Need expert advice

[nooner]

I need to replace my engine. My goal is 600-650 rwhp. My first plan was to have a Boss 5.0 built and port my Eaton. It was pointed out that the Eaton would be the limiting factor so I decided to go Whipple, but the added cost for the Whipple made me rethink my original idea. My mechanic found a set of ported, polished, cammed heads from another Cobra for $3,000 (originally had $5,000 work done on them), so adding them to a new Aluminator short block for $3,550 from Tousley will drastically reduce cost so I can afford the Whipple. The heads will be cleaned up with new valves and guides put in. So this is the plan...

New Aluminator short block
used ported, polished, cammed heads (new valves & guides)
Whipple 2.3
Billetflow idlers and upper pulley
Accufab single blade throttle body
JLT billet 110mm MAF w/Mafia
JLT carbon fiber Ram Air intake kit & c/f heat shield
Lethal & Fore's new Budget Return Style Fuel System
60lb injectors
Moroso 7 qt Aluminum Deep Sump Oil Pan
Bassani mid length headers (ground clearance is an issue)
Bassani o/r x-pipe
SpinTech full length s/f connectors
plus parts from my old engine

Other major mods I already have...
Mcleod RST 26 spline clutch
FTBR delrin IRS bushings w/aluminum diff bushing
LPW Aluminum IRS Diff Cover
SpinTech mufflers into Roush side exhaust
Roush s/f connectors (welding in w/SpinTech s/f connectors)

I still need talk with my mechanic to finalize things but I would like to know what you experts think. A local service shop forgot to put oil in my old engine so that's why I'm replacing it. I pretty much don't know what I'm doing. Am I forgetting something? Am I adding something I don't need? What size upper pulley do you think I would need? Are 60lb injectors big enough? Thanks for any advice you can give me.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Do you have E85 in your area?

When purchasing fuel components, building in E85 capability should always at least be considered.

The flexibility and safety it brings for high boost applications is significant. You can always pulley back down and flip the tune for 93.

 

[nooner]

Do you have E85 in your area?

When purchasing fuel components, building in E85 capability should always at least be considered.

The flexibility and safety it brings for high boost applications is significant. You can always pulley back down and flip the tune for 93.

Yes, E85 is available nearby. "E-Series E85 coating" is only a $50 option on that Return Style Fuel System, so is that (and probably 80lb injectors) all I would need to go E85 (plus a suitable tune)?

 

[cobracide]

Yes, E85 is available nearby. "E-Series E85 coating" is only a $50 option on that Return Style Fuel System, so is that (and probably 80lb injectors) all I would need to go E85 (plus a suitable tune)?

60lb injectors - make these 80#, yep.

 

[cbr repsol]

let me get this straight. You took your car for a oil change and they forgot to put the oil in??? Uuuhhmmm.. why are they not replacing your motor??:shrug:

 

[nooner]

let me get this straight. You took your car for a oil change and they forgot to put the oil in??? Uuuhhmmm.. why are they not replacing your motor??:shrug:

Yeah, and that was the day I got it back after it was down for 3 months for some upgrades and body work. Tire Kingdom cut me an $8600 check to replace it (after a 4 1/2 month battle) so I'm putting that towards a better engine. My old engine was very strong at 432 rwhp with nothing but a custom tune, stock pullies, K&N intake, and BBK o/r x-pipe. From what I've read, I likely wouldn't be able to match that with a just a reman. At 76k miles, I wasn't ready to replace the engine, but this new one (w/polished Whipple) should make a good engine to show. :coolman:

 

[cbr repsol]

^^nice... it sounds you may have bonused a bit.

 

[EvilBlack]

Well, that is probably tough to go through but the planned motor and upgrades sound like it will be a fun replacement. $8,600 is a LOT of dough for a car as old as these are. Have fun with the build.

 

[89slowgt331]

I need to replace my engine. My goal is 600-650 rwhp. My first plan was to have a Boss 5.0 built and port my Eaton. It was pointed out that the Eaton would be the limiting factor so I decided to go Whipple, but the added cost for the Whipple made me rethink my original idea. My mechanic found a set of ported, polished, cammed heads from another Cobra for $3,000 (originally had $5,000 work done on them), so adding them to a new Aluminator short block for $3,550 from Tousley will drastically reduce cost so I can afford the Whipple. The heads will be cleaned up with new valves and guides put in. So this is the plan...

New Aluminator short block
used ported, polished, cammed heads (new valves & guides)
Whipple 2.3
Billetflow idlers and upper pulley
Accufab single blade throttle body
JLT billet 110mm MAF w/Mafia
JLT carbon fiber Ram Air intake kit & c/f heat shield
Lethal & Fore's new Budget Return Style Fuel System
60lb injectors
Moroso 7 qt Aluminum Deep Sump Oil Pan
Bassani mid length headers (ground clearance is an issue)
Bassani o/r x-pipe
SpinTech full length s/f connectors
plus parts from my old engine

Other major mods I already have...
Mcleod RST 26 spline clutch
FTBR delrin IRS bushings w/aluminum diff bushing
LPW Aluminum IRS Diff Cover
SpinTech mufflers into Roush side exhaust
Roush s/f connectors (welding in w/SpinTech s/f connectors)

I still need talk with my mechanic to finalize things but I would like to know what you experts think. A local service shop forgot to put oil in my old engine so that's why I'm replacing it. I pretty much don't know what I'm doing. Am I forgetting something? Am I adding something I don't need? What size upper pulley do you think I would need? Are 60lb injectors big enough? Thanks for any advice you can give me.

IMHO, I would run a stock oil pan and find some new or low milage stock 9 thread revised heads or reuse your after a trip to the machine shop, you will still hit 600 on 93 pump gas or more with better gas or E85.

 

[nooner]

^^nice... it sounds you may have bonused a bit.

That's debatable but I'm determined to make a positive out of this negative.

Well, that is probably tough to go through but the planned motor and upgrades sound like it will be a fun replacement. $8,600 is a LOT of dough for a car as old as these are. Have fun with the build.

Yes, it was tough. At least now I'll have a reason to show my car with the hood open. :rockon:

IMHO, I would run a stock oil pan and find some new or low milage stock 9 thread revised heads or reuse your after a trip to the machine shop, you will still hit 600 on 93 pump gas or more with better gas or E85.

Why would you do that? These used heads already have the work done on them that I wanted. And why wouldn't you upgrade to a 7 qt oil pan? My mechanic even has a new Melling oil pump that someone backed out on that I'm considering if I get a good deal on it. With an aluminum block, I want to ensure my oiling system is as robust as possible, don't I? Do you feel it is not worth the money? :shrug:

For reliability, I am trying to make an easy 600 rather than pushing things to the limit to hit my goal. For that reason, I'm even considering going with a 2.9 Whipple. Is that overkill?

Thanks for the input guys! This is why I'm asking. I'm trying to learn and apply what I've read. :thumbsup:

 

[Quick Strike]

The Canton pan hits on the crossmember for the convertible. There was some cutting and welding involved to make it work. I like the crossmember as it saves my headers and pan from abuse. So, it was worth it to save the crossmember to me.

 

[nooner]

The Canton pan hits on the crossmember for the convertible. There was some cutting and welding involved to make it work. I like the crossmember as it saves my headers from abuse. So, it was worth it to save the crossmember to me.

Good info! That convertible only crossmember is why I decided not to do a MM K-member. So are you saying long tube headers wouldn't come any lower than that crossmember? If that's true then l/t headers wouldn't give me any more of a ground clearance issue than I have now.

 

[Quick Strike]

Good info! That convertible only crossmember is why I decided not to do a MM K-member. So are you saying long tube headers wouldn't come any lower than that crossmember? If that's true then l/t headers wouldn't give me any more of a ground clearance issue than I have now.

There are some good pictures of my crossmember and header clearence in this thread, and some good pictures of how I modified the crossmember here. The headers fit with no modifications to the k-member.

 

[nooner]

There are some good pictures of my crossmember and header clearence in this thread, and some good pictures of how I modified the crossmember here. The headers fit with no modifications to the k-member.

Talked with my mechanic today. He agreed there shouldn't be ground clearance issues so I'm going with Kooks long tubes.

It looks like you had to shave down that vert only crossmember to provide clearance for the Canton oil pan, right? According to the dimensions listed on Lethal's website, Canton oil pans have a 6-1/4" Deep, 12-3/4" wide, by 9-1/4" long sump while the Moroso pan has a 4" deep 15-1/2 wide, 11" long sump. Would you say the shallower sump of the Moroso pan should provide the needed clearance without modifying the crossmember?

Also, you said in that thread you "will need an aftermarket steering shaft". Why is that?

 

[Quick Strike]

It looks like you had to shave down that vert only crossmember to provide clearance for the Canton oil pan, right? According to the dimensions listed on Lethal's website, Canton oil pans have a 6-1/4" Deep, 12-3/4" wide, by 9-1/4" long sump while the Moroso pan has a 4" deep 15-1/2 wide, 11" long sump. Would you say the shallower sump of the Moroso pan should provide the needed clearance without modifying the crossmember?

Also, you said in that thread you "will need an aftermarket steering shaft". Why is that?

You have to have enough clearence between the pan and the crossmember to install the transmission tilted down some. I needed another 1/2" of clearence. Otherwise, you can not install the transmission or tighten the bell housing bolts. I am not sure how the Moroso pan is 2" shorter if it uses the stock pick-up tube, but you also have to be careful of the header to pan clearence on the sides. Everything is fighting for space at the back of the K-member. My heareds are very close to the pan at some points.

I used the Borgeson steering shaft that MM sells. The end of the stock shaft will not fit between the headers once installed. Flaming river also makes a shaft that works with headers. I liked the Borgeson since it did not have set screws, but had to drill out one of the hardened pin to make it fit anyway. The end was still not small enough to fit through the headers. I had to remove the end, install the shaft, and then install the end. I would try the Flaming River given another chance. It is made to come apart, but takes a little more work to "set" in place.

 

[mach1033]

there is nothing wrong with the stock factory replacement motor. I have it in my car. I also have the MM K member along with there A arms. I also had to have the oil filter relocated. My LT's fit just fine and with a 1.5 inch drop I have zero ground clearance issues. I was running a 2.3 whipple with a 3.0 pulley and 4 lb lower for just under two years without issue. I now have the 2.9 whipple with the 3.5 upper and 4lb lower. It is a great motor for your power goals.

 

[89slowgt331]

I was just trying to save you some money the more custom parts you throw at it the more headaches you run into, It sounds like you are dead set on many aftermarket parts. I did that several times with foxbody's and got my cobra because it is built right out of the box. 108K on it without removing a cam cover and 602 RWHP with a 2.3 whipple at 17psi, If you want all the aftermarket cam's, valvetrain, ported heads, oil pan, oil pump, then build what makes you happy, I think the factory parts are durable enough for a 600-700 rwhp car with a good tune, no leaks and they last. You can achieve your goal for 1/2 the cost and the parts are proven on alot of our car's. The choice is your's to make and good luck on the build whatever direction you take.

 

[nooner]

You have to have enough clearence between the pan and the crossmember to install the transmission tilted down some. I needed another 1/2" of clearence. Otherwise, you can not install the transmission or tighten the bell housing bolts. I am not sure how the Moroso pan is 2" shorter if it uses the stock pick-up tube, but you also have to be careful of the header to pan clearence on the sides. Everything is fighting for space at the back of the K-member. My heareds are very close to the pan at some points.

I used the Borgeson steering shaft that MM sells. The end of the stock shaft will not fit between the headers once installed. Flaming river also makes a shaft that works with headers. I liked the Borgeson since it did not have set screws, but had to drill out one of the hardened pin to make it fit anyway. The end was still not small enough to fit through the headers. I had to remove the end, install the shaft, and then install the end. I would try the Flaming River given another chance. It is made to come apart, but takes a little more work to "set" in place.

Good info! Hopefully this is due to you using Kooks 1 7/8" stepped headers so I guess I'll wait until we cross this bridge, but I'll definitely keep it in mind and let my mechanic know. The shop I am using specializes in Mustangs and has done many Terminators and says they have installed all the major brands of headers, but not the stepped ones. They prefer Kooks and ARH and since I saw your pics of how well Kooks fit, I chose Kooks.

We still need to work out oil pan issue. My mechanic did say he likes the Canton pan better than Moroso. You raise a good question about the stock pick-up tube that I can't answer. Guess I should get an answer first before going with that pan. Thanks!

To everyone else responding: Thanks for your input. I'm currently working so will respond to each post separately as I get time.

 

[prostkr]

What shop? And Id personally stay with the stock pan. The aftermarket pans all suck and are over kill. Unless road racing is your passion.

The rest of the list looks solid. I would also read up and quiz your mechanic on his knowledge of degreeing in the cams. There are only a cpl guys in Jax I would trust with a cam install.

 

[nooner]

there is nothing wrong with the stock factory replacement motor. I have it in my car. I also have the MM K member along with there A arms. I also had to have the oil filter relocated. My LT's fit just fine and with a 1.5 inch drop I have zero ground clearance issues. I was running a 2.3 whipple with a 3.0 pulley and 4 lb lower for just under two years without issue. I now have the 2.9 whipple with the 3.5 upper and 4lb lower. It is a great motor for your power goals.

Oh, absolutely the stock factory engine is a great replacement. Didn't mean to say it wasn't. But its a known fact that "early" Terminators were pushing 410-430 HP and mine was built on the 3rd day of production so is definetly an "early" one. Everything I have read about how much power these motors have with stock boost led me to believe mine was a very strong motor so I was just afraid that if I went with a reman engine I would be disappointed with the results. Besides, this is my dream car. The way I currently feel about it, I will never get rid of it so obviously some day I would have to replace the engine. That day just came a whole lot sooner than I expected, and I was given an $8600 check towards that engine replacement. Seemed to me like a good time to put that "dream" engine in.

But the realities of building the dream engine are quite a bit more expensive than I expected. At first I was going to build an aluminum Boss 5.0 motor that had the potential for really big power. I could have built the long block and reused my old parts until I could afford the other parts to realize that power potential, but I would have been stuck with mid 500's at best until then. After sticking that much into an engine, I didn't want to get it back on the road with this awesome engine pushing no more than a stock block. So I had to drop back to a more modest base that would allow me to afford the extra goodies. Yeah, I could have dropped back a bit more and spent a bit less and got the same power, but my thought is to overbuild a bit and settle for less power to get better reliablility than I otherwise would have had.

And the reason I said I didn't go with an after market k-member (for now) is the vert only cross member that Quick Strike mentioned would have to go because it bolts to the k-member. Maybe its not needed with an a/m k-member, but I haven't researched that yet. I didn't mean there was anything wrong with the MM k-member. It will probably be the one I choose if I do decide to go without that vert only cross member.

Good to hear you don't have any clearance issues with long tubes either. It gives me hope. Thanks for your input! :beer: