I might be late on this since you made up your mind. But, I would get a 2010 GT500 over a '08-'09 KR. They have the same power, similiar suspension, look better IMO, parts should not be as big of an issue, and they are much cheaper.
"r" vs 09 kr
- Thread starter 00 Cobra R
- Start date
As with many Mustang enthusiasts, I am having a hard time with the 2010 rear panel and tail lights, to me, for lack of a better discription, it looks "strange". Maybe on a non-retro looking platform it could be less strange. I like the 2010 front, but the back..............:??:
It looks like Ford has attempted blend new with old, and while this transition is happening, some things will appear "strange".
R
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This is an interesting discussion. I have never even seen a KR or a SS.
The SS is $75K? Wow, that is $83K with GA sales tax.
What is the build number on the Super Snake?
Does anyone know the build number (by year) of the GT500?
A guy at last weekend's Mitty race had a new 2010 Mustang GT. It was the first time that I had a good look at the car. Although the consensus opinion (from Mustang racers) was the same as you, I feel I like the new design over the older S197 (front, rear, and side views). I also really like the new Track Pack option on the GT.
And someone wants to buy my 2007 car...:idea:
The SS is $75K? Wow, that is $83K with GA sales tax.
What is the build number on the Super Snake?
Does anyone know the build number (by year) of the GT500?
A guy at last weekend's Mitty race had a new 2010 Mustang GT. It was the first time that I had a good look at the car. Although the consensus opinion (from Mustang racers) was the same as you, I feel I like the new design over the older S197 (front, rear, and side views). I also really like the new Track Pack option on the GT.
And someone wants to buy my 2007 car...:idea:
I was just recently offered a new KR at $1,000 over invoice. But, as has already been said.. the 540hp just doesn't make it worth the money, to me. I also feel the wheels look really small compared to the Super Snakes similar, larger, wheels which fill the wheel wells more proportionally.
But, that hood is GREAT looking!
I also don't think I could ever sell my R for the KR.
But, that hood is GREAT looking!
I also don't think I could ever sell my R for the KR.
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Doc - A 725h.p. Super Snake is about $10K higher than the $75K that you have quoted, and in reality by the time you add the "real" total together, shipping of the car both ways, tax, etc. it can be $85K+. The original prices for the Super Snake packages were $27,995 for the 605h.p. and $31,995 for the 725. This would be on top of a $46K+ GT500 and we know many, many paid on the "+" side of MSRP for their GT500. The Super Snake conversion cost has gone up approx. $2500 on each of these packages since the time my car went through the Mod Shop and now there is a Baer Exteme rear caliper upgrade @ $3774 and a Cooling System Upgrade Package @ $2500.<<,These two figures are for the parts only and do not include labor. I think the Baer Extreme is $3995 installed.
BTW - I just looked through a Super Snake porfolio that I recived from SAI recently. The current 605 package is $29,495 and the 725 is $33,495. This is the basic package without any of the options I mentioned above.
A person can now have close to $100K in a 725 Super Snake and there is also a Shaker stereo upgrade, and interior upgrade, I think these options are about $2K each, and to me, they are not "functional" from a performance standpoint.
Now compare the desireable/functional options that can be had on a Super Snake........6-piston competion level brakes all the way around, Shelby/Eibach coil-over suspension, a cooling system upgrade that will help to keep this car at its power level even in the heat of competion, and 725h.p. with a high efficiency KB blower VS. the KR's Brembo calipers on the front that, to me look very similar to the 00R calipers, handling engineering provided by SVT, a flash to the ECM and a CAI that up the h.p. to 540 and a Carbon Fiber hood, plus any other unique KR items that are part of its production.
^^^^^Above we are comparing two production Shelby's, one designed by Ford and SVT, the other designed by Shelby Automobiles, both built in the same plant if the Super Snake owner chose L.V. for their conversion. This is why I say these cars are very similar, BUT very different. Production number are very important if "like cars" are being compared, these two cars, the SS and the KR, are far from "like".
Now you see why the days of $80K+, $100K+ KR's fell off quickly, and then the 2010 GT500 (and it's specs) were announced. I have seen "new" KR's now in the $60K's. I am also seeing "used" 725's Super Snakes, in the $60's and $70's. I would hate to see what a "used" KR would bid.
Unless Ford offers a 700+h.p. assy. line, fully street legal Shelby, the 725 Super Snake will not have any "production" competition. It will stand on a pedestal all by itself in the Shelby Mustang world. I am also under no illusion that in the future Shelby couldn't offer something like a 750h.p. or greater Super Snake package for a 2010+ Shelby GT500. <<<But will "Ford" offer anything in this power level from the assy. line, fully street legal, is the real question? I would guess not, I may be wrong.
As of right now, the published production numbers for the Super Snake are 1000 for each year, 2007, 2008, 2009. The breakdown will first be, how many 605's vs. 725's? Then how many buyers chose the Shelby/Eibach coil-over option vs. the softer Ford Racing suspension? Comparing these numbers to a KR production is not really a factor, as all KR's are basically the same with only color and stripe differences, NAV and other assy. line options, but nothing that upgraded it's power output and/or performance level. I have heard that there is now an after the fact upgrade to 600h.p. on the KR, but that is only at the entry level of the Super Snake, AND we are comparing what Shelby is offering as part of their Super Snake package vs. what Ford offered as part of their KR package, not additions to each pacakge..........
With the addition of the pricey full Baer Extreme brakes and the Shelby cooling system upgrade, there could be some very limited numbers on some of the Super Snakes, far fewer than the 1600+ KR's. All Super Snakes are not created equal. There is one KR owner that I know of who has had a Super Snake conversion done on his car, now that is rare, kinda like a BOSS 9 Shelby, supposedly there is one.
R
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Robert,
The one factor you've not taken into account is that they are going to keep building SS's supposedly until they reach 1000 for each year which IMHO really creates a problem for resale because the value of a built SS in theory should never exceed the street price of a used Shelby of a particular year plus the cost of the conversion (assuming a potential buyer doesn't see reduction in that price due to the usage of the conversion parts).
On the other hand the KR's are all built so in theory the old supply and demand pricing should come in to play.
The last part of the puzzle is the fact that most people do a majority of the modifications within the first 18 months and are people really going to want to drop $28k+ on a conversion on a car that's 5+ years old? Why would the people who can afford to do this when the latest rage will be to buy the newest Shelby and send it (and a bag full of money) over to Shelby to be converted into an SS.
I'll be very interested to see how the pricing works out on these two vehicles in the long run.
The one factor you've not taken into account is that they are going to keep building SS's supposedly until they reach 1000 for each year which IMHO really creates a problem for resale because the value of a built SS in theory should never exceed the street price of a used Shelby of a particular year plus the cost of the conversion (assuming a potential buyer doesn't see reduction in that price due to the usage of the conversion parts).
On the other hand the KR's are all built so in theory the old supply and demand pricing should come in to play.
The last part of the puzzle is the fact that most people do a majority of the modifications within the first 18 months and are people really going to want to drop $28k+ on a conversion on a car that's 5+ years old? Why would the people who can afford to do this when the latest rage will be to buy the newest Shelby and send it (and a bag full of money) over to Shelby to be converted into an SS.
I'll be very interested to see how the pricing works out on these two vehicles in the long run.
But, in the end, the SS and the KR have build numbers assigned by Shelby, and are recongnized in the Shelby registry as the cars that they are. This is where the value will come into play, who did the conversion. If there is a documented number assigned to each car, by it's builder (Shelby in this case), as there has been in the past, this is what has helped to keep Mustangs, both modified at the Shelby plant (pre-1968) or built on the Ford assy. line (1968-70), up in price.
The GT500 that the average owner buys (1 of 8000, 10,000, whatever) and modifies himself does not have "paperwork". Yes, a GT500 could have less money spent on it and produce more power, and perform better, but the over riding factor is, "who did the modifications" and "what are the cars documented credentials".
I know what you are saying about the 5 year old car and $28K spent on it. It is kind of weird that a 2007, 2008 or 2009 GT500 could be converted into a Super Snake 5 years from now, if the package is still available and the total build number has not been met for that specific year, but this is a post title conversion, it is not bound to a model year build only.<<And Shelby is the only game in town offering 700hp+ with the all important CSM number. That is why I bought new, and my car has been Super Snake since 8.6 original miles. I was not interested in buying something that someone had used, and possibly abused, and then add a bunch of $$$ to an old used GT500.
I am interested in seeing what used GT500KR's sell for currently. Because of their lower power level, and the fact that they were not a Ford assy. line car, will their future value be the cost of a GT500 plus the ECM flash, CAI, CF hood, white shifter ball, unique X and cat-back and a few unique suspension parts?
To me your first paragraph reminds me of someone who would have bought a Mustang GT in the 60's and modified it themselves creating a Shelby, OR it could be someone who owned a Shelby (a GT350) and modded it into a GT500. The problem is, it has no documentation. It is not worth more than the cost of a Mustang GT or GT350 plus the cost of the rare Shelby parts. In comparision to a documented car, there is no comparision. It is, and always has been all about who built it, and what documentation comes with it.
^^^^^^^^^These are all my opinions also, judging from the past.^^^^^^^^^^
There is another thought that has crossed my mind occassionally.........This whole Shelby/retro thing could be a "last gasp" for some of us older guys, and the youth (who will be the future buyers of these cars) won't care anything about Mustangs with some guy named Shelby's name on it. If this is a "reach back", that does not "carry forward", all of this discussion will mean nothing about future values. The Shelby's will be of little interest to the person spending their money on a "collectible Jap car" that they had when they were younger, and they now want to re-live their youth.
R
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Correct build numbers for the Shelby Super Snakes will be 1000 for 07 and 08 and 500 for 09.
40th. Anniversary models are limited to the 07 only and a 500 build. There are also power upgrades avalibe to the 40th. up to the 725 HP Ken Bell. The numbers are very low on this build. Less than 100 numbers remain to complete the build out.
The 2010 Super Snake in currently under delvelopment and in testing. At this time it appears the number will be capped at the same 1000 build. This could change.
The options for the Cooling upgrade package are $2995 installed and include a Shelby/C&R dual core radiator, dual pass intercooler with twin Spal puller fans and aluminum Shelby logo fluid holding tanks for coolant, intercooler and power steering fluid. All factory caps fit the tanks. Testing last summer indicated cylinder head temperature reduction of 50 degrees after a 20 min. full power run at Sebring. Datalog records indicated no timing being pulled with the system equating to virtually no heat soak on the SC. Pretty impressive product and performance.
The Rear 6 piston brake upgrade is $3995 installed as both rear axles must be removed for installation. This system also required a newly engineered emergency brake drum system to facilitate the use of all factory components.
For the younger generation the Terlingua package has begun to catch fire. Take your typical 05-09 Mustang V6, add the Paxton SC, 8.8 rear w/3:73's, 6 piston brake kit, 20" Razor wheels, deep draw heat extractor hood, Ford Racing suspension as on the Shelby GT, engine dress up caps, fuel fill door, rear trunk lid applique, V6 spoiler, Hurst short throw shifter, new front fascia, funtional brake cooling ducts, specific grille and badging, unique decal kit, Borla side exit dual exhaust at a package of around $21,000 on your base V6 stick and you can be out the door for around $32,000. With it's lighter weight and better weight distribution, this car holds it own on most short road courses. And it can be insured as a V6. All numbered, tagged and registered. The entry into the Shelby world.
40th. Anniversary models are limited to the 07 only and a 500 build. There are also power upgrades avalibe to the 40th. up to the 725 HP Ken Bell. The numbers are very low on this build. Less than 100 numbers remain to complete the build out.
The 2010 Super Snake in currently under delvelopment and in testing. At this time it appears the number will be capped at the same 1000 build. This could change.
The options for the Cooling upgrade package are $2995 installed and include a Shelby/C&R dual core radiator, dual pass intercooler with twin Spal puller fans and aluminum Shelby logo fluid holding tanks for coolant, intercooler and power steering fluid. All factory caps fit the tanks. Testing last summer indicated cylinder head temperature reduction of 50 degrees after a 20 min. full power run at Sebring. Datalog records indicated no timing being pulled with the system equating to virtually no heat soak on the SC. Pretty impressive product and performance.
The Rear 6 piston brake upgrade is $3995 installed as both rear axles must be removed for installation. This system also required a newly engineered emergency brake drum system to facilitate the use of all factory components.
For the younger generation the Terlingua package has begun to catch fire. Take your typical 05-09 Mustang V6, add the Paxton SC, 8.8 rear w/3:73's, 6 piston brake kit, 20" Razor wheels, deep draw heat extractor hood, Ford Racing suspension as on the Shelby GT, engine dress up caps, fuel fill door, rear trunk lid applique, V6 spoiler, Hurst short throw shifter, new front fascia, funtional brake cooling ducts, specific grille and badging, unique decal kit, Borla side exit dual exhaust at a package of around $21,000 on your base V6 stick and you can be out the door for around $32,000. With it's lighter weight and better weight distribution, this car holds it own on most short road courses. And it can be insured as a V6. All numbered, tagged and registered. The entry into the Shelby world.
Actually what I'm really saying is that a customer could (in theory), take a 15-20 year old car and turn it into a SS if Shelby hasn't built the 1000 limit. It will be built by Shelby and be in the registry so in theory it is the same as any other SS.
I'm not a big fan of "build them until we reach a certain number". I think the fact that they are still building 40th Anniversary cars and will continue to until they reach 400 units is a joke and is proof that SAI is just interested in the all mightly dollar.
Reminds me of a car I saw a few weeks ago at Barber..
An 07 Shelby Super Snake, that had been "upgraded" to the 427 package, the package to go along with the NASCAR Race - Shelby 427 - back in March at Las Vegas Motor Speedway..
Yes, this is true^^^^^^and if they continue to add Super Snakes to each new GT500, they will be building them forever. Like I said above, it is a unique situation and not the "norm" as has been past practice. I guess another option is to not limit the production number (per year) at all, and build GT500's for anyone who has the money. In theory, "ALL" GT500's could be Super Snakes with no production limits. Speaking of "all mighty dollar", they could drop the price a little and pull as many GT500 owners in as possible with no production limits and then some real $$$ would be made.
But a least there are "limits" on each production year, and there are also "unique" Super Snake production parts that are exclusive to the Super Snake build and are not available to the person wanting a part that is similar in function or look. :thumbsup: This will help to keep the clones to a minimum. Clones being and exact likeness.
R
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I can still buy this Shelby 427 package for my car, or at least I saw it offered in the last month or so. It is a commemorative Pace Car package. It is not for me.
What are your thoughts after seeing this package in person?
R
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Here is #427 of 427 which was sold on eBay:
eBay Motors: Ford : Mustang (item 180327589948 end time Feb-19-09 12:00:00 PST)
It sold for $100K and included:
eBay Motors: Ford : Mustang (item 180327589948 end time Feb-19-09 12:00:00 PST)
It sold for $100K and included:
- A 2009 Shelby GT500 upgraded with the Super Snake and Limited Edition Shelby 427 packages
- The Shelby 427 package is #427, CSM#09SS007 and comes with a Certicate of Authenticity
- The car will be autographed by Carroll Shelby
- Two (2) VIP passes to the Shelby 427 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series in Las Vegas on March 1, 2009
- A meet & greet with Carroll Shelby who will take a personal photo with you and provide an autograph
- Watch the race in the “Shelby” private suite
- A Shelby GT hood signed by Carroll Shelby and the participating NASCAR drivers
- A private Shelby factory tour and tour of Las Vegas Motor Speedway
- 3-day, 2-night hotel accommodations at the Monte Carlo Casino and Resort
:kaboom:
It just looked like another decal/emblem/headrest stitching/hey look at me package.. Not impressed, esp. when I saw it was an 07, that had been upgraded two years after the fact. This thread reminded me of that car..
Yes, I know^^^^^^^^^. That is why it is not for me. The item that is a functional and part of this package is a set of caster/camber.
R
The above car was also a 605 horse as stated in the Q and A portion of the auction...........
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Q. Is a warranty included? Does it follow the transfer of ownership?
A. A. 605HP will carry a 12 month/12,000 mile Ford Motor Company Warranty. The attached link will lead you to Ford Racing Warranty for part # M-6066-SGT (605 HP supercharger).
http://www.fordracingparts.com/warranty/FORD_RACING_LIMITED_WARRANTY_STATEMENT.pdf
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Number 427 of the 427 package didn't hurt it either and it is an 09 model which is a plus. :thumbsup:
I wonder if 725 h.p. would have made a difference in its bids? I'll bet it would have...
R
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