PC" about PC, but in this case the officer was looking for bigger fish to fry and certainly never intended to write the OP for the bogus rolling stop. So... the OP wouldn't be inclined to complain since other than a temporary hassle no damage was done. I would give the police some latitude based on reasonable suspicion. My guess is he construed the barely longer stop by the OP as suspicious...as if a driver with nefarious intent stopped suddenly saw the LEO and paused to decide what to do next. Yeah, a bit of a stretch, but probably not to a vigilent officer on the beat in a rough neighborhood between 1 and 5 am.
I am all up for legal restraints on LE to protect our constitutional rights...but a certain amount of working latitude is required. This case was a no-biggie. Having lived in Newark, NJ for much of my "formative" life I have seen my share of check stops (chalk it up to too much youth and too much party at the time) and reasonable police suspicion, but my friends and I never had a problem with it. Nothing, but respect for the police.
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Alrighty then!!.... I bow to your superior knowledge!!:beer:
Although THIS caught my eye- under this "Rule" involving vehicles what is reasonable? Is the mere fact that you are driving in a neighborhood considered reasonable suspicion?"..... is there any case law where someone has fought this and won? Just curious to see if and what the "Paul Harvey" is on this!!
To me "Reasonable Suspicion" would be: violating a traffic law, stopping by a specific known drug house, Stopping and passing something or accepting something from someone on the street.
Reasonable suspicion to ME is not driving a nice car in a bad neighborhood while obeying ALL traffic laws late at night or early in the morning. It just doesn't pass the "smell test" for me. Sorry
THE “ROLLING” TERRY STOP
Law enforcement officers should remember
that, just as a person may be subjected to a
lawful Terry stop while walking down the
street, so too can a moving auto be pulled over
(forcibly - via use of emergency lights and
siren) if valid reasonable suspicion exists to
support the stop.
3
Both uniformed and plainclothes personnel can employ this concept.
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Since when is driving illegal (also known as "cruising") even at 4am? How would the police have known he wasn't on his way to work? He stated his GPS kicked off and he was lost. Instead of approaching the car and asking "anything I can help you with" or "are you perhaps lost?" They accused him of running a stop sign that he states he stopped at.
I am taking the OP at his word, but if all he says is correct, I can see why he lost respect for the 5-0. OP is also in dental school, so clearly he's done a few things right in his life.
OP I've had similar encounters (being pulled over for being young and in a nice car, being harassed for riding around with friends, etc), I just give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time, that they often have a shitty job that doesn't pay great. They are like teachers, underpaid and under appreciated. Sad part is for every one like you or I they pull over for "no reason" there are 3 that are breaking the law, causing problems, etc. Law of averages says if you do it long enough and have enough encounters, you're going to make a mistake. Your's was circumstantial, but at least they were nice enough to basically admit they were wrong by not issuing you a bullshit ticket, even if they did lie about pulling you over.
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Under #3 there are listed a bunch of indications including time of day, location, behavior, inappropriate dress for time and weather, etc. It is usually the totality of circumstances based on officer experience and knowledge of the area that leads to a Terry Stop.
In most circumstances those things would be probable cause that there is/was a crime being committed.
It is the totality of circumstances: out of place car for the area (too nice for the neighborhood, too crappy for the neighborhood), time of day (no cars out at that time of day), bad neighborhood people do not spend an extra second at stop signs and usually do a rolling stop, etc.
It is a judgment call based on the totality of circumstances and after a brief investigatory stop the officer's suspicions are either confirmed or relieved. In this case they were relieved and the person sent on his way after a brief encounter.
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