http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4672279#post4672279
Here is a link to a thread I started on LS1.com. Lets see what the experts say.
Here is a link to a thread I started on LS1.com. Lets see what the experts say.
So we took a GTO to the track - vid
- Thread starter super-roo
- Start date
Uh, hey jackass. Like I said, why don't you READ MY POST before you stick your foot in your mouth? If you had paid any attention, you would have seen that I said the car made 384/379 with what we had, and it was CAPABLE of making 420 with the other things. And who said the ONLY mod was a cam? I said it was a "cam only" car as in: STOCK HEADS. You're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed are you?
Well you should have been more specific
I'm not the one who is a tool. Hey, give me some facts to work with. I am even going straight to the horses mouth to try and get facts on the matter. And if I am wrong then sorry, but I need facts. What mods had you done to get the car to get it to 384/379. little help. Hey if you can defenatively prove me wrong then great, but there is no need for namecalling.
I'm sorry for the name calling, but maybe you should have asked me for more facts before you went to a shit site like LS1.com to ask them if what I was saying is feasible? I dunno. I apologize either way.
The car had a Whisper Lid, hand ported MAF, TR224 cam, FLP longtubes, and Mufflex exhaust. It had a lot of other mods (suspension, rearend, etc.) but nothing for hp. Maybe it was a factory freak, I dunno. All I know is what we had in it and what it put down. I think we could have easily made it to 420 with a little bigger cam, a throttle body, an LS6 intake, and a good dynotune. Who knows what kind of power it would have made with a good set of heads on it?
My whole point is, yes the OHC motors are nice, and make power, but to say that OHV motors are crap because they're older and use older technology is crazy. Most people just don't know the potential of the LS series of motors GM has.
EEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW WTF IS THAT
Oh thats a GTO. My bad
Oh thats a GTO. My bad
Ok, just to be clear. I never said that OHV motors are crap. I said that everyone keeps comparing 4.6L engines to LS1's, why not compare the 5.4 DOHC to the LS1 (not LS6s)? I thought that was a better comparrson.
What I was pointing out is that the 5.4L DOHC's make more power than LS1's (stock for stock) and that even the h/c LS1's (aka LS6's) make barely more HP than the 5.4. (IMO, 405 is barely more than 385).
My point is this...Ultimately, enough experiance will be had with the DOHC's to figure out better cams and heads...and then the 5.4 should be even stronger, considering how close it is now to the H/C LS1 (aka LS6) with so little research having been done.
It is elementary...DOHC is theoretically more efficient than Pushrod motors because there is less parasitic loss due to less mass (no pushrods). It also allows for more variables to be applied to the cams. Now, in practice, right now, it may not be more efficient because we (and I mean the "Royal" we) haven't got all the damn bugs worked out yet.
That doesn't mean Chevys are crap (they are...but not because of the motors, just the headliners, hump, ergonomics, etc.)
It does mean that GM needs to start developing DOHCs, Hydroelectrics, widgets, planknars, or something else entirely...because they are reaching the limit of the OHV design...unless they want to start dropping 454's in everything, or warrantying Nitrous from the factory.
If pushrods were the way to go, they would be in Formula 1s and IRL. I know they are still the choice of Top Fuel, but does anyone want to bet that will never change?
What I was pointing out is that the 5.4L DOHC's make more power than LS1's (stock for stock) and that even the h/c LS1's (aka LS6's) make barely more HP than the 5.4. (IMO, 405 is barely more than 385).
My point is this...Ultimately, enough experiance will be had with the DOHC's to figure out better cams and heads...and then the 5.4 should be even stronger, considering how close it is now to the H/C LS1 (aka LS6) with so little research having been done.
It is elementary...DOHC is theoretically more efficient than Pushrod motors because there is less parasitic loss due to less mass (no pushrods). It also allows for more variables to be applied to the cams. Now, in practice, right now, it may not be more efficient because we (and I mean the "Royal" we) haven't got all the damn bugs worked out yet.
That doesn't mean Chevys are crap (they are...but not because of the motors, just the headliners, hump, ergonomics, etc.)
It does mean that GM needs to start developing DOHCs, Hydroelectrics, widgets, planknars, or something else entirely...because they are reaching the limit of the OHV design...unless they want to start dropping 454's in everything, or warrantying Nitrous from the factory.
If pushrods were the way to go, they would be in Formula 1s and IRL. I know they are still the choice of Top Fuel, but does anyone want to bet that will never change?
It looks like a Saturn.
I never said that you specifically said OHV engines were crap, I just meant people in general.
You call the LS6 a H/C LS1, which is true to a point I suppose, but when I think of H/C LS1, I'm thinking of ported heads and a larger aftermarket cam. There's a big difference between the two.
I don't think that GM is reaching the limits of the OHV design. There is a lot of technology left on the table for sure. What if they put big blocks in their sports cars from now on? Would it be any different than Ford slapping a s/c on the 4.6? What if GM tossed in a shortblock, lowered the CR, and slapped a s/c on it too? It wouldn't be suddenly more technically advanced, but it would sure make a lot of power.
I personally don't see Top Fuelers using OHC motors anytime soon. What are the racers using in NMRA, FFW, etc? A vast majority of them are using OHV motors, not OHC motors. There are a few guys having some success with OHC motors, but generally get destroyed by OHV motors.
Last edited:
I don't think that the big block theory will hold true. The sheer economics of it will make it to where those engines appear only in super expensive cars. And boy...do they like to drink deeply of the fuel. I just don't think they will be practical. Hell, just to get the electronics and smog control shit on them, the underhood of the car would have to be 10 feet across...you saw how they were crammed into the 454 SS pickups 10 years ago!
I love big blocks, I've got a 68 camaro with a 454 done .60 over in the driveway! But I've also got a Supercharged 4.6DOHC that makes as much HP and Tq, gets much better gas mileage, is lighter, and is much more streetable.
You're right, Ford slapped a blower on it, but that is only because they don't yet have the "know how" on the engines to do it a different way. Eventually, the "know-how" will be had.
And I do think the day will come when drag cars start switching over to DOHC. It will be a while, but they will see the benefits one day.
If there was no benefit to getting away from pushrods, why would the F1s and IRL guys do it? Of course, they got away from cams altoghethor.
I love big blocks, I've got a 68 camaro with a 454 done .60 over in the driveway! But I've also got a Supercharged 4.6DOHC that makes as much HP and Tq, gets much better gas mileage, is lighter, and is much more streetable.
You're right, Ford slapped a blower on it, but that is only because they don't yet have the "know how" on the engines to do it a different way. Eventually, the "know-how" will be had.
And I do think the day will come when drag cars start switching over to DOHC. It will be a while, but they will see the benefits one day.
If there was no benefit to getting away from pushrods, why would the F1s and IRL guys do it? Of course, they got away from cams altoghethor.
I am personally mad at NASCAR. I think that all cars should be able to be bought from a showroom. It would limit speeds, and makec for closer racing. Anyway, Toyota is running a motor they don't even put in a Tundra, let alone any other car. If NASCAR involved real cars and OHC engines, we'd benefit from the technology, and NASCAR might turn into something interesting. Sorry about the off topic, but then we could really see whose engine is king.
Users who are viewing this thread
