So we took a GTO to the track - vid

[SinisterX]

Originally posted by Rearpl8tsinsite
Who else has taken the push rod engine similar in size to these levels? Sure the big blocks can do it. Chevy chose that route and has done ok power-wise is my point. They have refined it over and over but it is still the essentially the same technology less carburization. 10 years of development for the 4.6 have gained it over 100 hp (94 gt 215 hp vs 01 Cobra 320). You act as if I'm putting these stats down. The Z06 engine at 405 n/a is impressive for old technology. I think the 340/350 hp (cant remember) Firehawks are also impressive. My old 93 LT-1 with 275 hp was impressive when the cobra of that year had what 240 hp.

Bottom line is you guys are right I and many other Chevy fans would like them to jump into the 2000's like I stated above. We don't make the decisions though. Eventually the old push rod tech is going to run out of steam but I'm still hanging with 03 gt's, 99/01 Cobras with minimal mods. For Ford to keep moving forward Chevy and the other comp has to also.

I'm simply pro V8 whatever the brand name is. I've just always owned Chevys. :thumbsup:

Your missing some good point's, your right they have taken the OHV engine pretty far.
But w/ 40+yrs. of practice the progression GM has made really is'nt crap.
No one debated GM can't make a decent OHV engine, we simply said there progression w/ technology has been minimal.

The whole argument from the beginning was Ford can compete w/ the rest of the auto industry with smaller engine displacement b/c of technology.

My opinion is, If Ford made 2 GT's w/ the same performance, but one with a 4.6 SOHC and a 5,4L SOHC I would pick the 5.4.
If Ford made 2 equal performing GT's BUT one w/ a 351 OHV and one w/ a 4.6L SOHC I would pick the 4.6L

Im a fan of displacement, but a bigger fan of technology.

Im leaving to go to work, be back Friday
Later
:thumbsup:

 

[youngone]

MRBONUS i'm not here to call anybody names, i think that when people start calling names it's because they have no argument or they are just assholes. I just wish they left the GTO dead, because they just ruined it. All the old models should be left dead. When they bring them back they are just plain ol ugly.

 

[Copperhead]

The 1990 ZR-1's engine was the LT5 if I'm not mistaken. It was built by Mercury Marine (I don't remember Lotus being involved, but I could be wrong). That was an awesome car for its day.

 

[Sinister04L]

Originally posted by BEATNGU
Your missing some good point's, your right they have taken the OHV engine pretty far.
But w/ 40+yrs. of practice the progression GM has made really is'nt crap.
No one debated GM can't make a decent OHV engine, we simply said there progression w/ technology has been minimal.

The whole argument from the beginning was Ford can compete w/ the rest of the auto industry with smaller engine displacement b/c of technology.

My opinion is, If Ford made 2 GT's w/ the same performance, but one with a 4.6 SOHC and a 5,4L SOHC I would pick the 5.4.
If Ford made 2 equal performing GT's BUT one w/ a 351 OHV and one w/ a 4.6L SOHC I would pick the 4.6L

Im a fan of displacement, but a bigger fan of technology.

Im leaving to go to work, be back Friday


Later
:thumbsup:

You're kidding right? GM has a tremendous engine with the LS1 series. It makes incredible power, and is very efficient. 405hp for the 02+ LS6, now 400hp for the base C6, with comparable torque, and still knocks down nearly 30mpg on the highway? That's incredible. What does the 03 Cobra get for mileage? Oh that's right, you have to pay a gas guzzler tax because it sucks so bad. I don't want to hear the "who cares what kind of gas mileage it gets" argument either. While I personally don't care about gas mileage, we're talking about "technology" here. Just because pushrods have been around for a long time, doesn't mean it can't be technologically advanced, and just because the OHC design is newer being more utilized now, doesn't mean it's superior either. Give me a break.

The 03 Cobra wouldn't be making any waves at all if it weren't supercharged. Is the motor more technologically advanced than it's brethren, the DOHC motor from 96? Not much. Just because it has forged internals now and can support boost doesn't mean it's "advanced." You can put a strong shortblock in ANY car to support boost, that doesn't mean it's technology is better, that's a RIDICULOUS assumption that I've seen over and over.

Kudos to Ford for making the 03 Cobra. Kudos to Ford for having the balls to make a motor that can handle boost, and provide an awesome bang for the buck for the consumer. But to say it's so technologically advanced is IMO, retarded.

 

[rezcobra]

Apparently the LT5 Vette engine was designed by Lotus using the GM 350 engine configurations. It is a DOHC design putting out 375 hp. It was manufactered and assembled by Mercury Marine. The 32 valve engine was all alloy.

 

[HISSMAN]

How come if you would take a Pushrod 5.7 liter from GM, and a 5.8 liter DOHC Ford, both being NA, and both adhearing to current EPA, and DOT laws, the OHC would put out more power hands down. And who cares about Gas milage. That is the stupidist thing someone can care about when you want muscle. If you want gasmilage and power get an EVO and mod away. You make me sick. No replacement For displacement. That is one of the most Mullet wearing redneck stuck in the 80's things I have ever heard. I have a lawnmower engine that has the capabilities of making about 120 hp. :burn:

 

[HISSMAN]

04 GTO Dyno sheet. Got this from LS1.com. It is a 6 speed, so don't give me any of that Autos have a lower output crap.

 

[youngone]

Is that a stock?

 

[HISSMAN]

Originally posted by youngone
Is that a stock?

Yeap, but considering it is supposed to have more power and torque than the previouse LS1 that was in the Camaro and T/a, I figured that it would have at least 25-30 more hp to the rear than that, if not more. And the torque (Edit: Horsepower) curve is less than desirable. Hell it is almost completely verticle. By the time you peak in these low reving motors you either are about to shift, or already have.

 

[jonas]

Originally posted by Hissman
How come if you would take a Pushrod 5.7 liter from GM, and a 5.8 liter DOHC Ford, both being NA, and both adhearing to current EPA, and DOT laws, the OHC would put out more power hands down. And who cares about Gas milage. That is the stupidist thing someone can care about when you want muscle. If you want gasmilage and power get an EVO and mod away. You make me sick. No replacement For displacement. That is one of the most Mullet wearing redneck stuck in the 80's things I have ever heard. I have a lawnmower engine that has the capabilities of making about 120 hp. :burn:

not true.

Ive heard of a 5.0 block dohc mustang putting out 375 NA!


dohc heads flow more than ohv heads and they rev much much much higher

 

[HISSMAN]

Originally posted by jonas
not true.

Ive heard of a 5.0 block dohc mustang putting out 375 NA!


dohc heads flow more than ohv heads and they rev much much much higher

That is what I am saying, the OHC would put out more. It is true. I think that you thought I said the OHV would win...this is not true.

 

[youngone]

Wow thats sad, why would gm axe the camaro and t/a for that piece?

 

[jonas]

Originally posted by Hissman
That is what I am saying, the OHC would put out more. It is true. I think that you thought I said the OHV would win...this is not true.

dude im sorry, I thought you said ohv.

the 4.6 cobra motors make up power by having a larger rpm band. most built cammers shift at 7500 rpm with cams

 

[Sinister04L]

Originally posted by Hissman
Yeap, but considering it is supposed to have more power and torque than the previouse LS1 that was in the Camaro and T/a, I figured that it would have at least 25-30 more hp to the rear than that, if not more. And the torque curve is less than desirable. Hell it is almost completely verticle. By the time you peak in these low reving motors you either are about to shift, or already have.

What graph are you looking at? That torque curve is relatively flat.

 

[entix]

i think you confused the torque and hp curves. thats quite a desirable torque curve if you ask me. very nice powerband. now to put it in a lighter car..

 

[SinisterX]

Originally posted by 03CobraHopeful
You're kidding right? GM has a tremendous engine with the LS1 series. It makes incredible power, and is very efficient. 405hp for the 02+ LS6, now 400hp for the base C6, with comparable torque, and still knocks down nearly 30mpg on the highway? That's incredible. What does the 03 Cobra get for mileage? Oh that's right, you have to pay a gas guzzler tax because it sucks so bad. I don't want to hear the "who cares what kind of gas mileage it gets" argument either. While I personally don't care about gas mileage, we're talking about "technology" here. Just because pushrods have been around for a long time, doesn't mean it can't be technologically advanced, and just because the OHC design is newer being more utilized now, doesn't mean it's superior either. Give me a break.

The 03 Cobra wouldn't be making any waves at all if it weren't supercharged. Is the motor more technologically advanced than it's brethren, the DOHC motor from 96? Not much. Just because it has forged internals now and can support boost doesn't mean it's "advanced." You can put a strong shortblock in ANY car to support boost, that doesn't mean it's technology is better, that's a RIDICULOUS assumption that I've seen over and over.

Kudos to Ford for making the 03 Cobra. Kudos to Ford for having the balls to make a motor that can handle boost, and provide an awesome bang for the buck for the consumer. But to say it's so technologically advanced is IMO, retarded.

I had to come back for this one. Are you frickin kidding me. With 40 yrs. of TRYING to make something better. I should hope you can make an improvement.
GM had a 5.7L with 405hp, NOW they need a 6.0L to get 400 Now you tell me, is that a step forward or backward?

GAS MILEAGE, the TA and Camaro have a BW tranny that allows OD to run at 1350 rpms at 55.
I dont know about you, but 99% of the pepole he I bet have not came back from a days ride and said "WOW honey, my car got 22 mpg today, Im so happy I bought it."
My friends Z06 sucks way more fuel than my Cobra does, and the car is lighter. I have yet to hear in person a a LS1/6 getting 30 mpg. Who the hell drives at 55 mph for 30 miles anyway?
GM is old.

Ill be back Friday

 

[Stewart]

Originally posted by JAIME'S COBRA
THAT WAS A BIG SHOT OF NOS TO BE RUNNING IN THE 11

Why do you say that?

 

[Rearpl8tsinsite]

Originally posted by Hissman
Yeap, but considering it is supposed to have more power and torque than the previouse LS1 that was in the Camaro and T/a, I figured that it would have at least 25-30 more hp to the rear than that, if not more. And the torque curve is less than desirable. Hell it is almost completely verticle. By the time you peak in these low reving motors you either are about to shift, or already have.

This is a rediculous statement. According to the graph the car hits max hp at 1700 rpm. A torque curve like that is more desireable for traction. The 03 Cobra is the one that should be more verticle thus having more traction problems. And 360 hp is what that comes out to if you minus 15% drivetrain loss. The previous LS1 had 350 hp do the math. Remember its not supercharged.

 

[Rearpl8tsinsite]

Originally posted by BEATNGU
I had to come back for this one. Are you frickin kidding me. With 40 yrs. of TRYING to make something better. I should hope you can make an improvement.
GM had a 5.7L with 405hp, NOW they need a 6.0L to get 400 Now you tell me, is that a step forward or backward?

GAS MILEAGE, the TA and Camaro have a BW tranny that allows OD to run at 1350 rpms at 55.
I dont know about you, but 99% of the pepole he I bet have not came back from a days ride and said "WOW honey, my car got 22 mpg today, Im so happy I bought it."
My friends Z06 sucks way more fuel than my Cobra does, and the car is lighter. I have yet to hear in person a a LS1/6 getting 30 mpg. Who the hell drives at 55 mph for 30 miles anyway?
GM is old.

Ill be back Friday

Maybe the 5.7 liter was hitting its peak. This would be the reason for going to the 6.0 liter. With your logic Ford going from 225 hp 5.0 to a 4.6 with 215 was taking a step backwards. Now look at what they have done with it. 320 hp! Is it possible that the 400 hp 6.0 liter is like the origional 5.7 liter ls-1 with 305 only to be made into something with 55 more hp (360 hp GTO). The 400 may be a starting point for a future 500 hp. I don't think Ford can go much further with the 4.6. Eventually they are going to need to up the ani rather than fold with the S/C. Displacment is their ace in the hole but apparently only Chevy knows of this fact.

 

[NeedaCobra]

you can get over 360rwhp out of a stock bottom end 302 :shrug: