New E92 M3 possibly 450hp

[SteveEvo8]

I think both are amazing cars, i am a huge M3 fan though. However still comparing these cars is absurd. The m3 will be better in areas (exterior, interior, handling, quality) compared to the gt500, yet the gt500 should have speed, and possibly even braking better than it. 2 different cars, made for 2 different people.

Both cars get my respect, but both on 2 different levels.

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

Absolutely. you can get a GTO with 400 HP now. It is a much different market than it was in 01 when the E46 came out. I would expect it to be at least 425 hp, even to keep ahead of the modded 335 coupe. The car is going to be near $60K. That is going to put it squarely in the price range of many cars, that will be faster, and alot of cheaper alternatives (such as the Shelby) that will be faster.


M3 owners that are buying the car for the driving experience ARE potential STI and EVO buyers. If they are just buying the car for the status (as most do here in So Cal, then no, they would not be in that market.

Cars with a $30k difference in price certainly aren't alternatives, especially to a car company. The M3 is a luxury sports coupe and is a great all around performer. They don't have to worry about protential buyers choosing a perofrmance only, 4dr AWD for 30k less. They are not marketing the M3 to real i those people and upsell them 30k. The also don't care about how it comapres to one of its own modded cars. Its already a 100hp difference along with taking the rest of the car to a new peformance level. Somone with 65-70k to spend on a perofrmace BMW is going to get the M3. To the same thing, a guy dropping 100k for one won't do it if the performance of the "cheap M" is too close to the m6.
I think you are confusing what you want to see with what is realistic.

 

[Captain Beyond]

why are there so many M3 threads in the GT500 section?

:shrug:

Why are there so many Z06 threads on here as well? :bored:

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Cars with a $30k difference in price certainly aren't alternatives, especially to a car company. The M3 is a luxury sports coupe and is a great all around performer. They don't have to worry about protential buyers choosing a perofrmance only, 4dr AWD for 30k less. They are not marketing the M3 to real i those people and upsell them 30k. The also don't care about how it comapres to one of its own modded cars. Its already a 100hp difference along with taking the rest of the car to a new peformance level. Somone with 65-70k to spend on a perofrmace BMW is going to get the M3. To the same thing, a guy dropping 100k for one won't do it if the performance of the "cheap M" is too close to the m6.
I think you are confusing what you want to see with what is realistic.

I agree with your point fundamentally, but I guarentee you they are looking at what the market is offering. Why do you think the New M5 has 500 HP. It is because the E55 got the supercharged engine a few years ago. Why does the new 335 have 300 HP? Because the new Lexus IS 350 is blowing the current car away. I'm sure the M3 will have at least 400 HP. 450 would make it a really great car. If it has 400 it might just be the slowest sports car $60K could buy. I wont be buying one, so I don't mind either way.

You have to remember, 90% are buying the M3 just to buy it. They will never really "use" it. I am speaking about people who want a phenomenal driving experience. Such people put the STI, Evo, Elise, Atom, M3, GT500, Z06, and the like all on the same list. They want a kick ass car that fits their personal taste or driving style.

I was talking to an aquaintence yesterday who is selling his Ferrari F360 (it was his DD) and Aston Martin Vanquish and plans to get an STI (and add a few mods to it) because it is more fun to drive. He is a perfect example. He has owned a bunch of exotics, and said he had more fun in a Subaru than about anything else he has owned.

Go figure.

 

[Dave07997S]

bmw has never been about all out performance
It is a status symbol for 99% of its buyers, but its funny because anyone with real money buys a Merc

Chuck...... WTF are you talking about!!! Other than C350 and CLK350 MB cars which ones come with manual transmissions?? All of BMW M cars have manual (yes even SMG is a manual and 6 spd manual non SMG cars are available) as even the highly AMG cars aren't availalbe with a manual. Not to mention BMW likes to make their hp normally aspirated. Sure there are people who buy luxury brands just because their luxury brands, BMWincluded. However to say that 99% of BMW buyers buy BMW's just because their bimmers, well you just dropped several notches on the credibility scale...Believe me if Ford and other domestic automakers were in the business of making cars instead of SUV's they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in now.

Dave

 

[Dave07997S]

and possibly even braking better than it. 2 different cars, made for 2 different people.

Both cars get my respect, but both on 2 different levels.

The ZCP E46 M3 comes with the CSL 13.6" front and 12.9" rear with 600lbs less weight and a 50/50 weight distribution..who is going to brake better??
;-)

Dave

 

[Dave07997S]

This will be my last post on this thread as I am the one who started it and didn't mean to use 3 pgs. of bandwith.

The Shelby GT500 is a huge jump for Ford in the Sports Coupe market in my book. The build quality of the new Mustang (other than the HVAC controls which feel like my 2yr. olds FisherPrice toys) is light years ahead of what the SN95 and Fox-4 platform was. Not to mention the updated stiff platform with proper geometry was a major step forward for Ford. In fact it has a few of us former Cobra owners who now drive BMW M3's or equivalent to maybe come back to Ford.

Alot of the perspective of buying a more "premium" auto brand sometimes has nothing to do with how much money you make but how old you are. You know when I was 25yrs. old I didn't give a damn about build quality, build materials, and overall driving dynamics. No I didn't, I only cared about one thing...and that was horsepower. Now that I am 42 (37 when I bought my first non Ford..my 01 M3) I do care about those things, and since at my age I have more money then when I was 25 I didn't mind paying a premium to get it. I am not the only one in the bracket, hence the demise and ever shrinking market share that Ford and other domestic automakers are experiencing. Why is more expensive Toyota, BMW, Lexus, Nissan and such cars selling so well in the US with less hp and straight line performance than a lot of their US counterparts??

Ford is waking up..it started with the Mustang, and now with the Fusion and the Edge. I just hope its not to late though. Ford can't penny pinch as they are in the fight of their life right now.

If I can get a GT500 I would get one at MSRP. At South Bay BMW here in Ca. I am #3 on the listat MSRP for a new E92 M3..just in case I can't. There is a certain dynamic going on with this car that I didn't quite see with the terminator. When the 03 Cobras came out I was able to get one at MSRP here in Los Angeles...non even remotely conceivable with the GT500.

Ciao...

Dave

 

[CantDrv55]

I ran my '04 M3 in the 1/4 before I sold it. TOtally stock it ran 13.1 @ 107. Not too shabby for a wimpy I-6. The E92 should be as light if not a little lighter, but more power. Do the math. I've seen a GT500 run no better than 13.3 at thsi same track in better conditions. That said, don't be so quick to discount the bimmer. They are great cars, and you might be suprised by the new M3.

 

[SteveEvo8]

The ZCP E46 M3 comes with the CSL 13.6" front and 12.9" rear with 600lbs less weight and a 50/50 weight distribution..who is going to brake better??
;-)

Dave

Dave,

I agree, but since the CSL was not released here some may say that's a "unfair comparison"

Steve

 

[bluestreak89]

:shrug:

Why are there so many Z06 threads on here as well? :bored:

At least the Z06 threads have something to do with the shelby because folks talk about what mods it will take to beat one, or comparisons of some sort. This car isnt out for a year and there is a thread on the cost to order one and it's HP.

 

[primetime]

bmw has never been about all out performance
It is a status symbol for 99% of its buyers, but its funny because anyone with real money buys a Merc

LOL! Dumbest post I have read in quite a while. Get a clue dude. later Ron

 

[Dave07997S]

Dave,

I agree, but since the CSL was not released here some may say that's a "unfair comparison"

Steve

The ZCP package M3 is released here with those brakes...

Dave

 

[SteveEvo8]

The ZCP package M3 is released here with those brakes...

Dave

Yes, but i do not believe it has the weight reduction like the CSL has, correct me if i'm wrong though.


Steve

 

[Dave07997S]

Yes, but i do not believe it has the weight reduction like the CSL has, correct me if i'm wrong though.


Steve

No it doesn't, but the weight differences I was talking about is with a US M3. The CSL is some 300lbs lighter than a standard M3, which would be almost 800lbs lighter than the Shelby

Dave

 

[SteveEvo8]

The CSL is gross!!! Sadly that was not sold in the USA. I assume for crash test reasons and etc, and not meeting the "standard"?

No doubt the M3 brakes better, i think the m3 will get better brake after brake after brake results. The GT500 for the weight brakes very well.

God i wish i could afford an M3 hahah

Steve

 

[Dave07997S]

The CSL is gross!!! Sadly that was not sold in the USA. I assume for crash test reasons and etc, and not meeting the "standard"?

No doubt the M3 brakes better, i think the m3 will get better brake after brake after brake results. The GT500 for the weight brakes very well.

God i wish i could afford an M3 hahah

Steve

You nailed it, won't pass crash test regs...It also cost a arm and a leg.

Dave

 

[SteveEvo8]

You nailed it, won't pass crash test regs...It also cost a arm and a leg.

Dave

I am sure those who are serious about going to the track would buy the CSL. Its truly an amazing car.

Hey Dave, have there been problems with the new M5's? I have seen a couple used ones around with under 5k miles.

Steve

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

after seeing bruces vids(and seeing his posts about the GT500), i think the braking could be close. hell, MT tested one and got a 60-0 of 108ft. but that is an "oh so credible" mag, and who knows what surface(s) they may have tested on.

 

[chuckstang]

LOL! Dumbest post I have read in quite a while. Get a clue dude. later Ron

No, majority do not buy BMW for it's performance, not even the M series, mainly because you can buy a much faster car for less money, if performance is what you are after. The M3 M5 and such are all great cars but from a performance stand point, they just are not worth the $$$ IMO.
For a DD, it is great though because they are comfortable, look pretty nice, and perform well all around.
Even if the BMW M3 stickered at 45k, I still think most would take a vette or gt500 over it.

Remember this is a Ford site so I am naturally biassed.

 

[SteveEvo8]

Yes but at 45k, if you're looking to build a performance car... I don't think most would be buying those.

The M3/M5, like you said are not pure performance cars. At least the M3's that are released in the US. However BMW has found a very good middle ground between luxury, and performance. Personally i would take an m3 over a gt500 or vette for more than the obvious reasons.

But if you're talking pure performance, all the cars we are talking about are out of the discussion.


Steve