Metco idler broke. Pics inside
- Thread starter BROK3N-SVT
- Start date
Glad I could help Tob. You did a great job with all that stuff and I have no clue what any of it means. Lol.
Help? You had to deal with this failure and you brought it to everyone's attention here. It'd be great to hear anything about the installation of the new pieces from Metco. You opened a lot of people's eyes with this one, including mine. Thanks for supplying the dimensions and photos and good luck with the new piece!
Excellent tech approach to a problem...You had some smoke exiting an Old Engineers ears !! Thanks You
No big deal buddy. I wanted to see what you had going on anyways. I will defiantly post pictures with the new piece. I'm not going to put it on until next Monday. That's when the belt should be here.
I am absolutely blown away by the advertised tensions in the belts. To reach 300 lbs of tension, that means the tensioner would have to be exerting a force of 600 pounds! That would also mean a force of about 600 pounds on the supercharger snout! Wow
Tob. Here are the pictures. You can see the hub slides in to either of the 3 positions and then it tightened down.
^^^I have thought more about this thread and am wondering why two of the three positions above have been used?
On other Metco idlers I have seen a single position (not multi-position) for specific applications, oem Eaton, Whipple, KB, etc. Why would two different positions have been used on the same car with this idler? Was it a pulley change? and if so, is that the position that is recommended by Metco for this idler with that specific pulley diameter on that specific S/C?
R
I think there are too many variables to give an exact answer. Between the SC pulley sizes, 90mm idler or not, stock/10%/15% crank, and a used or new belt, I'm surprised all 3 of those positions haven't been used.
I swap pulleys on occasion for different boost levels, and for each one, I have a "system" to keep my belt in the range I need it. Depending on the pulley I swap to, I'll install/uninstall a 90mm idler, and run one of three belts. Two of my belts are the same part number, but one has stretched slightly, and fits a larger pulley. A newer belt in that same size doesn't fit that pulley, but it fits my smaller pulley perfectly.
Anyway, belt sizes/fitment aren't exact. That's why we have tensioners, and thankfully, adjustable idlers.
I swap pulleys on occasion for different boost levels, and for each one, I have a "system" to keep my belt in the range I need it. Depending on the pulley I swap to, I'll install/uninstall a 90mm idler, and run one of three belts. Two of my belts are the same part number, but one has stretched slightly, and fits a larger pulley. A newer belt in that same size doesn't fit that pulley, but it fits my smaller pulley perfectly.
Anyway, belt sizes/fitment aren't exact. That's why we have tensioners, and thankfully, adjustable idlers.
Couldn't an over amount of tension be put on one of these idlers causing the bracket, the idler or both to fail if it was overloaded by an over tension adjustment install? Like a tighter idler adj. hole used than was recommended by the mfg. of the tensioner?
R
Last edited:
I think at that point you are likely to find other weak links in the chain, especially if you push the car harder than most. When a system like this is lo longer in sync with the original design window and the loads (such as what Serpent mentioned up above from the tension chart) are or get out of whack......well, boom.
This was a great thread because, for me, it really surfaced the issue of things needing to work in harmony, right down to a dang idler pulley. It's so important to take an "approach" to modding, rather than just throwing mods at a car. More often than not throwing mods at a car results in disappointment or let down instead of catastrophic failure, but this thread really shows how there is so much in the details of all aspects of the car that even seemingly straight forward mods can lead to a less than desired outcome. Good thought provoking stuff in here.
Tucker
Active Member
Over the past 10 years we have sold thousands of Metco idlers and this is the first and only failure I've seen.
Rick, Christy and Aaron at metco are the BEST and stand behind their product.
No need to reinvent the wheel over 1 failure. Call them, get it replaced and enjoy the car!
Glad your happy!
Jay
Rick, Christy and Aaron at metco are the BEST and stand behind their product.
No need to reinvent the wheel over 1 failure. Call them, get it replaced and enjoy the car!
Glad your happy!
Jay
19cobra93 hit the mail on the head. It was a when I was running a different pulley and belt. I have tried a few different setups on my car so far.
Tucker, I felt with Rick. He took care of me. Crazy that I'm the only one this happened to in the years it's been around. With the simulation that Tob came up with, if you have any defect in the material, I'm sure this will happen.
Tucker, I felt with Rick. He took care of me. Crazy that I'm the only one this happened to in the years it's been around. With the simulation that Tob came up with, if you have any defect in the material, I'm sure this will happen.
I am also glad that a lot of people are learning new things from this thread. I've also learned quite a bit from it.
Tob, my gates belt that got shredded was from Van originally. This one was in the market and a great price brand new so I couldn't pass it up. If I'm not happy with the size then I will be going straight to Van for another one.
Tob, my gates belt that got shredded was from Van originally. This one was in the market and a great price brand new so I couldn't pass it up. If I'm not happy with the size then I will be going straight to Van for another one.
Jay, I'll be straight up about this. I'm guilty of over-researching (if that's even possible) a given subject before I formulate a technical opinion. I wholeheartedly agree with you about the people behind the scenes at Metco. In most every instance where I could find a clear fault in a Metco design (or otherwise), the customer was made whole. From a customer service perspective you simply can't do better than that.
My intent within the framework that is this thread, was to take a closer look at the specific failure suffered by the OP of a Metco manufactured piece. While a complete metallurgical analysis would no doubt have helped, that probably isn't going to happen. There has been mention of a "defect" which implies some sort of issue with the 6061-T6 base material (if I read those that have suggested it very well). My gut instinct, which is far from scientific, doesn't lend that assumption much credence. I'm convinced that the issue lies in the design. And while many may have not suffered the same issue I can't rationalize the failure as being some sort of anomaly, because it isn't. I'm not trying argue with you for arguments sake. I'm merely trying to better understand what I would consider as a design flaw. Not trying to "reinvent the wheel over 1 failure" as this isn't the first. Here's some data from a thread that you actually posted in about a gentleman that suffered a near identical failure of the same generation idler bracket almost four years ago...
It was mentioned later in that thread that "Kent at Evo Performance says he has seen it 3 times." I can't verify that statement or whether Kent was implying that only Metco brackets suffered those failures. And while I don't normally post links to outside forums, I'll do so for tech's sake in this one. Here it is. Maybe you never checked back in to that thread as you posted ahead of the individual that suffered the failure by three posts (post #15 and #18 respectively). The bottom line is, the thread here at SVTP is not indicative of a first time failure. Evidence Metco's attention to it by filling the windows they were cutting out in prior iterations. There is commonality in these failures that cannot be denied. Foremost in my mind would be to verify that the factory tensioner is within specification. If there was a condition such as too much deflection under certain dynamic conditions (on/off throttle under high loads, such as when shifting, etc) I could see the belt "slamming" the auxiliary idler pulley with a force that exceeds the design of the bracket as well as the properties of the material used for the bracket.
No so crazy anymore, huh?
Which belt are you using?
IM NOT ALONE!
The gates green that shredded was k100830hd. The one I just bough on the market is K120842HD
It's a little longer but I think it will be okay. Stock belt don't slip when I have the idler on (I don't know what size stock is). But if this one is too long then I can always adjust the idler to pick up the slack. It was $30 +shipping and is brand new. If it don't work, I'll be talking to Van.
The gates green that shredded was k100830hd. The one I just bough on the market is K120842HD
It's a little longer but I think it will be okay. Stock belt don't slip when I have the idler on (I don't know what size stock is). But if this one is too long then I can always adjust the idler to pick up the slack. It was $30 +shipping and is brand new. If it don't work, I'll be talking to Van.
I want a blue one but it's too expensive for me right now and I'm need a few other things too.
Van@RevanRacing
Active Member
IM NOT ALONE!
The gates green that shredded was k100830hd. The one I just bough on the market is K120842HD
It's a little longer but I think it will be okay. Stock belt don't slip when I have the idler on (I don't know what size stock is). But if this one is too long then I can always adjust the idler to pick up the slack. It was $30 +shipping and is brand new. If it don't work, I'll be talking to Van.
The 84" Blue will be a perfect fit for this application.
The only other thing I would point out in the defense of the design is that the stress levels in the most recent Von Mises plot are more than acceptable for the material. I am not sure of the load you used, but if it was the resultant load from 300lbs of belt tension, and those were the results, I would feel that the design could be acceptable, and that the few failures that occured could be due to other anomolies. Possibly if the belt tensioner was too tight, it could run out of stroke under WOT and have the crank pulley pulling directly against all of the pulleys. It could be a material defect, and it could be a misaligned/incorrectly installed pulley. The bracket could have even been bent when installed.
I guess the point is that you may be right, and there could be something in the design that needs to change, but I dont think there is enough analysis to show that.
I guess the point is that you may be right, and there could be something in the design that needs to change, but I dont think there is enough analysis to show that.
Users who are viewing this thread
