More info on 07 SVT Cobra

[Fourcam330]

enlighten me please. given the same wheel rate and dampening what else is there?

Gee I don't know, maybe: Overall type of suspension (5 link, 3 link, IRS) , overall geometry, travel, control arms, spindles, sprung weight, etc. etc.

 

[Fourcam330]

my original post was lamenting the apparent info that a properly designed IRS wont be available for IRS. It has yet to be seen whether or not its a fact.

Say what? Also again, several accredited sources have confirmed that there will be no IRS for the '07 Mustang line up. :dw:

 

[Serpentor]

I never said you brought the digressive initial post up, however someone else did. A factual statement was made, and all hell broke loose. Whatever, let me know if you'll be attending any track events in the Midwest this year and I'll give you a chance to change your mind about 3 links riding gun.

the MM/Griggs 3 link is not a ground breaking design and its not the ultimate suspension. Its the best that a solid axle can do.

given the same horsepower, tires and brakes, a properly designed IRS like the RX7 will wipe its ass on the race track AND ride better.

 

[Fourcam330]

the MM/Griggs 3 link is not a ground breaking design and its not the ultimate suspension. Its the best that a solid axle can do.

given the same horsepower, tires and brakes, a properly designed IRS like the RX7 will wipe its ass on the race track AND ride better.

I've already stated that Griggs/MM are mainstream high performance suspension products. Better custom parts/systems exist (Paul's 3 link car eats rice of all types for lunch in the twisties). RX7s are 2800lb cars, put that 2800lb Rx7 (even with mods) on an open track with Paul's 3 link RR car at 2800lbs and it would get its ass handed to it on a platter, period, end of discussion. Better ride with the IRS car, probably, but again if they were both modded to the hilt, neither would be good for your kidneys.
I guess you've totally been ignoring the fact that I've already stated at least three times that a properly designed IRS is better than properly designed solid axle in the twisties (OT, AutoX as I originally said umpteen posts ago) a solid axle would ultimately be the better choice for a drag car. However there do exist exceptions to the rule (Paul's car being one of them) usually the result of lots of hard work and R&D.
Are you one of those people that constantly yaps, and never listens?

 

[Serpentor]

I've already stated that Griggs/MM are mainstream high performance suspension products. Better custom parts/systems exist (Paul's 3 link car eats rice of all types for lunch in the twisties). RX7s are 2800lb cars, put that 2800lb Rx7 (even with mods) on an open track with Paul's 3 link RR car at 2800lbs and it would get its ass handed to it on a platter, period, end of discussion.

show me facts not opinions. Paul's 3 link is not the ultimate suspension for the simple fact that its a 3 link.
it might hold its own against other lesser solid axle and even some non optimized IRS designs but its not a the magical unbeatable ultimate suspension.

Better ride with the IRS car, probably, but again if they were both modded to the hilt, neither would be good for your kidneys.

true, but the IRS will be less harsh.

I guess you've totally been ignoring the fact that I've already stated at least three times that a properly designed IRS is better than properly designed solid axle in the twisties (OT, AutoX as I originally said umpteen posts ago) a solid axle would ultimately be the better choice for a drag car. However there do exist exceptions to the rule (Paul's car being one of them) usually the result of lots of hard work and R&D.

no I have not ignored the fact that you are agreeing with me on the fact that a properly designed IRS beats the solid axle.



my points are for the 100th time:
1. your original reply that the 3link will beat "my band aid" IRS is off topic.
2. the fact (if true) that the 07 cobra will come with a solid axle will be a step back.

Are you one of those people that constantly yaps, and never listens?

are you one of these monkies that constantly types away while never reading the title of the thread?

 

[Serpentor]

Gee I don't know, maybe: Overall type of suspension (5 link, 3 link, IRS) , overall geometry, travel, control arms, spindles, sprung weight, etc. etc.

none of that matters. you've already agreed with me that the best solid axle wont hold a candle to the best IRS.

I'm challenging you to prove me wrong that your statement that a solid axle can have the same ride quality as an equal sping rate/dampening/tired IRS is false.

 

[Fourcam330]

none of that matters. you've already agreed with me that the best solid axle wont hold a candle to the best IRS.

I'm challenging you to prove me wrong that your statement that a solid axle can have the same ride quality as an equal sping rate/dampening/tired IRS is false.

First of all that statement/theory will never actually be scientifically/truly proven unless an automotive manufacter decided they wanted to waste half their suspension budget for a given model on gong both ways with their rear designs. Ain't gonna happen.
Who ever said anything about equal spring rates and dampening levels between the 3 link and IRS cars? It sure as hell wasn't me.

 

[Fourcam330]

show me facts not opinions. Paul's 3 link is not the ultimate suspension for the simple fact that its a 3 link.
it might hold its own against other lesser solid axle and even some non optimized IRS designs but its not a the magical unbeatable ultimate suspension.

Here's your 3 link fact: As much as I hate Nascar, you have to admit, although the technology may be older, it can still produce amazing results.

no I have not ignored the fact that you are agreeing with me on the fact that a properly designed IRS beats the solid axle.
my points are for the 100th time:
1. your original reply that the 3link will beat "my band aid" IRS is off topic.
2. the fact (if true) that the 07 cobra will come with a solid axle will be a step back.

My reply to your statement wasn't OT, we are afterall discussing present and next gen. Cobra rear suspensions in this thread--like it or not, the thread digressed to that point, sorry I told you something you didn't want to hear :??:
Next, what grounds are you basing your second claim on? We have no idea how good of an IRS Ford would/could have given us on the '05; because of budget constraints it could have very easily been as poorly/quickly/cheaply designed as the 99-04 version. Talk about a piss poor blanket statement, that's like saying that all Chevy's are slow because they have pushrod motors. :kaboom:

are you one of these monkies that constantly types away while never reading the title of the thread?

I mind as well be reading your responses op:

 

[Serpentor]

Here's your 3 link fact: As much as I hate Nascar, you have to admit, although the technology may be older, it can still produce amazing results.

changing the topic again because you you know you're wrong. :lol1:
prove to me a solid axle, any solid axle whether its:3-link/4link/5link/phb/watts link/J-link/hotchkiss/DeDion/pixie-magic-superconducting-time-traveling-link will ride as well as a properly designed IRS.
get it though your thick head that when one wheel hits a bump on a solid axle, the other one will have to move.

My reply to your statement wasn't OT, we are afterall discussing present and next gen. Cobra rear suspensions in this thread--like it or not, the thread digressed to that point, sorry I told you something you didn't want to hear :??:

go back and read your posts. there were 7posts before mine, none of which talked about the 99-04 IRS you are the one that started the OT argument.
you were directing your comment at me, so I responded. Serpentnoir disagreed with you and you ripped into him too.

Next, what grounds are you basing your second claim on? We have no idea how good of an IRS Ford would/could have given us on the '05; because of budget constraints it could have very easily been as poorly/quickly/cheaply designed as the 99-04 version. Talk about a piss poor blanket statement, that's like saying that all Chevy's are slow because they have pushrod motors. :kaboom:

guess what, all the previous generation SVTcars were done under John Colletti. I put all the shortcomings of the previous cars under his reponsiblity.
Hau Thai-Tang did a pretty damn good job with the '05, there is no reason to believe he will do a half-ass job if he puts his effort into leading the development of a proper IRS.

Designing an IRS isnt rocket science, ford's been racing cars with IRS in the 60s. Just because the '99-04 IRS had short comings (that can be overcome) doesnt mean ford cant design an IRS. If SVT cant design a simple SLA IRS, they shouldnt be in the car business, let alone high performance specialty cars.

 

[SGL]

By the way I don't work for Ford.

Seems like the pro/cons have been fully discussed today. Bottom line I refuse to buy a vehicle that has a solid axle (aside from a truck). If Ford did in fact put a solid axle under the next Cobra I will shop somewhere else (I'm sure their sales will survive without me). Next subject please...

 

[The Pun]

You guys are giving me a head ache.

We will know in a few weeks and it will be cool.

 

[putawaywet]

I certainly hope so!

And then a whole new slew of arguments can start anew.......

"That front ends is fugly!"
"Aint feeling the taillights!"
"Why no hood scoop?"
"What's with the funky rear bumper"
"Rims look like they came off a Focus"

 

[03reptile]

I really enjoy having that IRS as it doesn't chatter across irregularites in a corner like the many othe past Mustangs I've owned. My bet is that Ford will retain the IRS and maybe make the solid axle an option. I will by the 07, but would be disapointed, big time, if they Ax the IRS. I agree that its a step backward and that hasn't been SVT's reputation over the years, so hopefully it will be retained.

 

[WraithCobra]

I thought the new chassis was designed for an IRS and a solid axle was used for the V6 and GT to keep the costs down and at a certain price point. This would mean that engineering for an IRS has already been looked into for this chassis. If Ford's not going to put the $ into an IRS for an SVT Mustang, they'll use what's already under the GT with different springs and shocks (a "Band-Aid" solid set up). I'd rather have a "Band-Aid" IRS that rides and handles better than a stock GT any day. If Ford wants my performance dollar, the next SVT Mustang better have an IRS or the best damn solid set up on any street car. If it's some "Band-Aid" solid set up from the regular GT my performance dollar will go to Roush who I'll trust to do it right.

 

[03reptile]

I agree. I think that is what Ford would do should the bean counters designate a live axle. It would be a band-aid approach. My feeling is SVT has always stayed on the cutting edge with the Cobra, given what they had to work with, and I think they will continue that course. Theres only so much you can do with a live axle. For daily driving on many varied surfaces, the IRS is much more desirable. I sure hope they retain the IRS and give those who are interested in straight-line performance only, an option to order one with the live axle.

 

[Johnny Random]

OEM IRS to Griggs or MM built solids is dumb comparison.

 

[SGL]

OEM IRS to Griggs or MM built solids is dumb comparison.

Actually there is a worse comparison: Griggs suspension performance on the track vs OEM IRS performance on the street. The above argument centered mainly around that. As they say: garbage in, garbage out. :shrug:

I have to admit that before I upgraded the stock IRS with subframe bushings and 03 bilstein shocks, the behavior of that IRS was less than spectacular.

 

[ChicagoMike]

A big selling point for my 2003 Cobra that made me buy it was that it had IRS. If it had a solid axle, I would have bought a different non-Ford car.

Something for Ford to think about. :read:

 

[FriscoCobra]

I really enjoy having that IRS as it doesn't chatter across irregularites in a corner like the many othe past Mustangs I've owned. My bet is that Ford will retain the IRS and maybe make the solid axle an option. I will by the 07, but would be disapointed, big time, if they Ax the IRS. I agree that its a step backward and that hasn't been SVT's reputation over the years, so hopefully it will be retained.

I've read several articles stating that the next cobra will not have irs in order to keep cost down. I do hear that it will be a 500hp beast for 40k and thats probably why they have to ditch the irs. Personally I'm happy with my 04 and I'm sure that it will become a classic down the line so I probably won't be getting an 07. Besides to tell you the truth I like the body style of my car better than the newer ones but I could just be biased.