Should I get a WOT Box?
- Thread starter RazorGTP
- Start date
chain guide pins they are 6mm in the 13-14 gt500.....8mm in previous years.
Without using the 2-step function, just the no lift shift will I really need the pins, etc? Being here in Canada I really don't want to have to touch the engine. (To re-enforce or hurt anything) Its double-triple the down time and easily twice as expensive than it is for you guys.
The 2 step launch controller is hard on the timing components because there is A LOT of inertia in the timing components when it cuts the ignition at low speed. By low I mean below 3500 rpms etc. The timing chain tensioners must absorb all that energy and part of that system is the pivot pins. It is a rapid hit to. The guys chilling on the 2 step will break quickly.
ALL 2011-2014 GT500s need the pin upgrade before using the 2-step launch control feature. 2007-2010 features the iron block which used pressed in 8mm dowels. The 11-14 pins are 6mm and will break with extended 2-step usage.
The no-lift shift feature is different. It is a complete ignition cut when youre at WOT but it allows the throttle body to stay open. That keeps the engine in boost while you make your shift. You will NOT miss a shift with the No Lift activated. It literally is pure ****ing magic on how it works.
My car has the 1-2 grind. Greatly improved with an MGW2 and Redline D4 ATF. The WOT Box no lift has let me mash a 1-2 upshift flawlessly every time Ive tried on the street. 2-3 and 3-4 are just as effortless. Feels like your shifting a display model at a car show or something. Easiest it will ever get.
Timing wise, its just like youre letting off the gas to make a shift. No abnormal hits to the system like a 2-step launch.
I highly recommend a WOT Box for no lift shift. Ive no plans to use the launch controller until Ive had my long block out, and rebuilt to handle 1500 hp. And thats a long way off.
ALL 2011-2014 GT500s need the pin upgrade before using the 2-step launch control feature. 2007-2010 features the iron block which used pressed in 8mm dowels. The 11-14 pins are 6mm and will break with extended 2-step usage.
The no-lift shift feature is different. It is a complete ignition cut when youre at WOT but it allows the throttle body to stay open. That keeps the engine in boost while you make your shift. You will NOT miss a shift with the No Lift activated. It literally is pure ****ing magic on how it works.
My car has the 1-2 grind. Greatly improved with an MGW2 and Redline D4 ATF. The WOT Box no lift has let me mash a 1-2 upshift flawlessly every time Ive tried on the street. 2-3 and 3-4 are just as effortless. Feels like your shifting a display model at a car show or something. Easiest it will ever get.
Timing wise, its just like youre letting off the gas to make a shift. No abnormal hits to the system like a 2-step launch.
I highly recommend a WOT Box for no lift shift. Ive no plans to use the launch controller until Ive had my long block out, and rebuilt to handle 1500 hp. And thats a long way off.
Thank you very much for these detailed explanations you gave, it is exactly what I was looking for! There we have it, I will use it for just the no lift shift feature until I do the 8mm guide pins. When I ordered the wotbox I also ordered a MGW gen 2 shifter, so maybe I should get the Redline fluid you mentioned?
If I buy a two post lift this fall I think I may drop the engine and do those pins. It is something I should be able to do myself? I am mechanically inclined and have a lot of tools however I have never done any engine work besides small 2 stroke engines.
For installing the WOTbox, I have done a lot of 12v electrical including a nitrous kit with TC window switch, remote openers, heaters etc. car stereos, tons of lighting but I never soldered any let alone main car wiring harnesses. I am meticulous and don't ever want gremlins, any tips?
You should have no issues wiring the box in.
I found and verified all my wires before cutting. Because Im a weirdo, I soldered in wire extensions to all my wires such that, in the even I ever needed to remove the WOT box for any reason I could just cut and splice/solder the necessary wires with ease.
Use rosin core solder and use shrink wrap on every solder joint to keep moisture out. Its critical as these are mainline circuits to the ecu and to the igniter. Wire crimping this job is a serious no no!
Solder the black wire ground eyelet after you crimp it. Even though its going inside the car, its a good idea to shrink tube it as well.
You'll be removing the battery and tray as well as the passenger inner fender liner to run the harness. I actually used a length of heater hose to pass the wires under the battery tray to avoid any potential for chaffing or cutting into the wire harness. I extended that hose all the way to body grommet/seal where it passes from the cabin into the engine bay for harness protection. A generous wrapping of tape keeps the hose to the grommet. A small piece of mind kinda thing in case something happens to come through the fender liner for whatever reason.
Make a jumper wire! The thick Red and Orange wires in the WOT Box harness are your wires from the ECU to the WOT Box and WOT Box to the igniters. The car WILL NOT run without either the WOT Box installed or a jumper wire installed. Ive got my jumper wire in my car at all times just in case.
BTW, pulling the WOT box all but guarantees youre car will never be stolen by being driven away.
I found and verified all my wires before cutting. Because Im a weirdo, I soldered in wire extensions to all my wires such that, in the even I ever needed to remove the WOT box for any reason I could just cut and splice/solder the necessary wires with ease.
Use rosin core solder and use shrink wrap on every solder joint to keep moisture out. Its critical as these are mainline circuits to the ecu and to the igniter. Wire crimping this job is a serious no no!
Solder the black wire ground eyelet after you crimp it. Even though its going inside the car, its a good idea to shrink tube it as well.
You'll be removing the battery and tray as well as the passenger inner fender liner to run the harness. I actually used a length of heater hose to pass the wires under the battery tray to avoid any potential for chaffing or cutting into the wire harness. I extended that hose all the way to body grommet/seal where it passes from the cabin into the engine bay for harness protection. A generous wrapping of tape keeps the hose to the grommet. A small piece of mind kinda thing in case something happens to come through the fender liner for whatever reason.
Make a jumper wire! The thick Red and Orange wires in the WOT Box harness are your wires from the ECU to the WOT Box and WOT Box to the igniters. The car WILL NOT run without either the WOT Box installed or a jumper wire installed. Ive got my jumper wire in my car at all times just in case.
BTW, pulling the WOT box all but guarantees youre car will never be stolen by being driven away.
You should have no issues wiring the box in.
I found and verified all my wires before cutting. Because Im a weirdo, I soldered in wire extensions to all my wires such that, in the even I ever needed to remove the WOT box for any reason I could just cut and splice/solder the necessary wires with ease.
Use rosin core solder and use shrink wrap on every solder joint to keep moisture out. Its critical as these are mainline circuits to the ecu and to the igniter. Wire crimping this job is a serious no no!
Solder the black wire ground eyelet after you crimp it. Even though its going inside the car, its a good idea to shrink tube it as well.
You'll be removing the battery and tray as well as the passenger inner fender liner to run the harness. I actually used a length of heater hose to pass the wires under the battery tray to avoid any potential for chaffing or cutting into the wire harness. I extended that hose all the way to body grommet/seal where it passes from the cabin into the engine bay for harness protection. A generous wrapping of tape keeps the hose to the grommet. A small piece of mind kinda thing in case something happens to come through the fender liner for whatever reason.
Make a jumper wire! The thick Red and Orange wires in the WOT Box harness are your wires from the ECU to the WOT Box and WOT Box to the igniters. The car WILL NOT run without either the WOT Box installed or a jumper wire installed. Ive got my jumper wire in my car at all times just in case.
BTW, pulling the WOT box all but guarantees youre car will never be stolen by being driven away.
Excellent! Thanks for those tips, I will use them, it sounds as if you're as meticulous as me. Lol
Would you be able to answer those other questions in my reply?
Ah, yes the pins. Youll have to Contact James at Cobra Engineering and see if he has made any more production runs of his drill plate (http://www.cobraengineering.net/drill fixture.html). About a month ago when I was researching parts for a timing system upgrade, he told me he was out but was getting ready to make a new batch.
I would NOT recommend attempting this without a drill plate on your own. The pins MUST be 90 degrees to the block face otherwise you'll have issues with component alignment.
The only other way to get the pins installed is to take your whole block to an engine builder who has their own machine shop. They have to set up the block under a drill press to get the holes properly drilled at 90 degrees to the block face and tapped.
I would also seriously consider upgrading the following while you're motor is torn down:
1. Passenger secondary tensioner kit to correct passenger intake timing at high load/RPMs
2. Secondary chains and secondary billet gears (prone to failure if subjected to a lot of abuse esp with high lift cams)
3. Billet crank gear
4. Billet oil pump gears
5. ARP crank pulley bolt and cam gear bolts. Factory are 1 use torque to yield.
I would NOT recommend attempting this without a drill plate on your own. The pins MUST be 90 degrees to the block face otherwise you'll have issues with component alignment.
The only other way to get the pins installed is to take your whole block to an engine builder who has their own machine shop. They have to set up the block under a drill press to get the holes properly drilled at 90 degrees to the block face and tapped.
I would also seriously consider upgrading the following while you're motor is torn down:
1. Passenger secondary tensioner kit to correct passenger intake timing at high load/RPMs
2. Secondary chains and secondary billet gears (prone to failure if subjected to a lot of abuse esp with high lift cams)
3. Billet crank gear
4. Billet oil pump gears
5. ARP crank pulley bolt and cam gear bolts. Factory are 1 use torque to yield.
Man I could watch those vids all day.
Do you have any suspension work done? other than smaller brakes and big/littles?
Our 2 stage suspension doesn't help drag racers as you want the fronts loose and rears stiff. I get a lot of rear bounce on shifts if I leave in normal.
I believe undoing the damper defaults it to stiff, so I have thought of disconnecting the rears to keep them stiff while putting the fronts to loose, but it will probably confuse the system.
-J
Great thanks again for all of this info. I think the hardest part is going to be to find a shop locally that has experience with these mod motors. Being where I'm located in Western Canada I don't think I have many choices on builders.
Maybe give billetproshops.com a call and see what they recommend? I know they are in the east of Canada, but perhaps they know someone in your area. Maybe a built shortblock with the upgraded pins installed might be an easier way to go? Its more cash up front but less overall headache.
If you can get the plate from Cobra Engineering any local engine shop should be able to perform the install. Again, I recommend upgrading the timing components when the car is torn down. Good luck!
If you can get the plate from Cobra Engineering any local engine shop should be able to perform the install. Again, I recommend upgrading the timing components when the car is torn down. Good luck!
Ok great, I have a lot to think about now. I will definitely be upgrading everything you mentioned when It's torn down. What do you think this will withstand power wise being built with everything you listed?
You should have no issues wiring the box in.
I found and verified all my wires before cutting. Because Im a weirdo, I soldered in wire extensions to all my wires such that, in the even I ever needed to remove the WOT box for any reason I could just cut and splice/solder the necessary wires with ease.
Use rosin core solder and use shrink wrap on every solder joint to keep moisture out. Its critical as these are mainline circuits to the ecu and to the igniter. Wire crimping this job is a serious no no!
Solder the black wire ground eyelet after you crimp it. Even though its going inside the car, its a good idea to shrink tube it as well.
You'll be removing the battery and tray as well as the passenger inner fender liner to run the harness. I actually used a length of heater hose to pass the wires under the battery tray to avoid any potential for chaffing or cutting into the wire harness. I extended that hose all the way to body grommet/seal where it passes from the cabin into the engine bay for harness protection. A generous wrapping of tape keeps the hose to the grommet. A small piece of mind kinda thing in case something happens to come through the fender liner for whatever reason.
Make a jumper wire! The thick Red and Orange wires in the WOT Box harness are your wires from the ECU to the WOT Box and WOT Box to the igniters. The car WILL NOT run without either the WOT Box installed or a jumper wire installed. Ive got my jumper wire in my car at all times just in case.
BTW, pulling the WOT box all but guarantees youre car will never be stolen by being driven away.
What is your nls set at? (Timing)
Also have you gotten any backfires of fireballs using it?
I left the timing to auto. I *believe* that means it kills the ignition until you fully release the clutch. In a speed shift its a fraction of a second. Ive found on the street at least that the auto setting sets up the engine speed nicely for the next gear. Im sure on the track its going to be just as effective with auto timing.
Ive gotten a few back fires. One was a monster explosion under an underpass. The car behind me backed waaayyyy the hell off after I let it rip haha.
Oh, thats a good point too. WOT Box no lift shift is best suited for track prepared cars (ie no cats). If using with cats, use it sparingly. The fuel injectors still pump fuel into the cylinders, thus the fire ball when shifting sometimes. No lift shift or 2 step with cats could and likely will melt them down if overdone. Something to think about.
Remember, when youre car is wide open throttle, the presence of oxygen in the exhaust when the ignition is cut shouldnt change fuel trims. At WOT, the car should be in open loop fuel control with the A/F sensors monitoring overall A/F. Once your throttle is out of WOT, the ECU should go back to using the A/Fs for trim control. Since youre not no lift shifting or 2 stepping off WOT, it runs normally.
Ive gotten a few back fires. One was a monster explosion under an underpass. The car behind me backed waaayyyy the hell off after I let it rip haha.
Oh, thats a good point too. WOT Box no lift shift is best suited for track prepared cars (ie no cats). If using with cats, use it sparingly. The fuel injectors still pump fuel into the cylinders, thus the fire ball when shifting sometimes. No lift shift or 2 step with cats could and likely will melt them down if overdone. Something to think about.
Remember, when youre car is wide open throttle, the presence of oxygen in the exhaust when the ignition is cut shouldnt change fuel trims. At WOT, the car should be in open loop fuel control with the A/F sensors monitoring overall A/F. Once your throttle is out of WOT, the ECU should go back to using the A/Fs for trim control. Since youre not no lift shifting or 2 stepping off WOT, it runs normally.
Power limit will still be determined by the strength of the pistons and connecting rods. I believe JDM Engineering has their own 5.8 Piston/Connecting Rod combo kit they use in their 5.8L shortblocks good for 1200hp. I dont think they sell the 5.8 stuff as a kit just yet, but give them a call.
The timing component upgrades will pretty much guarantee you can run the snot out of your car with no lift and 2 step functions of the WOT box. Youll also be able to use a high lift, aggressive camshaft upgrade and not break the 2ndary chains or 2ndary sprockets. The billet oil pump gears are just MANDATORY. *edited by biminiLX*
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^^^^^^noted and fixed. *sorry caps*
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-J
I did my timing components in the garage over the winter one year, you can do it yourself. Just make sure you put all the bolts in separate baggies for the assemblies they came from... there's a lot of them.
When you get to the oil pump gears, get www.maximummotorsports.com/Engine-Support-Beam-2005-2014-Mustang-P1505.aspx so you can drop the k member and oil pan, otherwise it takes a few days to get the one pickup bolt back in...i kept dropping it in the pan due to no room.
I did forget to do the pins...ill need to pull the front cover again some day. Or maybe I'll just get JDMs short block and do it then.
I read accufab used to make the drill alignment plate as well.
When you get to the oil pump gears, get www.maximummotorsports.com/Engine-Support-Beam-2005-2014-Mustang-P1505.aspx so you can drop the k member and oil pan, otherwise it takes a few days to get the one pickup bolt back in...i kept dropping it in the pan due to no room.
I did forget to do the pins...ill need to pull the front cover again some day. Or maybe I'll just get JDMs short block and do it then.
I read accufab used to make the drill alignment plate as well.
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