Why would you want to peak out in HP @ 1700 RPM. My car never sees 1700 rpm @ the track. As for why I am disapointed in the RWHP..I have seen Stock Camaros put down close to 320 @ the wheels, and they are lacking about a 15-20 hp rating than the GTO. Oh yeah, the GTO has 350 hp, and about 365 Tq. At least that is what GM says. My Father-in-laws Ws6 TA is rated @ about 325 @ the Crank..wich is as we know underrated, but Come on, the GTO is boasting 350, and is only coming up with around 305-306 @ the wheels.
So we took a GTO to the track - vid
- Thread starter super-roo
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Why would you want to peak out in HP @ 1700 RPM. My car never sees 1700 rpm @ the track. As for why I am disapointed in the RWHP..I have seen Stock Camaros put down close to 320 @ the wheels, and they are lacking about a 15-20 hp rating than the GTO. Oh yeah, the GTO has 350 hp, and about 365 Tq. At least that is what GM says. My Father-in-laws Ws6 TA is rated @ about 325 @ the Crank..wich is as we know underrated, but Come on, the GTO is boasting 350, and is only coming up with around 305-306 @ the wheels.
Man...this is awesome...like 10 different threads of arguments in one!
This is like a Seinfeld Episode!
One thing on technology v displacement. Everyone seems to be leaving out the 5.4L DOHC Ford engine out of the 00R. Less Displacement than the LS1, and more power. It is NA. H/C LS1's put out barely more power than the 5.4, and who knows what an H/C 5.4 DOHC would do.
And remember F1 and IRL. Shit, they put out 14000 HP out of juice can sized cylinders (ok, that may be an exaggeration) but you see what I mean. They are tiny, and make monster power.
The aftermarket head and cam community hasn't caught up with the DOHC's yet.
I hear they will in about 2 Weeks
This is like a Seinfeld Episode!
One thing on technology v displacement. Everyone seems to be leaving out the 5.4L DOHC Ford engine out of the 00R. Less Displacement than the LS1, and more power. It is NA. H/C LS1's put out barely more power than the 5.4, and who knows what an H/C 5.4 DOHC would do.
And remember F1 and IRL. Shit, they put out 14000 HP out of juice can sized cylinders (ok, that may be an exaggeration) but you see what I mean. They are tiny, and make monster power.
The aftermarket head and cam community hasn't caught up with the DOHC's yet.
I hear they will in about 2 Weeks
Originally posted by Copperhead
Man...this is awesome...like 10 different threads of arguments in one!
This is like a Seinfeld Episode!
One thing on technology v displacement. Everyone seems to be leaving out the 5.4L DOHC Ford engine out of the 00R. Less Displacement than the LS1, and more power. It is NA. H/C LS1's put out barely more power than the 5.4, and who knows what an H/C 5.4 DOHC would do.
And remember F1 and IRL. Shit, they put out 14000 HP out of juice can sized cylinders (ok, that may be an exaggeration) but you see what I mean. They are tiny, and make monster power.
The aftermarket head and cam community hasn't caught up with the DOHC's yet.
I hear they will in about 2 Weeks
Didn't the 00R put out 385hp? And the 02+ LS6 puts out 405hp? Just wondering.
H/C LS1's put out barely more than a n/a stock 5.4? You're kidding me right? I've seen cam only LS1's put out 420rwhp. I've also seen H/C LS1's putting out 470rwhp. WAY out of stock 5.4 league.
BS Cam only LS1 Putting out 420. If someone told you that is all that they did to get 420 they were lieing to you. The LS6 is basicly a h/C LS1/ that is why it does put out what it does in the ZO6. So lets change cams and heads to allow more flow on the 5.4 DOHC and see what happens. I would figure it would be in the neighborehood of about 440hp. Or by your figures of what a H/C LS1 does ..it would be more like 510hp.
Hey Hissman, Heres what your LS6 with a H/C can do.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132972
Try 501 at the wheels in a ZO6.
Stu
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132972
Try 501 at the wheels in a ZO6.
Stu
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Yes nice numbers but isnt he talking about ls1's not ls6's?:shrug:
I am talking about an LS1. He said that with a cam only someone got 420 out of a stock LS1. The stock heads can't move enough air to make that kind of power...On pump gas at least, and not without any other mods to help it breathe better.
His quote, not mine.
I can smell sarcasm and thats what this was.
I dont think most people realize what a properly setup Chevy motor can accomplish. You are correct about a LS6 tho. It is nothing more than a H/C LS1.
I dont think most people realize what a properly setup Chevy motor can accomplish. You are correct about a LS6 tho. It is nothing more than a H/C LS1.
Thank you. But I don't think that people really have any clue what a properly setup 4.6 DOHC can do either. Take for instance year to year. My 98 Cobra is rated @ 305 hp, and an 98 LS1 Camaro was making 315, and I think the SS was making 325. Considering the 69 ci of difference, That is a pritty close number. I am now making somewhere between 335 and 340 @ the Flywheel now, anmd that is just with a few bolton's. Now take for example a motor that is closer in CI's the 5.4 DOHC and look at the unmodified 385 HP it is throwing out. And it is still less CI's than the 5.7 liter.
I suggest you get your facts straight before you shoot off at the mouth. He said that a h/c LS1 and a n/a 5.4 are comparable, which they are NOT. YES, a cam only LS1 is capable of putting out 420rwhp. Is it the norm? No, you have to have the right setup. My ex-fiancee's 98 T/A put down 384/379 UNTUNED with a small cam, NO headwork, and the stock LS1 intake (02 LS1's got the LS6 intake which make even more power). I know with a good tune, and a little bigger cam we could have hit at or near 420 easily. Toss in the LS6 intake and it's a no doubter.
H/C LS1's have put down as much as 470+rwhp (LG G5X2 cam and heads). This is fact. I never said that a modified 5.4 couldn't put down a lot of power, I'm simply disputing his statement that a H/C LS1 is comparable to a stock n/a 5.4.
Again I will say that IMO, people that assume OHV motors aren't as good as OHC motors just because they've been around longer are narrowminded and retarded.
I'm sorry...is 385 and 405 not comparable? A 5% difference in HP between an h/c 5.7 and a stock 5.4? That is not comparable? With no aftermarket to speak of for the 5.4, and a 20 hp difference is not comparable?
Stunning. I realize what lengths people go to for 20hp...but c'mon guys, that is pretty close. The Stock LS1 certainly makes less power than the stock 5.4 doesn't it?
Stunning. I realize what lengths people go to for 20hp...but c'mon guys, that is pretty close. The Stock LS1 certainly makes less power than the stock 5.4 doesn't it?
I hate to be the one capatalizing on this, but it's got a really small trunk. I don't think I could even fit a dozen Hot Dogs in there.
Up until last year all I worked on was GM vehicles. Here is a fact you may want to know about before you spout your mouth off. The LS6 Intake only adds at the most 5-7 hp. It alone is not the only reason that the 02 LS1 camaros and Ta's are putting out a wopping 10 more hp over the previouse years. I am using the WS6 as an example 315 in 01, and 325 in 02 wooooo. I Have seen some pritty drastic cam jobs on a stock ls1, and they never got to 420hp and were able to idle. That is a cam that is adding nearly 100hp. Also you are trying to say that a stock 5.4 DOHC and a Cammed LS1 are almost equal...WTF..Ok what happens when we cam a 5.4 liter? I will tell you. They did one at a local shop here, and though it wasn't a Cobra R 5.4 liter, on the engine dyno it put out 376.3 Hp, and after the cam job it put out 436.8 untuned. After they tuned it and Ported and polished the heads it put out 467hp and 492tq. Now that is more equal to your cammed LS1. If you get to cam yours we get to cam ours. Otherwise leave em stock to stock.
i got this off of ls1.com. If your x's car made 420 with just a cam it's a freak
400 RWHP is reachable with stock heads, however, you have to be able to sacrifice a few things to get there.
1. First, it really helps if you have an M6, which you do, so thats good for you.
2. Second, you will need a very large cam, which will have questionable road manners, and will REQUIRE tuning.
3. You will also want to free up as much of your exhaust as possible, including headers, and no cats, which will absolutely kill your chances of ever passing an emissions test if you live in an area that requires it.
4. You will also need to get every single bolton, plus a dynotune to get you there. You'll discover that once you've done all this just to get over the 400 RWHP mark, you will have a very loud car with inconsistent manners, and will have spent almost as much as a mild cam with heads would have cost to get to the same spot.
The reason I keep saying questionable and inconsistent manners is because some people will claim that their car drives fine with these huge ass cams, and frankly, everyone's defition of what "driving fine" is, is different. Fact is, with the size cam you will need to get 400 RWHP with stock heads, the engine will shudder, surge, and depending on the weather conditions, be more picky of how it wants to idle or start.
I have always been a fan of doing things right the first time, rather than compensating for not buying ported heads, by putting in a ridculously large cam.
Get yourself a nice medium/large cam somewhere in the 224/230 range, get a set of Patriot or Absolute Speed heads, the common boltons, and with your M6, you will easily hit 420 RWHP and your car will behave a lot better. Put a 100 or 125 shot on there, and you'll hit 550 RWHP no problem.
400 RWHP is reachable with stock heads, however, you have to be able to sacrifice a few things to get there.
1. First, it really helps if you have an M6, which you do, so thats good for you.
2. Second, you will need a very large cam, which will have questionable road manners, and will REQUIRE tuning.
3. You will also want to free up as much of your exhaust as possible, including headers, and no cats, which will absolutely kill your chances of ever passing an emissions test if you live in an area that requires it.
4. You will also need to get every single bolton, plus a dynotune to get you there. You'll discover that once you've done all this just to get over the 400 RWHP mark, you will have a very loud car with inconsistent manners, and will have spent almost as much as a mild cam with heads would have cost to get to the same spot.
The reason I keep saying questionable and inconsistent manners is because some people will claim that their car drives fine with these huge ass cams, and frankly, everyone's defition of what "driving fine" is, is different. Fact is, with the size cam you will need to get 400 RWHP with stock heads, the engine will shudder, surge, and depending on the weather conditions, be more picky of how it wants to idle or start.
I have always been a fan of doing things right the first time, rather than compensating for not buying ported heads, by putting in a ridculously large cam.
Get yourself a nice medium/large cam somewhere in the 224/230 range, get a set of Patriot or Absolute Speed heads, the common boltons, and with your M6, you will easily hit 420 RWHP and your car will behave a lot better. Put a 100 or 125 shot on there, and you'll hit 550 RWHP no problem.
I love how you guys pick and choose the things from my posts you want to read. Did I say the 5.4 won't make good power with mods? No. Someone said the stock n/a 5.4 is comparable to a H/C LS1, and it's not. Period. When you show me a stock 5.4 that can make 470rwhp, let me know.
Who said anything about road manners? I don't believe that was part of the conversation. Of course the more radical you go with the setup, the worse it's road manners are going to be. It all depends on what you're willing to live with. What I may consider "fine" someone may balk at. FWIW, our 98 idled fine, and was driven 150 miles daily UNTUNED.
LOL@making an argument out of the LS1 vs LS6 intake. Are you serious? I was just throwing that in there as an extra point, I certainly wasn't basing my argument on it. I simply said that it would make even more power with the LS6 intake. BTW, on stock motors it's probably only good for 5-7rwhp, on modified motors (ie. H/C) it can be worth up to an extra 20rwhp.
Who said anything about road manners? I don't believe that was part of the conversation. Of course the more radical you go with the setup, the worse it's road manners are going to be. It all depends on what you're willing to live with. What I may consider "fine" someone may balk at. FWIW, our 98 idled fine, and was driven 150 miles daily UNTUNED.
LOL@making an argument out of the LS1 vs LS6 intake. Are you serious? I was just throwing that in there as an extra point, I certainly wasn't basing my argument on it. I simply said that it would make even more power with the LS6 intake. BTW, on stock motors it's probably only good for 5-7rwhp, on modified motors (ie. H/C) it can be worth up to an extra 20rwhp.
I didnt pick and choose, infact i was impressed when you said 420 with just a cam, so i went and did a search on ls1.com for cam only rwhp.
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