Qwest for more RPMS or Cubic Inches

[AntiHeightPunk]

I don't know why you are saying this. I'm going down a simpler road now then that path I was looking at before with going with a Ford GT block and all the headaches that would give me. I'm essentially just going with a built 4.6 engine with a Hellion twin turbo setup and the Eaton that came with the car. I can change the boost as needed to change the streetability of the car.

If I build everything to handle the HP from the beginning, I shouldn't have many problems. Upgrading the T-56 to the viper spec, return style fuel system, 68 or 80 pound injectors, level 5 or strange half shafts, etc.

Talking with Rick at amazon racing, the compound setup with the Hllion kit is becoming pretty common. With the exception of this engine being stroked and bored, it should be the same as most of the other setups.

you are going to break the trans and i bet that IRS is going to be messed up too...also LOL at 68's with that setup brotha i would just do a 2.3l whipple and see if you are satisfied...

 

[95PGTTech]

I don't know why you are saying this. I'm going down a simpler road now then that path I was looking at before with going with a Ford GT block and all the headaches that would give me. I'm essentially just going with a built 4.6 engine with a Hellion twin turbo setup and the Eaton that came with the car. I can change the boost as needed to change the streetability of the car.

If I build everything to handle the HP from the beginning, I shouldn't have many problems. Upgrading the T-56 to the viper spec, return style fuel system, 68 or 80 pound injectors, level 5 or strange half shafts, etc.

Talking with Rick at amazon racing, the compound setup with the Hllion kit is becoming pretty common. With the exception of this engine being stroked and bored, it should be the same as most of the other setups.

read some threads on here. if you've ever done anything serious to a car, or read about people doing serious stuff to their car, you know there is the way they expect it to go smoothly and then the real world eight thousand problems they have to deal with, and sometimes still not get the correct final result.

for starters, you're using MAJOR components from at least 20 different manufacturers all who test fit and R&D'd their parts on a bone stock car, and couldn't give two shits about whether it fits with other brand parts.

have you ever even driven an 80lb injector car? very few tuners out there can get them anywhere near streetable, and then even the honest owners will admit that there is something lacking down low in driveability. this is not LEGOs.

you're completely changing the fuel system.
you're completely changing the maf/injector combo.
you're doing a stroker kit.
you're doing aftermarket sleeves.
you're completely disassembling your very complicated 4.6 4V and refreshing it.
you're adding a very low production count aftermarket turbocharger kit.
you're completely ripping apart the third member and revamping it.
you're getting the car tuned.


this is not my definition of a "simple" build.


other than suspension/interior, which I'm sure you have high plans for, you just built a completely new car from the ground up. I predict this will be three times as expensive as you originally budget, you'll have nightmares getting it tuned, and you'll be fixing it every third time you go to take it out because you just made the recipe so complicated and there is not a single part on the car you haven't overengineered. you're going to eventually hate the car and sell it.

if you want 600whp on 91 octane...full exhaust, 2.3L whipple.
if you want more than that. stock cobra longblock, twin turbochargers, air/air. stock mach1 manifold, bolt it all right on and call it a day.

 

[blackvenom77]

^
the man speaks the truth. So many people find out the hard way.

 

[Silverboost]

Okay, I've been doing some more research and I think the stroked and bored setup is the way to go. Even seems that I can probably do more than 7500 rpms with that setup if the engine is built right. Also will be going with a compound boost setup using the Eaton and a Hellion twin turbo 57 mm kit.

So at this point I think I'll go with the following:
Teksid block with Darton sleeves. Should give 322 CI or 5.27 literes. (Still short 7 CI to make it 5.4 liters though)
DLC coated pistons, pins, etc.
2005 head castings Stage 3 ported by either Nazty or Stiegemeier (God willing, I hope Nazty beats his cancer)
Ported Intake by Nazty
Stage 5 Eaton port by Stiegemeier
Cryogenic treat the block, cranks, sleeves, pistons, rods, etc.

I figure with a 2.76" pulley on the ported Eaton, I'll see about 6-9 pounds of boost. The extra displacement and much improved flow should drop the boost significantly. I figure with just the Eaton I should see mid to high 500's on pump gas (Maybe even 600 with the 7500 rpm red line). Add in the hellion twin 57mm turbo setup and I can adjust boost on the fly with an electronic boost controller. Add another 5-10 PSI and I should be in mid 700's without a problem. The Eaton should make the turbo's spool very quickly.

The weight savings from the teksid block is probably going to be a wash once I add the twin turbo kit. But streetability should be good or bad depending on how much boost I add through the turbo's.

If I still want more at that point or when I go down to Bonneville, I can drop a hundred shot or run torco.

I think this compound setup should give me the most flexibility. Heck, if I wanted, I can just pull the Eaton and put on the 2001 cobra intake and just run the turbo's. I think this is a great plan at this point. With just turbo's I could probably reach high 800's if I wanted.

Money won't be a problem for this. I don't like throwing money away, just like to do all my home work first and move forward with it. So next spring, this is my plan.

There is no way you will get more than mid 500's out of an eaton by itself. Also what is your fascination with making a rediculous amount of power on 91 octane? Why spend so much money on an engine only to give it 91 octane and more than likely end up blowing it up due to detonation?

Stop reading those magazine articles and do some research on here for what really works.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Holy hell!! I can make this very very simple. Build the bottem end better with billet I-beams. coated diamond pistons, port and polish the heads, with a set of custom cams valvesprings ect, keep stock displacement, and buy a Procharger F1A ect blower. You can spin 7500rpm's all day with this setup. it's reliable and u don't need to all this other shit you've listed. You will need a fuel system. Another person to call would be John Griggs at Griggs racing. He spins his motor to 8k.

 

[Ryushin]

big cubes + compound boost + High RPM's = FAIL that eaton is gonna choke up top, Just go turbos

You don't think the Eaton can physically flow 2.76" pulley into a 322 CI motor? You think the Eaton will be an actual restriction in this?

Well, the beauty of doing it this way, if I want to just run turbos for a bit, it's a simple yank the the supercharger and dropping on a 01 cobra intake.

I'm keeping a serious eye on the TVS setup that we should be seeing for the cobra. That would probably be the preferred route.

 

[Ryushin]

There is no way you will get more than mid 500's out of an eaton by itself. Also what is your fascination with making a rediculous amount of power on 91 octane? Why spend so much money on an engine only to give it 91 octane and more than likely end up blowing it up due to detonation?

Stop reading those magazine articles and do some research on here for what really works.

Increased displacement to 522 CI, stage 3 ported heads, ported intake, should get the Eaton to mid 500's.

Because I want to just to the the pump and fill 'er up and have it run fine.

Not so worried about detonation as I will be installing a knock sensor with retard and have a safe tune.

 

[FLYIN]

Increased displacement to 522 CI, stage 3 ported heads, ported intake, should get the Eaton to mid 500's.

How are you going to get 522 CI?

 

[95PGTTech]

you realize that even if your 80lb injectors don't suck down low, you're going to be running like four degrees of total timing because of your 91 octane and those boost levels and the car is going to have very little snap/spunk down low, right?

mole hill into a mountain

 

[Ryushin]

How are you going to get 522 CI?

Sorry, that was a type. Would be nice to have 522 CI. It was supposed to be 322 CI.

 

[Ryushin]

read some threads on here. if you've ever done anything serious to a car, or read about people doing serious stuff to their car, you know there is the way they expect it to go smoothly and then the real world eight thousand problems they have to deal with, and sometimes still not get the correct final result.

for starters, you're using MAJOR components from at least 20 different manufacturers all who test fit and R&D'd their parts on a bone stock car, and couldn't give two shits about whether it fits with other brand parts.

have you ever even driven an 80lb injector car? very few tuners out there can get them anywhere near streetable, and then even the honest owners will admit that there is something lacking down low in driveability. this is not LEGOs.

you're completely changing the fuel system.
you're completely changing the maf/injector combo.
you're doing a stroker kit.
you're doing aftermarket sleeves.
you're completely disassembling your very complicated 4.6 4V and refreshing it.
you're adding a very low production count aftermarket turbocharger kit.
you're completely ripping apart the third member and revamping it.
you're getting the car tuned.


this is not my definition of a "simple" build.


other than suspension/interior, which I'm sure you have high plans for, you just built a completely new car from the ground up. I predict this will be three times as expensive as you originally budget, you'll have nightmares getting it tuned, and you'll be fixing it every third time you go to take it out because you just made the recipe so complicated and there is not a single part on the car you haven't overengineered. you're going to eventually hate the car and sell it.

if you want 600whp on 91 octane...full exhaust, 2.3L whipple.
if you want more than that. stock cobra longblock, twin turbochargers, air/air. stock mach1 manifold, bolt it all right on and call it a day.

I'm going to be doing this in stages stages.

First: Upgrade the car so it can handle the power. Full MM grip kit including the IRS, full sub frames with matrix bracing, Baer big brake kit, new half shafts, upgrade the transmission to viper spec and add a twin disc clutch, full return style fuel system, full Evan's cooling system.

Second have the 2005+ heads sent to be ported. Then have someone who knows what they are doing build the motor. Someone like Al Papito or similar qualified builder. Port the Eaton or go with a TVS. Install the engine, put in 68 pound injectors and necessary fuel upgrades such as new rails, MAF, J&S Vampire knock sensor, etc. Have Rick at Amazon Racing tune it.

Drive it for a month and make sure there are no issues.

Install the Hellion twin turbo kit with 57mm turbo's and run an electronic boost controller. Run about 5 pounds at boost first to make sure everything is happy. Have Rick at Amazon Racing tune it.

Then I can play with it from there.

I understand that there are a lot of people that have had major problems. But there are plenty of people that have built their stuff and had it go somewhat smoothly.

As for time and money. Well, I have more money than time. But I enjoy working on cars and if it takes awhile to get everything built then so be it. As for the money part, I have my own business, house will be paid off by March. In five years or so I will be looking at buying a Ford GT. I will four primary cars in my stable. 03 cobra, 68 Eleanor with the engine from my 03 cobra (This is going to be the time consuming beast to set up), a Ford GT, and bad weather driver such as a Evo X MR. I'm not some young kid. In fact I wish I was a young kid again, but alas, I just reached over the hill this summer.

I mostly look for this site to offer encouragement and sound advice. Things like potential pitfalls and other things that I have not considered. In general have fun with such an amazing car and one I feel lucky to own.

 

[Ryushin]

Holy hell!! I can make this very very simple. Build the bottem end better with billet I-beams. coated diamond pistons, port and polish the heads, with a set of custom cams valvesprings ect, keep stock displacement, and buy a Procharger F1A ect blower. You can spin 7500rpm's all day with this setup. it's reliable and u don't need to all this other shit you've listed. You will need a fuel system. Another person to call would be John Griggs at Griggs racing. He spins his motor to 8k.

I'll talk to Griggs. Sounds like someone good to keep in in mind when it comes time to pull the trigger on all of this.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Yea I would do that.. your build is to complex right now.. TT with a blower, sleeving, boring, stroking.. to much going on and it'll become very unreliable.. spinning 7500rpm it's hard to do with cams, intake, heads/vavletrain. Get a F1 blower with the setup I said and be done with it..

 

[Silverboost]

I would keep it simple. If your bottom end is good then I would just throw a twinscrew on the car or do twin 57mm turbo's. I wouldn't waste your time with ported heads, cams, more cubic inches, crazy rpms, etc.

If you got more money than time then I would go ahead and get a couple 50 gallon barrels of race gas so you can put some good fuel in the car and still be able to do it at your own personal "pump"

 

[Ryushin]

Well, the stock motor has to go. I will be doing the Silver State Classic and going to Bonneville. 210 mph at Bonneville is going to be a goal along with an average speed of 160+ at the Silver State Classic.

I don't know what the big deal is to re-sleeve a motor. Seems to be a fairly common occurrence with built 4.6 blocks that are used for racing.

I'd go straight twin turbo before using a centrifugal. Centrifugal just isn't for me.

 

[95PGTTech]

I still don't understand why the stock motor has to go. You seem to feel that throwing infinite money at the "best parts" at the car is going to somehow make it fast and reliable. Look at racecars - they are effective and reliable because they are SIMPLE.

You have so many bells and whistles in your setup. What happens when a wastegate fails shut in a top gear pull?

I asked you about the injectors, I'll ask you another: have you ever had a built motor done? LOL there is no fast builder on Earth, especially Al Papito. Get ready to be frustrated, quotes on time and money run WAY over.

 

[97desertCobra]

Well, the stock motor has to go. I will be doing the Silver State Classic and going to Bonneville. 210 mph at Bonneville is going to be a goal along with an average speed of 160+ at the Silver State Classic.

I don't know what the big deal is to re-sleeve a motor. Seems to be a fairly common occurrence with built 4.6 blocks that are used for racing.

I'd go straight twin turbo before using a centrifugal. Centrifugal just isn't for me.

If you are considering doing silver state I would reconsider the centri blower option. It works well in that event. You can make sick top end power(which is what you are looking for) and the power is linear, making it easier to apply the power to the street. Also your built to the hilt motor will not last ONE race in silver state with a compound setup making 800 rwhp! If the motor doesnt blow the sheer power EVERY WHERE in the power band will send you into a wall or off the road with the slightest of wrong moves.

Run an F1A with a front mount set up and really focus on suspension most importantly.

 

[Ryushin]

If you are considering doing silver state I would reconsider the centri blower option. It works well in that event. You can make sick top end power(which is what you are looking for) and the power is linear, making it easier to apply the power to the street. Also your built to the hilt motor will not last ONE race in silver state with a compound setup making 800 rwhp! If the motor doesnt blow the sheer power EVERY WHERE in the power band will send you into a wall or off the road with the slightest of wrong moves.

Run an F1A with a front mount set up and really focus on suspension most importantly.

Hence, I will turn down the boost from the turbo's for the SSC. I don't need any more HP than to go faster than 190 during this time. Heck, probably just with the bloerw and the engine I should be fine for that. I could also just switch out to just pure turbo's during the SSC as well. In fact, probably for both events I will just run the twins by themselves and remove the supercharger.

I'm going to daily drive my cobra except during winter. So the F1 just doesn't interest me.

 

[Ryushin]

I still don't understand why the stock motor has to go. You seem to feel that throwing infinite money at the "best parts" at the car is going to somehow make it fast and reliable. Look at racecars - they are effective and reliable because they are SIMPLE.

You have so many bells and whistles in your setup. What happens when a wastegate fails shut in a top gear pull?

I asked you about the injectors, I'll ask you another: have you ever had a built motor done? LOL there is no fast builder on Earth, especially Al Papito. Get ready to be frustrated, quotes on time and money run WAY over.

I know Al Papito can take a long time. Seems to be 3 months is a minimum for him and it can stretch to 6 months. But there is JPC racing and a few others should also be good. I'll do my homework some more before choosing my builder. I've had quite a few push rod engines built for the 5 classic mustangs that I've owned over the years. Heck I've built one of those engines. But I consider them way simpler than the new modular engines. I will get a first rate builder to build my engine.

From what I've researched, Rick at Amazon is probably one of the top two tuners for our cars. I'll let him tune the 80 pound injectors. I'll start with 68 pound and see how far that can take me.

 

[FLYIN]

Sorry, that was a type. Would be nice to have 522 CI. It was supposed to be 322 CI.

I thought so, I was like damn where can I get that kind of displacement. Thought you was going LSx motor Lol.