Mod Motor Cooling System

[ZR5.0]

What were your coolant temps prior to ditching the factory oil cooler?

At a small local road course, not many laps before it would hit 230, stay there for a lap or two then shoot for the moon. On a larger high speed track, maybe 12-15 minutes of lapping before doing the same. Small oil cooler improved it but still required heater on kill to keep in the 220 - 225ish range. Larger cooler with fan assist = beat it as hard as I can and it keeps it's cool. Yes I'd already done the larger rad, Reische stat, adjusted fans, larger reservoir, larger intercooler and reservoir etc with little effect beyond delaying it's overheating by a lap or maybe three. Even tried running it with the hood off. Previously resigned to running an xtra soft 13lb tune to help combat heat, cooling system is so good that I'm running a conversate 17lb road race geared tune.
Previously, even in longer stop and go traffic situations, without warning would spike temps (like cruising Woodward on the day of the Dream Cruise), all that is solved as well.
My precious '04 coupe suffered from the exact same issue.

 

[SlowSVT]

How old is your Reische thermostat? Interesting you bring up thermostat location too. I was just chatting to a buddy yesterday about removing that down pipe and thermostat housing and going to a more traditional setup with a thermostat in the upper intake pipe before the radiator (MMR makes a piece for that too). Then change the bottom setup to just a single radiator hose up to the cooler. Then we started pondering why did Ford do it the way they did in the first place? It seems overly complicated and then must have been some reason we're not seeing.... I wonder what it is?

Yea, I've thought about what impact the placement of the thermostat has in relation to the rad and other then the lower pressure in the rad which is minor I'm thinking it doesn't much matter (I think the GT500places the thermostat before the rad).

 

[SlowSVT]

There is no big mystery about a 170° thermostat. Stant makes some decent stuff - as well as the OEM 180° version - so they work very well.

Here's a bunch on the Ford cooling system and the lower-temp thermostat:

http://www.terminator-cobra.com/cooling.htm#170°_Thermostat

The only thing I cited the Reische thermostat on what it's fast rate of opening. I think this would have the most benefit on a road racer not delaying the "full open" position letting the cooling system get an early jump on cooling rather than waiting for the temps to clime 20 more degrees before full open. Other then that there will be no difference between the Reische and the OEM or an over-the-counter thermostat

 

[ZR5.0]

I've also wondered what the hell for engineers were thinking with the stat in the lower hose. Modfox we built for a local club member, moved stat up top between engine and the rad, even on the hottest of days it won't hit much over 190ish.

 

[racebronco2]

At a small local road course, not many laps before it would hit 230, stay there for a lap or two then shoot for the moon. On a larger high speed track, maybe 12-15 minutes of lapping before doing the same. Small oil cooler improved it but still required heater on kill to keep in the 220 - 225ish range. Larger cooler with fan assist = beat it as hard as I can and it keeps it's cool. Yes I'd already done the larger rad, Reische stat, adjusted fans, larger reservoir, larger intercooler and reservoir etc with little effect beyond delaying it's overheating by a lap or maybe three. Even tried running it with the hood off. Previously resigned to running an xtra soft 13lb tune to help combat heat, cooling system is so good that I'm running a conversate 17lb road race geared tune.
Previously, even in longer stop and go traffic situations, without warning would spike temps (like cruising Woodward on the day of the Dream Cruise), all that is solved as well.
My precious '04 coupe suffered from the exact same issue.

I believe your ambient temps are much lower than they are in many parts of the U.S., your hottest temps are only in the 80's. Many regions are in the 90's and some even in the 100's. I know many Cobra owners whom would be happy to run their cars if only their temps were only in the 230 range. Most of us whom open track our cars have hit limp mode more than a few times before we started doing the cooling mods and most still hit limp mode in the summer if they don't have my hood.

My experience and others local guys found out the oil cooler, bigger radiator, boxed in radiator etc only allowed us to run longer but eventually all our cars would go into limp mode. The only mod that helped not to go in to limn p mode was my hood design which was verified by 4 people whom paid me to mod their hoods. It was such a relief to drive my car since i no longer had to drive according to the temp gauge, sure i looked at it from time to time but not on every straight away.

 

[ZR5.0]

I've seen pics of the hood mod, impressive as are the results.
Last few summers here, we are now seeing high temps coupled with high humidity on a very regular basis, far above what we'd previously been accustomed to. Before cooling mods, yes mine hit tilt n into limp mode very easily, yes even on a soft tune when I had the stock blower. Had made my mind up the oil cooler experiment was going to be my last ditch at making this thing more track friendly and if it failed, car was destined to go down the road n be replaced.
I've noticed some running an external cooler have it combined with the stock cooler / preheated set up, has to be divorced to see better gains. Like I said, smaller stand alone cooler made a big difference, fix for me was the larger version. Thought I was the only one, relief of not having to constantly watch the temp gauge is a considerable load off my mind making it a bunch easier to focus on driving.
Our typical lapping days are 20 minute sessions, all I can tell you, no matter how hard I drive it, temps have remained in check, same on the street under all conditions.

 

[MalcolmV8]

At a small local road course, not many laps before it would hit 230, stay there for a lap or two then shoot for the moon. On a larger high speed track, maybe 12-15 minutes of lapping before doing the same. Small oil cooler improved it but still required heater on kill to keep in the 220 - 225ish range. Larger cooler with fan assist = beat it as hard as I can and it keeps it's cool. Yes I'd already done the larger rad, Reische stat, adjusted fans, larger reservoir, larger intercooler and reservoir etc with little effect beyond delaying it's overheating by a lap or maybe three. Even tried running it with the hood off. Previously resigned to running an xtra soft 13lb tune to help combat heat, cooling system is so good that I'm running a conversate 17lb road race geared tune.
Previously, even in longer stop and go traffic situations, without warning would spike temps (like cruising Woodward on the day of the Dream Cruise), all that is solved as well.
My precious '04 coupe suffered from the exact same issue.

Wow so your car would hit 230F fairly quickly and then higher and go into limp mode. By removing the factory oil cooler your temps now hit around 210F. So this would imply the engine oil was heating the coolant up by some 30+ F. That's huge. If others have noticed the same problems/issues then heck I'm ditching the factory oil cooler this winter.... maybe I should just do it now while my engine is still out.

BTW when you run a remote oil cooler up front do you have some sort of thermostat system in there? I know factory oil coolers usually have a bypass with a thermostat so you can drive in the winter and cooler weather and only when the oil gets above a certain temp it opens and runs the oil through the cooler. Otherwise your car may not be able to bring the oil up to temps in the winter.

 

[SlowSVT]

Not trying to discount the effort you've put into your cooling mods, blew my brains out with cooling mods on my own. The only real success came when I dumped the factory oil cooler / pre warmer for a modd'd 2V filter adapter (started with the police package with provisions for external cooler) + fan assisted external oil cooler. Oil filter remained on the engine. No matter how hard I beat the bitch on the track at 17 lbs, can not make the coolant go much above 210F. If I had it to do again, would start with the cooler n see how well the rest of the stock system worked.

Keep in mind there is a lot more at play here then just looking at a temp gauge. Engine failures usually play out like this:

Your screaming full charge down the straight at redline under full boost, the temp needle reads 210° with the Z06 in tow and life is good! :rockon: Meanwhile, the LH bank is running 40° higher than the RH due to a coolant flow imbalance which is compounded by air bubbles whipped-up by the pump which are getting trapped in the head causing a hot spot in the chamber. The cylinder detonates as a result collapsing the piston just before the motor pulverizes itself from the inside and goes BOOM! :uh oh: Failures are usually the result of minor problems cascading into big ones. I can almost guarantee this exact scenario has taken down more then a few Terminator with the owners scratching their head thinking they leaned an injector or had a bad tune. Heat related failures are often overlooked and systems tend to fail when you need them the most. Once you look at it from that perspective this stuff starts to make sense.

Designing for thermal management of equipment is a big part of my job so that should give you an idea on my perspective.

 

[Twin Terminator]

I know this is an old thread but I was wandering how those Titan head gaskets worked out for you. I'm running a boss block too and I'm getting ready to put some ported heads on and maybe turn the boost up a little more. I've been running the the Cometic MLS gaskets, but thinking about switching to the titans when I do the head swap.

 

[Twin Terminator]

One more question about those Titan head gaskets. What do you think the ideal thickness would be for this type of gasket and aplication? I know it effects compression ratio, but setting that asside, what's best for sealing purposes in your opinion?

 

[speeddemon2000]

Very interesting stuff in this thread.