Northwood's Time: Who's In???

[ac427cobra]

Great Full Lap of A-B video there!! :thumbsup:

I love your videos with narration, they truly are quite funny! Mike

Mike, I'm glad a Corvette guy can also find a little humor in them too!

BTW...why were you running in the beginners group? :lol:
Mike

You may find this hard to believe but sadly enough, this is the highest level you can reach in NASA (HPDE4) until you get into the Race Group. That pretty much sealed the deal for my future thoughs of possibly toying with the idea of racing with NASA.

They certainly take great care of their racers (which they should) and they seem to have a good program for beginners as well. It's just that they are lacking in other areas.

 

[Flying Fred]

Fred,

Are you still coming down to ABCC this weekend? I have to coach my son's football team but will try to come Sat afternoon to show you, Bruce and whoever a few lines. I spoke to Mark Hasenberg and will contribute to NWShelby if my car is ready to run. The car is being fitted with a sequential transmission. I'll be there Friday and Sunday as well if it's ready!

Mike

Sorry to say I won't be there Mike. I was instructing for Badgers at RA and cracked a cylinder, so I am out indefinitely. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to hook up with you next year. Have a great weekend at AB.
:beer:

 

[Clutchdumper]

Sorry to say I won't be there Mike. I was instructing for Badgers at RA and cracked a cylinder, so I am out indefinitely. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to hook up with you next year. Have a great weekend at AB.
:beer:

Fred,

You don't have to wait for another upcoming event. Bruce and yourself are welcome out as my guests any time!


Mike

 

[Flying Fred]

Wow, VERY generous and much appreciated. I might take you up on that, but I would really like to have my car running first so I could follow you around.... at least for a few seconds! Unfortunately that's not going to happen before the season ends.

 

[Clutchdumper]

Wow, VERY generous and much appreciated. I might take you up on that, but I would really like to have my car running first so I could follow you around.... at least for a few seconds! Unfortunately that's not going to happen before the season ends.

No expirations! Get your car back to health and we'll have some fun!

 

[mltohland]

Ha ha Mike! :-D I love that video. Did you film that? For once it was a Mustang holding up a Corvette! ;-) But then once I saw his ass end slide out and went off track, it was a downer! :cryying:

I'm sure the rest of the guys on the board have seen this one but in case you missed it here is a little action I ran into at the NASA event this past August at Road America:


Mustang/Z06 roll reversal

Bruce Almighty, A Fab-5-Ford, :burnout:

That white corvette was built by an elderly gentleman who claimed something like 500rwhp, (nice guy). I was blown away when he told me how much power he had. He had an accident in turn 6 at that event that shortened his car by more than a foot and took him out for the event. It sure seems like that was the footage of the incident.

You should be ashamed of yourself for pushing around nice white old men. One day, you too will be a nice white old man. :nono:

 

[ac427cobra]

Bruce Almighty, A Fab-5-Ford, :burnout:

That white corvette was built by an elderly gentleman who claimed something like 500rwhp, (nice guy). I was blown away when he told me how much power he had. He had an accident in turn 6 at that event that shortened his car by more than a foot and took him out for the event. It sure seems like that was the footage of the incident.

You should be ashamed of yourself for pushing around nice white old men. One day, you too will be a nice white old man. :nono:

Dave:

I do not like to see guys pile up their cars at all. Ever. It's expensive, it's dangerous and it's dangerous for others on the track as well. It drives up insurance costs and should concern everyone going to these track events. BUT, when I see someone driving over their head and CONTINUING on and on then I don't have a lot of sympathy for them when they have a mishap.

Luckily for me this guy was NOT one of the guys I was forced to ride his ass for two laps before he let me by. I really would have felt bad. As you know all different types of people attend these events in all different types of cars. They have all different driving skill levels as well.

Someday I will be older. There is No Doubt! Hell, I'm old now! :whine: I have no problem pointing faster cars by. Never have I held up a car for more than two or three turns. If someone is faster, I have no problem pointing them by. It's not really a big deal. There will always be someone faster at a track event.

FWIW

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[Flying Fred]

I think (hope) Dave was mostly kidding. Nevertheless the topic of drivers not knowing their limits (aka: "He was doing great until he ran out of talent") is a serious matter and I concur with Bruce's well stated comments. Even racing has it's version of guys constantly driving over their heads. Some see no problem with that because racing is competitive so driving 10/10ths all the time is fine (expected?). It seems that these guys are the ones who break, go off track or are involved in incidents more often. Ted and I have talked about this a lot and it IS an unfortunate danger to all the others on the track. Furthermore the "risk/rewards" ratio just doesn't justify it (IMHO) because there is no real reward like money or fame. We are NOT professionals, so why pretend to be? I have no problem when a car gets by because as Bruce is right.... there will always be someone faster!

 

[mltohland]

Famous Fred in Flying Red,

I track with you guys because you are talented and I have confidence in your abilities, Bruce knows that.

It is spooky watching that guy overdrive his car, but he did walk away unharmed. When I entered this sport, my (cousin-instructor) taught me to back off (cool down) for a couple of corners every time I overdrove a corner. PERIOD! I believe that every driver on a track is responsible for thier own actions. Maybe this is a good lesson for all to review.

 

[Cobra-R]

Excellent video, how can you not enjoy seeing a yellow vette kicking ass on the track. (that was for you, Bruce)

Slightly off subject, but I have noticed a trend happening in racing. There are getting to be more and more people who come out and try open tracking, see the racing, (at NASA type events) and decide to go race. They are the ones I see as the most dangerous, just like the new open tracker who buys a over capable car, too soon.

 

[ac427cobra]

Slightly off subject, but I have noticed a trend happening in racing. There are getting to be more and more people who come out and try open tracking, see the racing, (at NASA type events) and decide to go race. They are the ones I see as the most dangerous, just like the new open tracker who buys a over capable car, too soon.

Yes Brian, I wholeheartedly agree. Everyone should be concerned about that.

Recently I was reading my October Grass Roots Motorsports magazine and was reading the "Meet a Member" feature and it was about David Donovan. He's from the NASA Texas region. The second question he fielded is one I had great concern for:

GRM: How long before you were racing wheel to wheel?

DD: The car was AI legal, but since I had never driven on track I went through the NASA HPDE race craft school. I did two weekends of race craft school, then I started the races from the back of the pack, getting a feel for how everything flows..............................

(I took the liberty of putting the pertinent information in bold)

Some food for thought if nothing else. :read:

 

[Cobra-R]

Yes Brian, I wholeheartedly agree. Everyone should be concerned about that.

Recently I was reading my October Grass Roots Motorsports magazine and was reading the "Meet a Member" feature and it was about David Donovan. He's from the NASA Texas region. The second question he fielded is one I had great concern for:

GRM: How long before you were racing wheel to wheel?

DD: The car was AI legal, but since I had never driven on track I went through the NASA HPDE race craft school. I did two weekends of race craft school, then I started the races from the back of the pack, getting a feel for how everything flows..............................

(I took the liberty of putting the pertinent information in bold)

Some food for thought if nothing else. :read:

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beer:

 

[mltohland]

Bruce Almighty, a Fab-5-Ford,

You've got me thinking so I'm going to ask a pertinent question. But first let me lay some ground work.

A lot of people are entering the world of club racing. They see this as the first time to drive in excess of thier traditional "highway speed limit". There are no police, no speed limit signs and a lot of bravado moving around the pits. They know they can drive faster than the legal limit and are going to test their equipment. Since the really conservative cars are running in the "D" class and they have 500 rwhp, they naturally assume they belong in the "A" group. This becomes a recipe for disaster.

Once out on the track, they see a car speed off into thin air (probably a Fab-5-Ford), so they accelerate, and 500rwhp gives them the power. Then comes the corner. They don't know how to settle their car, miss the proper entry, hit the brakes and almost loose it. But since they survived, they hit the gas and race on. Then an experienced car that is DRIVEN PROPERLY AND PROBABLY SAFELY comes up from behind. This presents 500rwhp with two choices. 1, they point by. 2, they hit the gas. More often than not, they will hit the gas. They are invincible. Heck they have 500rwhp, and on the next corner they miss the entry again and go off track. Hopefully they don't take anyone else out.

Now we all know that the 500rwhp guy should have yielded, but since they don't a dangerous situation presents itself. THE 500RWHP PERSON IS WRONG, PERIOD! They are endangering everyone else.

My question for everyone out there, is should the car behind ride the 500rwhp car to IMPRESS UPON HIM to move over, or should the car behind wait to confront the 500rwhp guy in the pits after the session.

I'm personally too new to this sport to know the right answer.

 

[ac427cobra]

Dave:

There really isn't a protocol for this. I have only confronted ONE person in about 50 track events for not letting me by. This is because I was extremely pissed off about the situation and it happened to be Bobby Cadillac at the NASA event. My Buddy Tom (pilot of Black Death) went with me and we both gave him an earful. If he wouldn't have been SOOOOO slow in the corners it would not have bothered me as much. But he had something like 480 RWHP and there just was NO getting by him on the straights. To add insult to the problem, they said they didn't want us passing in the braking zones either! :fart: This crap went on for multiple sessions. I ended up riding his ass at a very unsafe distance which in hindsight probably wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. But at least he could drive and didn't crash!

IMHO the best thing to do is bring it up in general terms at the driver's meetings without pointing fingers or naming names. But those are typically only once a day in the morning.

FWIW

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[Flying Fred]

You asked a good question Dave and once again I agree with Bruce's response. Here are some of my thoughts: While you are correct about race tracks giving people the chance to test the limits of thier car, the key is that everybody (especially newbies) should serious consider the situation. We come for the enjoyment of going fast, but it is important remember that there are risks involved. I always recommend driving schools for starters because regardless of natural ability, there are numerous skills to be learned which make you both safer and faster. So why do people fall into the situation you described? Ego and/or sheer stupidity.

As for how to handle these problems, part of it depends on the venue. NASA has different levels and my understanding is they are supposed to correspond to driver, not car, ability (if I'm wrong, hopefully other NASA regulars on this forum will correct me). Time Trials/Group 4 has a "wild" assortment of cars - from stock daily drivers to faster than lightning track monsters. Regardless of the car, the general expectation is that the driver belongs in this advanced group. Unfortunately NASA's on line registration allows one to go wherever they want, which means inexperienced and/or unqualified drivers end up in the advanced groups. Hence the reason why Bruce and others were so disenchanted with the August event.

For other clubs, it can be a different story. On the whole Northwoods has done a decent job of keeping an eye on who is in what groups. They consider both driver experience and lap times when they assign groups. And if there are problems like Bruce and gang faced at NASA, they are willing to take action by talking to and/or reassigning drivers.

Other driving school/OT events may have a mix of fast and slow cars in their top group. CMR at the Glen comes to mind where we passed a Lightning 2-3 times every session. BUT he did not drive recklessly and always let us by. I have no problem with that and prefer to be on the track with him over someone who may "take me out".

And finally, back to Dave's basic question.... do you push the guy or wait? In OT events my usual routine is to get close enough so he knows I am there, yet be patient while in non-passing zones. If they don't get the hint, yes, I close the gap. If they go off track because I am close behind, I have little/no guilt about it. After all, I gave them reasonable chances to point me by which were unwisely ignored. I should mention that while I may stay close behind for a while, I won't do it excessively. If I see it's going nowhere, I will come into the pits for "spacing". I am also likely to notify one of the event people after the session so they can speak to the person.