Opinions on what I will run tonight?

[ponygt65]

Her car trapped almost 106mph. I did alot of searching on the Mach boards about where they all were shifting at with bolt ons since I obviously don't own a Mach but I would be racing one. More than one person said they were running faster shifting into 4th gear at 6,200rpms.

Yep..I've heard both, but more guys tend to favor 4th. I did the one Time I took the DSG. That wasn't worth a shit though. LOL

I never driven a stock Mach 1 that revs to 7k....

I read about shifting the car earlier... at what RPM does the car make peak horsepower?

Roughly 5600-5800 RPMs. Depends on mods, etc. 65-68 is where K and MA should test their first shift. NOt above 68 and not below 65. Just need to toy with it.

LMFAO at this guy!!

The fact that you came in here to post that had me cracking up.:lol::beer:

 

[DARK GEARS]

Yep..I've heard both, but more guys tend to favor 4th. I did the one Time I took the DSG. That wasn't worth a shit though. LOL

Roughly 5600-5800 RPMs. Depends on mods, etc. 65-68 is where K and MA should test their first shift. NOt above 68 and not below 65. Just need to toy with it.

The fact that you came in here to post that had me cracking up.:lol::beer:

It makes sense to shift earlier since it's not longer producing power at higher RPM's. I used to shift my 96 GT around 5300 because it was pointless to take it up to 6200 or whatever the redline was on that car.

mystical is a tool.

 

[98 N/A 4V]

It makes sense to shift earlier since it's not longer producing power at higher RPM's. I used to shift my 96 GT around 5300 because it was pointless to take it up to 6200 or whatever the redline was on that car.

mystical is a tool.

The misconception that a lot of people have is that when you shift into the next gear you put the rpms below the engines powerband thus loosing momentum/acceleration. When you shift a car you want to shift at an rpm where the rpms going into the next gear are at/near peak torque.

-Mark

 

[ponygt65]

The misconception that a lot of people have is that when you shift into the next gear you put the rpms below the engines powerband thus loosing momentum/acceleration. When you shift a car you want to shift at an rpm where the rpms going into the next gear are at/near peak torque.

-Mark

+1.

It takes knowing a motors powerband and the tranny gears to truly hit ideal points. Every car is different. :beer:

 

[STAMPEDE3]

After I finish handing out infractions I'll post my opinion on this thread.

Some of you may have a few weeks to think about shift points.

 

[Stopsign32v]

After I finish handing out infractions I'll post my opinion on this thread.

Some of you may have a few weeks to think about shift points.

< Cant afford anymore

BTW Stamped you didn't post what you thought the car would run. :bash: I will be taking it back to the track this friday maybe in a one last chance to get it into the 12's. And if it runs 13.2 for the 3rd time I'm aiming for the wall!! :cuss:

 

[STAMPEDE3]

< Cant afford anymore

BTW Stamped you didn't post what you thought the car would run. :bash: I will be taking it back to the track this friday maybe in a one last chance to get it into the 12's. And if it runs 13.2 for the 3rd time I'm aiming for the wall!! :cuss:

I didn't get to the infractions yet, I'm a little busy at work. lol

My opinion, And take it how you want, call me names if you want.

I've been doing this for ~23 years pretty steady. My first trip down the track was a couple days after getting my license at 15 in 1985. Driven everything from bone stock 83GT to 7 sec dragsters.


I've driven my cars, brothers cars, cousins cars and people I don't really know cars.
I am not claiming to be John Force but with years of bracket racing and trying all different kinds of cars, combos, launch RPMs and SHIFT POINTS, I have NEVER and I say NEVER had a car run faster times by short shifting.

They have always come by taking it to redline being automatic or manual tranny.

Looking at Dyno graphs is fine but if using the 500RPM above peak shift point puts you at 6500 to shift do you not think that the little bit the car slows (Depending on how fast you can shift) will actually bring the RPMs a little under where you want them to be when you hit the next gear?


Now add the little extra inertia from the motor spinning a couple hundred extra RPMs when you shift?
Not to mention that the graphs normally show TQ pretty flat in that area

So IMO the extra inerta will overcome the few TQ/HP numbers you are down in the next gear.

Maybe it is just me and my driving/shifting style? IDK but I hopped in many cars of friends/relitives/others who were short shifting and ran faster times than them in their own car in the first pass.

A while back, cousin running a blown notch all night at 11.8
My first time in the car ever (Even seeing it for the first time that night) was 11.6. And he used to race quite a bit himself.

Not trying to blow my own horn but this has been my experience in the past years. Like I said it may just be my driving/shifting that fits:shrug:

But it has never happened to me.

So don't exactly tell Mystical he doesn't know shit because it just may be that he has experienced the same thing.:shrug:

:beer::beer::beer:


Infractions after lunch.

 

[kezell]

For the mach to run any faster would be aginst the law of physics...

 

[Stopsign32v]

I've been doing this for ~23 years pretty steady. My first trip down the track was a couple days after getting my license at 15 in 1985. Driven everything from bone stock 83GT to 7 sec dragsters.

You've been drag racing almost as long as I've been alive so definately cant say you don't know what you're doing. :dancenana:

 

[STAMPEDE3]

BTW, Car should be 12.8-9 pretty easily.

I'd also wring out each gear more and try to go through the traps in 3rd.

 

[ponygt65]

I didn't get to the infractions yet, I'm a little busy at work. lol

My opinion, And take it how you want, call me names if you want.

I've been doing this for ~23 years pretty steady. My first trip down the track was a couple days after getting my license at 15 in 1985. Driven everything from bone stock 83GT to 7 sec dragsters.


I've driven my cars, brothers cars, cousins cars and people I don't really know cars.
I am not claiming to be John Force but with years of bracket racing and trying all different kinds of cars, combos, launch RPMs and SHIFT POINTS, I have NEVER and I say NEVER had a car run faster times by short shifting.

They have always come by taking it to redline being automatic or manual tranny.

Looking at Dyno graphs is fine but if using the 500RPM above peak shift point puts you at 6500 to shift do you not think that the little bit the car slows (Depending on how fast you can shift) will actually bring the RPMs a little under where you want them to be when you hit the next gear?


Now add the little extra inertia from the motor spinning a couple hundred extra RPMs when you shift?
Not to mention that the graphs normally show TQ pretty flat in that area

So IMO the extra inerta will overcome the few TQ/HP numbers you are down in the next gear.

Maybe it is just me and my driving/shifting style? IDK but I hopped in many cars of friends/relitives/others who were short shifting and ran faster times than them in their own car in the first pass.

A while back, cousin running a blown notch all night at 11.8
My first time in the car ever (Even seeing it for the first time that night) was 11.6. And he used to race quite a bit himself.

Not trying to blow my own horn but this has been my experience in the past years. Like I said it may just be my driving/shifting that fits:shrug:

But it has never happened to me.

So don't exactly tell Mystical he doesn't know shit because it just may be that he has experienced the same thing.:shrug:

:beer::beer::beer:


Infractions after lunch.

I respectfully disagree.

maybe I misunderstand what you are saying, but it appears you are suggesting to whine out every gear to redline. Sorry, but depending on how close the tranny gears are, that 'may' take you out of ideal powerband of the next gear. IDK if your comment of dyno sheets was in reference to my posting them or not, but in case it is (or if anyone takes it that way) I merely posted them because Mark requested it. I believe Mark understands the point I was trying to make. The gap between 1st and sec. is ~1.38's difference but 2-3 is only ~.65. The shift points will be different in relation to where the power is being made. Given every car is different with power bands and gears, that will make a difference on where you shift.

Also, on a side point, Magazine racers shift all cars all gears at or near redline and post up some of the crappiest times.

I guess all of this depends heavily on what one would call 'short shifting'. IMO the suggestion I made (pending some variable rpms, we all know he has to 'test it out') has been tried and proven in a 3650 with the mach motor light bolt on tune or untuned.

No disrespect to you stampede as your experience speaks for itself and you have way more seat time than I (I'm only 30 HA!), but I've also taken a few trips down the 1320 and pulled better times than most were able too. I don't ever expect to do that with any given car though, as i don't know every car.


That's my two cents anyway.

 

[Stopsign32v]

BTW, Car should be 12.8-9 pretty easily.

I'd also wring out each gear more and try to go through the traps in 3rd.

I'm going to try the holding the car in 3rd one run and see what happens. I hope this friday there aren't alot of people there. It will be the second TNT for the season. Maybe I can get 2 runs in this time. :rollseyes I'm going to try to be one of the first ones at the gate like Mark said. HOPE she runs 12's if we end up going. If not, the tune and gears will make it a walk in the park.

 

[ponygt65]

I'm going to try the holding the car in 3rd one run and see what happens. I hope this friday there aren't alot of people there. It will be the second TNT for the season. Maybe I can get 2 runs in this time. :rollseyes I'm going to try to be one of the first ones at the gate like Mark said. HOPE she runs 12's if we end up going. If not, the tune and gears will make it a walk in the park.

I'd guess mid 12s with traction after that happens. (12.4-12.6) :beer:

 

[Stopsign32v]

Yea after a tune and gears I told MA the goal will be a 12.5

 

[ponygt65]

Yea after a tune and gears I told MA the goal will be a 12.5

That's a realistic goal IMO.:beer:

 

[STAMPEDE3]

I respectfully disagree.

maybe I misunderstand what you are saying, but it appears you are suggesting to whine out every gear to redline. Sorry, but depending on how close the tranny gears are, that 'may' take you out of ideal powerband of the next gear. IDK if your comment of dyno sheets was in reference to my posting them or not, but in case it is (or if anyone takes it that way) I merely posted them because Mark requested it. I believe Mark understands the point I was trying to make. The gap between 1st and sec. is ~1.38's difference but 2-3 is only ~.65. The shift points will be different in relation to where the power is being made. Given every car is different with power bands and gears, that will make a difference on where you shift.

Also, on a side point, Magazine racers shift all cars all gears at or near redline and post up some of the crappiest times.

I guess all of this depends heavily on what one would call 'short shifting'. IMO the suggestion I made (pending some variable rpms, we all know he has to 'test it out') has been tried and proven in a 3650 with the mach motor light bolt on tune or untuned.

No disrespect to you stampede as your experience speaks for itself and you have way more seat time than I (I'm only 30 HA!), but I've also taken a few trips down the 1320 and pulled better times than most were able too. I don't ever expect to do that with any given car though, as i don't know every car.


That's my two cents anyway.

I know what you are saying, I know how it works. I know and understand the theory behind it.
As far as the dyno sheets I was only stating that useing them as a tool to find shift points is fine but it is not perfect.
Just like things here at work, daily we get engineers telling us this will work (On paper it does) and in the feild it doesn't work worth a crap.

Take the 6500 shift, If it puts you just at peak TQ and HP is rising fine but the little speed you lose during shift puts you another 50-100RPMs below where you should be according to the sheet you need to build back to it.

Now take it to redline 6800 you fall a little after peak TQ but TQ is relitivly flat there so you only lose a few FT Lbs TQ and HP is on the rise so your higher in the HP range.

I'm thinking the Extra RPMs and inertia from it negates the little TQ was falling off in the last 300 RPMs before you shifted.

That is my theory and opinion.
I am not an engineer and don't do the best at explaining things so I hope it made sense to you.

All I have to back it up is years of brackets and trying different things and KNOWING I've NEVER run a quicker ET shifting below redline in any car.

 

[Stopsign32v]

KNOWING I've NEVER run a quicker ET shifting below redline in any car.

I have. My 5.0 turbo ran 122mph trap speed shifting at 5,200rpms. When I took the car to 5,500rpms the car ran 118mph. The car redlined at 6,000rpms. These runs were all in the same night too with no changes.

 

[ponygt65]

I know what you are saying, I know how it works. I know and understand the theory behind it.
As far as the dyno sheets I was only stating that useing them as a tool to find shift points is fine but it is not perfect.
Just like things here at work, daily we get engineers telling us this will work (On paper it does) and in the feild it doesn't work worth a crap.

Take the 6500 shift, If it puts you just at peak TQ and HP is rising fine but the little speed you lose during shift puts you another 50-100RPMs below where you should be according to the sheet you need to build back to it.

Now take it to redline 6800 you fall a little after peak TQ but TQ is relitivly flat there so you only lose a few FT Lbs TQ and HP is on the rise so your higher in the HP range.

I'm thinking the Extra RPMs and inertia from it negates the little TQ was falling off in the last 300 RPMs before you shifted.

That is my theory and opinion.
I am not an engineer and don't do the best at explaining things so I hope it made sense to you.

All I have to back it up is years of brackets and trying different things and KNOWING I've NEVER run a quicker ET shifting below redline in any car.

AHAHAHHAH......I'm SO on the same page with your engineer comment. :beer::rockon: Some of those guys crack me the **** up. LOL

Dont' worry, I understand what your saying. That's why I suggested to Stop to 'try' 6500, 6300, 6300 and go from there. He may find that 66-67-68 works best for his 1-2 and 65-64 for his 2-3. He'll just have to 'play around' for a tad to see what nets the best TS/ET.


Let us K how it goes man.! Tell MA to get some good vids.:beer:

 

[STAMPEDE3]

I have. My 5.0 turbo ran 122mph trap speed shifting at 5,200rpms. When I took the car to 5,500rpms the car ran 118mph. The car redlined at 6,000rpms. These runs were all in the same night too with no changes.

What was the ET.
I bracket race to win, I don't worry as much about trap speed. lol


BTW, when you spin off the line trap is usually higher.
ET is lower but trap is higher.
Spinning on shift effects it also.

I would like to know how many who race seriously have found this.
Not talking guys who go every now and then but guys who go all the time. Guys with cars running .05 from their dial in.
That is what I was used to.

It would be to easy to go every couple months or so even weeks, try different things and go a little quicker than last time.

When you take a car that will run cosistant 9.5x on a 9.50 dial in week after week and change things that is when you get a real feeling for what is happeneing.
And I'll say it again, I never had one ET better short shifting.

 

[BlueSnake01]

I know what you are saying, I know how it works. I know and understand the theory behind it.
As far as the dyno sheets I was only stating that useing them as a tool to find shift points is fine but it is not perfect.
Just like things here at work, daily we get engineers telling us this will work (On paper it does) and in the feild it doesn't work worth a crap.

Take the 6500 shift, If it puts you just at peak TQ and HP is rising fine but the little speed you lose during shift puts you another 50-100RPMs below where you should be according to the sheet you need to build back to it.

Now take it to redline 6800 you fall a little after peak TQ but TQ is relitivly flat there so you only lose a few FT Lbs TQ and HP is on the rise so your higher in the HP range.

I'm thinking the Extra RPMs and inertia from it negates the little TQ was falling off in the last 300 RPMs before you shifted.

That is my theory and opinion.
I am not an engineer and don't do the best at explaining things so I hope it made sense to you.

All I have to back it up is years of brackets and trying different things and KNOWING I've NEVER run a quicker ET shifting below redline in any car.

Hmmm, but I wouldve thought that some car's are better shifting below redling kind of like the 5.0's since they have soo much tourqe and no high end. Considering that the Mach 1's start to loose power at high rpms unlike the Cobra's.