Predator Timing Adjustment

[Twinturbo Ranger]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but there were hot rods way before the new "dyno craze" and people tuned by reading there plugs. I just get a little tickled sometimes.

Pyro- Are you using 91 octane? I just wondered since you are in California. I would bet that your issue is timing and not fuel related (except for octane). I fell pretty confident that Diablo has a consevative A/F mxture in there tune if they are giving the end user adjustablity. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks Mike

 

[§ilver§nake]

Originally posted by Pyro
...SilverSnake, you're not a lawyer are you?

I am not a lawyer; but, being the president of a company, ensures that I interface with them on a regular basis.

 

[Pyro]

Originally posted by Twinturbo Ranger
I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but there were hot rods way before the new "dyno craze" and people tuned by reading there plugs. I just get a little tickled sometimes.

Pyro- Are you using 91 octane? I just wondered since you are in California. I would bet that your issue is timing and not fuel related (except for octane). I fell pretty confident that Diablo has a consevative A/F mxture in there tune if they are giving the end user adjustablity. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks Mike

My thoughts exactly!! I pulled some timing and I no longer hear any audible pinging. I also richened up the fuel but it was only a hair under 1 a/f point. 15% equals 1 a/f point and I went to 12% since I thought the same thing you did regarding the stock set up. One thing that Ox03 pointed out was that the "Diablo Pulley" tune is set for 12-14 3#'s and a 2.80" pulley sets me at approximately 15#'s. As such, I would expect to make some adjustments. Anyway, I feel better now that I made the adjustments at least until I can get a dyno tune. The big improvement with the 2.80" is that the power comes on without having to go WOT. Regardless, I plan on taking it easy until I can get a dyno tune.

Thanks for the input.

BTW, it's truly a monster now. WOT is a scary proposition even on the freeway! 1/2 or 3/4 throttle is enough to put a smile on my face and turd stains in the passegers underpants. :thumbsup:

 

[Soap]

Has anyone Autotap'ed their Predator programs yet??

--Joe

 

[maoun]

what people need is a wideband...i'll be getting mine soon...till then my predator's staying conservative

 

[bassin247]

Originally posted by Soap
Has anyone Autotap'ed their Predator programs yet??

--Joe

you dont need to autotap your predator because the predator is an autotap.

 

[SolidSnake]

I am sorry, but I will say this now. When we have non-tuners messing with the car's timing and a/f ratios, we will be seeing alot more popped engines. Godd luck guys, but I don't want to see this happen. Use the Predator in the presence of a knowledgeable tuner, don't take that risk. Get it on a dyno and look for a/f's and ask what timing is safe, don't try to do it yourself.

 

[Black2003Cobra]

Hm...this is getting all a little too scary. Like maybe a custom-tuned chip is a better way to go? (I know, I know...it's been asked a gazillion times.)

 

[lethal]

Wow, how is this so difficult? Gee, I want to have my car tuned, steps....

1) Buy Predator and pulley.
2) Schedule dyno time.
3) Install components, drive slowly to dyno.
4) Dump in tune, test, have tuner make adjustments until your safe and fast. Tuner can send tune to Diablo to be modified as needed, or make adjustments via the built in options.

Really... that's all it takes.

John

 

[Black2003Cobra]

Yes, it all sounds very simple....if you have a Diablo tuner near by. If not, then what?

 

[davidmax]

I agree you cant beat a Dyno with engine brake for optimum tunning on forced air motors.The wide band 02 IMHO should be sealed with an afterburner adjusts your A/F every 400 rpm so you can be confident that you wont run into an overlean condition once the Afterburner is set up right.
I wish you all luck in finding a good tuner to meet your needs.Dave Smilovic

 

[lethal]

Originally posted by Black2003Cobra
Yes, it all sounds very simple....if you have a Diablo tuner near by. If not, then what?

I wouldn't do adjustments with a car unless I could get to a dyno. If I didn't have a dyno available, pull the plugs, or put in a fresh set, then I would load the program for the mods I had, listen for pinging, and pull the plugs after to check.

If your concerned, richen the mixture with the Predator. Other people order chips via mail and take a chance, this is no different. Well, it is different since this one you can adjust. Its your call and your decision on how much risk you choose to take. Your other option is to not mod at all.

John

 

[Pyro]

So you guys are saying that I bought a tuner that I shouldn't adjust (hello, it's adjustable) because I dont do it for a living? You all sound a bit paranoid. Remember, the Predator only allows for MINOR adjustments. For example, the most you can change the a/f ratio is ONE POINT!!! This means that if you have an a/f ratio of 12.5 from the "Diablo Pulley" tune, then you can lean it out to 13.5 or richen it up toe 11.5. Either way is NOT going to destroy the engine. If it would, Diablosport set themselves up for lawsuits. Gross adjustments needs to be created and downloaded via authorized software called Evolution software (I believe that's what it's called). You guys are sounding like you've never changed timing on an early model muscle car or richened up an a/f mixture on a carb. Funny but back in my highschool autoshop, we made these changes on pricey cars (at the time) like my 82 Capri 5.0 (high end Mustang from Mercury) and expensive hot rods like 68 Camaro drag cars. Let's not get all caught up in the hi-tech part of this. Predator adjustments are like a 1/4 turn of the idle screw on a Holley (approximately). If the Predator was not meant to be adjustable, it wouldn't allow you to. They knew people would adjust them so they made them very minor. Yes, if you advance the timing as far as it goes and you are running 17 psi with a 2.75" pulley and floor it up a grade with 87 octane, you are asking for it. You all need to relax and realize the reality of the Predator. The key thing to the Predator is the tunes that accompanies the unit which is why they took so long to make the two most universal and common tunes out there and allow us to micro tune it. THAT'S ALL.

If I buy a Predator, plug it in, and never change any of the parameters for fear of breakage, I might as well get a chip and pay someone to reburn it so you can add 2 degrees of timing or to reduce the a/f by 1 point. Sorry for the rant but you guys are sounding like people who have never worked under the hood of a car. As someone stated before, hotrodders have been tuning cars long before the dyno craze and computer programs. Also, remember that the Predator only adjusts parameters at WOT. -Peace-

 

[lethal]

Pyro-

I agree, but for those who are "waiting for people to blow up their cars" then I say do it right, with the right tools. Diablo takes no responsibility for you using this thing on your car, its in the manual.

Common sense is all that is lacking here. If you modify your car and your comfortable with that, do it. If your not, pay someone to do it. The Predator (IMO) is much more then a chip, its a data logger, code scanner, and one helluva neat toy.

John

 

[SolidSnake]

Neat toy...wooo hooo. I just spent $400 plus on something I can use to adjust my car ONE WHOLE A/F point. I have a chip tunes by a competant tuner, and I am happy and I KNOW it's safe. The guy knows what he is doing, I however, will not take a 35k chance with my engine and start playing witch doctor with some new toy.

The datalogger is a cool part of it, and the code scanner is cool too. I agree about that.

 

[Pyro]

Originally posted by lethal

Common sense is all that is lacking here. If you modify your car and your comfortable with that, do it. If your not, pay someone to do it. The Predator (IMO) is much more then a chip, its a data logger, code scanner, and one helluva neat toy.

John

Common sense is the key!! I agree 100%. My mods are pretty close to the "Diablo Pulley" tune parameters with the exception of 1lb of boost so I need to adjust for it AND my adjustments are towards the safe side, not the aggressive side. Pulling timing and adding a hair under 1 a/f point just makes it that much safer IMO. I agree with everyone if I was advancing the timing as far as it goes, going the opposite direction (leaning out) with the fuel, then messing with the other parameters. I guess this is where common sense comes in. Remember, I am NOT creating a custom tune, I am simply making a supposedly safe Diablo tune safer. I really have no other choice short of de-modding. I'm just making it safe until I can get onto a dyno. In short, you guys are preaching to the choir because I actually toned down the tune in a way. Anyway, everyones advice is appreciated and I will keep everyone posted on my progress as I'm sure the other "adjusters" (not tuners) will also.

 

[2thman]

Originally posted by SolidSnake
Neat toy...wooo hooo. I just spent $400 plus on something I can use to adjust my car ONE WHOLE A/F point. I have a chip tunes by a competant tuner, and I am happy and I KNOW it's safe. The guy knows what he is doing, I however, will not take a 35k chance with my engine and start playing witch doctor with some new toy.

The datalogger is a cool part of it, and the code scanner is cool too. I agree about that.

I think your off a little. You can get a file from your competant tuner emailed to you, upload it into Pred and then flash to your car. No pulling chip to send back for revisions. Then you can datalog your new flash tune. Tune is the same, just the Pred makes installation EASIER, no bad contact/loose chip, down time while you wait for chip back, other hassels. THAT is the reason I got it, I like to make changes and this tool will make that alot simpler. I will not be 'self-tuning' my car, even tho I am a licensed witch doctor in my state:chicken:

jason

 

[Soap]

Originally posted by bassin247
you dont need to autotap your predator because the predator is an autotap.

Actually it isn't. Does Predator tell you your fuel injector pulse widths, or MAP?? Autotap is a much further in depth data logger than Predator.

Then let me ask this...........does Predator tell you the total timing advance?? Or does it only ask you if you want to add or subtract timing.

--Joe

 

[BOOOOST]

Originally posted by SolidSnake
Neat toy...wooo hooo. I just spent $400 plus on something I can use to adjust my car ONE WHOLE A/F point. I have a chip tunes by a competant tuner, and I am happy and I KNOW it's safe. The guy knows what he is doing, I however, will not take a 35k chance with my engine and start playing witch doctor with some new toy.

Nothing against you, but you're way off base here. The only difference between your chip and the Predator is the method at which the tune is installed on the vehicle, plus the Predator giving you more options, abilities, and features. Any Predator can have the tunes changed in them. The files that are on them were dyno tested tunes with multiple 2003 Cobras of differing mods, JUST HOW YOUR DEALER BUILDS TUNES FOR CHIPS!!!

 

[BOOOOST]

Originally posted by Soap
Actually it isn't. Does Predator tell you your fuel injector pulse widths, or MAP?? Autotap is a much further in depth data logger than Predator.

Yes, it tells you MAP and fuel injector pulse widths (FUELPW, FUELPW1, FUELPW2).

Then let me ask this...........does Predator tell you the total timing advance?? Or does it only ask you if you want to add or subtract timing.

Naturally the Predator tells you total timing advance. The Predator logs over 400 parameters. It is as complete as Autotap in the logging department. Once the PC software is released in the next few weeks, then you can just toss your Autotap out the door . The beauty of the Predator is that you do not have to lug around a laptop just to log data, unlike Autotap. Once you have it logged, then you can export it to your PC, or you can do it live like Autotap; either way.

Take a look at all the available paramaters to log with the Predator:

http://www.runninwiththedevil.com/fordgaspreddiaglist.htm