SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Universal Minimum Income

[pwrshft99]

Build and maintain your own door.

Do you have any idea of the thought and ideology with which America was Founded?

Stop asking for someone to hold your hand for you and create/live your own destiny.

America, while flawed, is the freest, richest, most exceptional county in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD. Read that again.


Only YOU are in control of you here. No one else. Period.

Ive earned every damn thing I have. I've worked full time since I was 17, so 21 years now. Providing for myself and my loved ones isn't an issue.

I'm simply stating there is no way the excessively rich will give up a fraction of their lavish lifestyle to give the working class ANYTHING for free. I honestly feel there would be a civil war before a universal income

 

[Screw-Rice]

We can disagree but I'd stand by my point that those in power will do anything to keep that power.

Earthquake and tornado machines?? I never claimed that but there has certainly been research on how to cause such events. I have no doubt there are weapons out there that are unimaginable.

You can't morally wage war on poor people, but when something terrible happens to them... **** it.

Dude, you clearly stated they would cause natural disasters, natural disasters are not man made. Not grasping that incredibly simplistic part (that I keep making fun of, yet it doesn't seem to be clicking) really doesn't lend any credibility to any of your other claims. You and @Rainmaker should have a discussion as you two seem to have eaten the same type of lead paint chips as children.

The 1% are using their moon machines to bring planet Nubu into Earth to crush all the poor people. You heard it here first from the tin foil crew.

 

[gimmie11s]

@pwrshft99 ^^ and they shouldn't.

 

[pwrshft99]

Dude, you clearly stated they would cause natural disasters, natural disasters are not man made. Not grasping that incredibly simplistic part (that I keep making fun of, yet it doesn't seem to be clicking) really doesn't lend any credibility to any of your other claims. You and @Rainmaker should have a discussion as you two seem to have eaten the same type of lead paint chips as children.

The 1% are using their moon machines to bring planet Nubu into Earth to crush all the poor people. You heard it here first from the tin foil crew.

So I'll clear up your whole deal. natural disaster should have been in quotations...

 

[Screw-Rice]

So I'll clear up your whole deal. natural disaster should have been in quotations...

That does not help your cause in the least, LMAO.

 

[pwrshft99]

@pwrshft99 ^^ and they shouldn't.

I'm not arguing they should.

 

[derklug]

If machines were to displace a large percentage of the country, the government would be better off creating jobs the unskilled could do. UMI would leave millions with nothing but time on their hands and resentment for the rich. A better pressure cooker for civil unrest I can not imagine.

 

[pwrshft99]

That does not help your cause in the least, LMAO.

Plain and simple... The rich would kill the poor before providing them with a free ride. That's simply my opinion.

Your welcome to your own.

 

[DHG1078]

Ive earned every damn thing I have. I've worked full time since I was 17, so 21 years now. Providing for myself and my loved ones isn't an issue.

I'm simply stating there is no way the excessively rich will give up a fraction of their lavish lifestyle to give the working class ANYTHING for free. I honestly feel there would be a civil war before a universal income

Why should the rich give up what they earned? They worked hard for it, and have way more to lose than any employee. The rich are the ones who hold all the risk should anything fail.

How do we decide what a good Umi is? Is it dependent on area? Should someone be able to live in NYC on Umi? Do we reduce payments when they start earning money? Why would anyone work if they had guaranteed comfortable income for life?

 

[dannydarko11]

We can disagree but I'd stand by my point that those in power will do anything to keep that power.

Earthquake and tornado machines?? I never claimed that but there has certainly been research on how to cause such events. I have no doubt there are weapons out there that are unimaginable.

You can't morally wage war on poor people, but when something terrible happens to them... **** it.

Placing "UNIVERSAL" on any government program is theft.
UNIVERSAL "Healthcare"
Where is the moral outrage on theft?

It's no ones job to ensure you have income.
The reason why anyone would push for such a program is to get money you can't make for yourself. Taxing corporations, just to have corporations push that tax onto the consumer by raising goods/services. It's hurting the same people you deem to help.

I'm no whiz on economics but the free market is a place to be cherished. It establishes freedom for a consensual transaction. Don't like the transaction? Don't accept it. What THIS program is, IMO. Is to devalue INDiVIDUAL performance and say **** it. Lets just tax innovation more, to gain a moral strategy against performance. We need MORE ideas and innovation. This program would devalue that. IMO this is a faster way to expand the gap from the rich and the poor.

But, who am I?

 

[DHG1078]

California Democrats haven't even been able to bring universal healthcare to a hearing/vote because it costs too much. Universal healthcare alone was estimated to cost 4x California's entire annual budget.

 

[DHG1078]

Placing "UNIVERSAL" on any government program is theft.
UNIVERSAL "Healthcare"
Where is the moral outrage on theft?

It's no ones job to ensure you have income.
The reason why anyone would push for such a program is to get money you can't make for yourself. Taxing corporations, just to have corporations push that tax onto the consumer by raising goods/services. It's hurting the same people you deem to help.

I'm no whiz on economics but the free market is a place to be cherished. It establishes freedom for a consensual transaction. Don't like the transaction? Don't accept it. What THIS program is, IMO. Is to devalue INDiVIDUAL performance and say **** it. Lets just tax innovation more, to gain a moral strategy against performance. We need MORE ideas and innovation. This program would devalue that. IMO this is a faster way to expand the gap from the rich and the poor.

But, who am I?

Great points.

 

[pwrshft99]

I'm not saying it's something I even support. However it's interesting and I've heard some of the bigger names is tech speak up about it. I also believe theres a European country with such a surplus they started the UBI recently. It's not unrealistic if greed was taken away from the equation.

 

[Screw-Rice]

Plain and simple... The rich would kill the poor before providing them with a free ride. That's simply my opinion.

Your welcome to your own.

I want to know when they're launching Sharknadoes at us, this should be the real point of conversation.

 

[pwrshft99]

I want to know when they're launching Sharknadoes at us, this should be the real point of conversation.

Keep watching the TV, you won't miss it

 

[DHG1078]

I'm not saying it's something I even support. However it's interesting and I've heard some of the bigger names is tech speak up about it. I also believe theres a European country with such a surplus they started the UBI recently. It's not unrealistic if greed was taken away from the equation.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only pilot programs in Europe. Couple thousand people in them. It's pretty easy to come up with extra payments for such a small scale. And it's pretty easy to say these people had a better life when we just handed them extra cash for no reason in a temporary study. These people were probably smart enough to not rely on it for the long term.

It's not so easy to come up with permanent payments for hundreds of millions of people.

 

[DHG1078]

Keep watching the TV, you won't miss it

It's gonna be an alligatorcane.

 

[Screw-Rice]

Keep watching the TV, you won't miss it

Given your experience, how much tinfoil do I need?

It's gonna be an alligatorcane.

Gatorcano vs Sharknado, showdown in the midwest.

 

[kb67]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only pilot programs in Europe. Couple thousand people in them. It's pretty easy to come up with extra payments for such a small scale. And it's pretty easy to say these people had a better life when we just handed them extra cash for no reason in a temporary study. These people were probably smart enough to not rely on it for the long term.

It's not so easy to come up with permanent payments for hundreds of millions of people.

Like many things it all looks good on paper, dudes like Elon Musk talk this s**t up to the masses of like its the answer to our problems that will come from automation and robots taking jobs. I've been at the DMV when the printer stopped working and they couldn't get any cards to print out they were freaking out.Calling Tech support that is 2 hours away and rebooting a pc over and over hoping to fix a missing printer driver. Point is automation and robots do not always work they break down. Skilled people will be needed to work on this stuff.

Now is the time to encourage young folks to start developing those type skills push that instead of hey we will probably just pay you enough to subsist not really be well off. But you get just enough to make it then you can be mad you don't have as much as somebody else. You'd hope folks would see that its a BS pie in the sky plan but its hard to tell these days.

 

[dannydarko11]

"Hard work wins. You get out of life what you put into it. You can’t control the outcome, but you are 100% in control of the effort. And before blaming other people, go to the nearest mirror and ask yourself, ‘what could I have done to change the outcome?’"

- Randolph Elder