Solid shifter bushing review

[lkempf]

I just changed out the factory rubber bushings for the solid ones on the stock shifter and changed to Amsoil transmission fluid to try and eliminate the 2nd gear grind. The install was very frustrating, but doable. My review on the install is on the "Alternate to Aftermarket Shifter" thread.

The shifter does seem to be a little lass sloppy now, but does not completely eliminate the "grind". I just did a auto-X, drag-race, and road course event this weekend. Out of 7 runs on the drag strip it only had 1 second gear grind issue. It did do it 1 other time on the road course. Before it would do it about 50% of the time on the dragstrip. So my personal results are that it may have helped, but did not completely take care of the problem.

This is by far the most annoying thing about this car. It should have been taken care of by Ford. They can brag all they want on horsepower numbers, but if you can't transfer it through the drivetrain correctly, what is the point. I know a lot of people will disagree with me but i wish they offered an automatic transmission.

All in all if I was thinking about doing this mod I would just replace the whole shifter unit with an aftermarket one. It would have been a lot easier to do.

 

[NightRide]

I wish they would come out with an auto as well, only improvement that would have me considering a trade in. I've never had the 2nd gear grind but 3rd can be notchy sometimes. I've done everything including the mgw shifter and it still leaves a little play in it.

 

[Tob]

The MGW is a nice piece. Beautiful machine work. But George at MGW isn't going as far as to run a solid bushing up front. He'd hear the same thing from some that had trouble with the install having to be done in some tight quarters. So he takes the slop out of the mechanism and replaces it with precision machined innards and stiffens up the bushings a bit. But not as hardcore as a solid. Normally you can't get away with that but it happens to work here, albeit with what can be a tricky install.

Taking the slop out of the mechanism isn't easy, I readily admit that. But you got it done and if you did it again I'd bet you'd be able to do it faster.

I've done everything including the mgw shifter and it still leaves a little play in it.

I've spent some time dimensioning, sketching, and rendering a shifter stub and fulcrum that would tighten up the factory shifter architecture even more. The arms aren't the issue (contrary to the intarweb). With solid front bushings and high durometer KR rear bushing, the remaining weakness lies in the factory stub and plastic fulcrum. But that can be removed from the stock piece and replaced with a spherical bearing. Here's a stub that can be rotated 90* (so that it would fit either a '07-'09 or a '10-'14) and that utilizes the KR ratio...

The stub/bearing are restrained by a machined cup that bolts in place of the plastic piece that was originally riveted. A view from behind...

External snap ring retains the high misalignment bearing...

Internal snap ring underneath. Bottom stub fitting utilizes oil lubricated bronze bushings, similar to OE but thicker...

 

[masterman]

^^^ HUBBA HUBBA!!! That is a beauty right there! Would the factory rubber upper and lower boots be reused with the new machined cup?

OP sounds like a good choice to save some money, but not to completely eliminate the grind. Not to mention being a PITA with the tight space.

 

[Tob]

Would the factory rubber upper and lower boots be reused with the new machined cup?

I designed the bearing cup (in red) so that the factory rubber boot would slip over it the same way it does over the factory steel cup. The lower boot fits in place as it does on the factory stick. I had yet to render the boots when I sketched these but the dimensions I used were with the understanding that the boots would be kept. The factory boots are very well done and they'll act to keep debris out of the joint.

 

[masterman]

The factory boots are very well done and they'll act to keep debris out of the joint.

To my observation, the bottom boot is also somewhat stiff so it offers some tension to recenter the lever. I'm not sure how much (if any) the top boot helps, but the bottom seems to help a fair amount. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tob]

Your observations are indeed an accurate representation. I've noticed the same thing. And while the boots redirect the shifter stub back on center with the unit out of the car, the transmission forces the mechanism back to a neutral state while in the car. Both top and rubber boots do an excellent job of keeping debris/moisture from entering the fulcrum area, something a spherical can take advantage of just as the factory portion does on the stock unit.

 

[MGW]

Guys,

Just bear with me for about 3-4 more weeks and you will be astonished at what our new GT500 shifter is all about...I basically scrapped the entire OEM linakge rod design and built a "top loader" design from the ground up. It's the only way to make this car shift right.

Not only does the captured center shaft remove all the " in gear play" but it actually works as a THIRD brace for the shifter mechanism. Anybody that attended Mustang week can attest that this thing felt like it was absolutely integral to the trans.

Here is a pic of one of the first production pieces ...I made a few design changes that really only aid in installation but it is in production now and we will be shipping the first run first of September.

Regards
George @ MGW

 

[MGW]

And in regards to the support arm solid bushings... we still use a rubber inner core for great vibration dampening but i have sleeved them with stainless steel end caps so now you get the best of both worlds!!

also the side side travel has been reduced by 50 percent!!!

 

[lilredcoupe]

George-

I am very interested as I think a lot of GT500 owners are to see if this will actually cure the dreaded 1-2 shift. I had my tranny updated by Ford and also had them replace the stock shifter with the MGW unit. They filled the tranny with Amsoil ATF and much to my dismay the 1-2 grind and lockout is still present under hard acceleration and at higher rpms (5500-6200). The shifter made a huge difference in feel and may have helped a little but didn't completely solve the issue. I have no problems under normal driving conditions, only when trying to speed shift. I later installed the CHE brace with torque limiters and it seemed to help also but I still can't completely speed or power shift 2nd. All other gears I can shift as hard and fast as I want with no problems.

Will any of the updated parts be retrofittable or will we have to scrap our original unit and buy the new unit if it corrects the problem?

Thanks for your diligence with this issue and I hope the new unit will correct the problem and give us all faith that we can drive and shift our cars as intended.

 

[musclefan21]

Holy he'll! That looks like a badass shifter!

How much are we looking to spend for one?

 

[GT Premi]

Looks nice. Any discounts planned for people who already bought one of the "old" design shifters? A trade program, perhaps?

 

[NightRide]

Looks nice. Any discounts planned for people who already bought one of the "old" design shifters? A trade program, perhaps?

+1 I'm in for the new design but not for another 400.

 

[MGW]

I designed this shifter mainly because i bought a boss 302s ( which uses the same tr6060 )racecar from Ford and after running it hard on the track just knew it needed to be changed.

The 1-2 grind issue is a simple result of Ford trying desperately to lessen the cleft to right play and travel due to the hanging pendulum design of the shifter. The new SVT perf. pack ( prev. known as the KR shifter) shifter reduced the front to back throw so much that it put a major strain on the synchro in 2nd gear.

In my opinion it also made the throw feel way too notchy and rough. They did this in my opinion to try and make the left to right shift travel closer to a top loader design. It didnt work.

What i have done is actually LENGTHEN the front to back throw to the original stock travel but reduce the side to side play and deflection.

The fact is the shift from 1-2 can only happen so fast and its near impossible to "adjust" a fast shift you either shift full speed or you dont. So the trick is to find the right travel that allows you to shift the fastest the trans will allow on a consistent basis.


This design captures the center shaft so it only pivots or swivels the rod it does NOT swing the rod left to right like a pendulum. This allows the shifter to travel only the amount in the actual trans no "dead play"

facts...

it WILL be more expensive than the current design ( and worth every penny imho )

we WILL offer previous MGW GT500 customers a good discount on the new unit AND they can keep the older one and sell it. THe older design is still the BEST shifter out there currently and my vision is that many people will not want to spend the price of the new unit will buy up the older design for a great price and we compensate our loyal customers accordingly so they basically do not lose a penny. I will have details when we get closer to release date.


George

 

[FORDMAN GT500]

I cant wait! This looks killer . Im in . My MGW is 10x better then stock. Ive had it about 3 months now ..

 

[Tob]

Your new piece looks very nice George. Superb design and machine work.

A few things you said have me a little confused though.

The 1-2 grind issue is a simple result of Ford trying desperately to lessen the cleft to right play and travel due to the hanging pendulum design of the shifter. The new SVT perf. pack ( prev. known as the KR shifter) shifter reduced the front to back throw so much that it put a major strain on the synchro in 2nd gear.

The KR/SVT shifter reduced the throw by 25% from the original factory '07-'09 shifter, which had the slowest ratio of any year GT500 2007-2014. While it certainly sped things up a bit, I'm trying to better understand your claim that the 25% increase put a major strain on the synchro in second gear. Your current shifter allowed up to a 50% change or almost double the rate of the KR/FRPP or '10-'12 factory GT500 shifter. If you are trying to say that the rate increase allowed for a shift that was faster than (or that the potential existed) the synchro was designed to handle, I could rationalize that. Except my understanding is that it was designed to mesh at that rate, within spec.

When you say that you lengthened the front to back throw to the original stock travel... are you baselining the stock '07-'09 shifter? If so, the travel on your new unit will be less than both the '10-'12 shifter but the '13/'14 as well. And for clarity, this is with respect to the length from the center of fulcrum to the center of the pivot at the bottom of the shifter and not with respect to any dimensions from center of fulcrum to the top of the shifter ball. Yes?

The fact is the shift from 1-2 can only happen so fast and its near impossible to "adjust" a fast shift you either shift full speed or you dont. So the trick is to find the right travel that allows you to shift the fastest the trans will allow on a consistent basis.

If you have found a way to eliminate the "notch" in a TR6060 shift you've done a heck of a job. The synchros, rail detents, etc, will impart a certain level of it, especially when the transmission is new. I'm not so sure that "consistent" necessitates a slower rate but it certainly doesn't hurt as you've intimated. Ford's driveline engineers recognized the "hands beating the feet" issue in the GT500 and slowed the rate down in the '13/'14 shifter but it was still quicker than the OEM '07-'09 unit.

This design captures the center shaft so it only pivots or swivels the rod it does NOT swing the rod left to right like a pendulum. This allows the shifter to travel only the amount in the actual trans no "dead play"

That's a great idea. It looks as though the stick fulcrum is still above the "actuation rod" centerline but from what you have said I'd guess that there is a pivot/cup in the actuation shaft that allows it to roll to the left/right while also being thrust forward/backward. Yes? I like that you are replacing the factory rod and its booted joint as well.

Very nice.

 

[black99lightnin]

Tob, is the 07-09 shifter the best solution for a stock shifter? As you've seen in my numerous bitch threads I never had an issue grinding/locked out of 2nd in my '09.

However I'll probably buy the new MGW if it is proven to fix this issue.

 

[TheGovernment]

I'm gonna get one when I do my clutch and syncros in the trans! nice!!!

 

[Tob]

Tob, is the 07-09 shifter the best solution for a stock shifter? As you've seen in my numerous bitch threads I never had an issue grinding/locked out of 2nd in my '09.

Since the '07-'09 shifter was the stock shifter I'm assuming you are asking if the '07-'09 shifter is "better" than your 2012 shifter (?). The '10-'12 shifter is indeed "quicker" than not only the '07-'09 but it was quicker than the '13/'14 as well. Again, even Hameedi commented on the hands/feet issue with respect to a "slowed down" shifter for '13/'14. But there have so many changes over the run from the pedal box, clutch line, clutch disk/PP/TOB/flywheel, transmission gear ratios, transmission bearings, transmission output shaft and fixed flanges (big weight reduction after '09), shifters, as well as driveshaft and axle ratio changes. All of them can have an impact on shift quality under dynamic "high stress" conditions.

In my view, the best shift that an S197 TR6060 can achieve with respect to the shifter-only will occur with the most precise, deflection free (or minimized) unit you can have. This is irrespective of any NVH concerns which typically lead to precision reducing fixes. It can indeed be a game of whack-a-mole but a minimal deflection shift mechanism can go a long way.

 

[MGW]

With regards to the transmission and 2nd gear synchro...

We have been making shifters for quite a while now and we make a shifter for the Gen 5 Camaro, the Viper, The c6 Corvette and GT500 which all use the same Tr6060 trans. Ever since 2008 when the TR6060 debuted , there have been issues with the 2nd gear grind.

There have been 1000 conspiracy theories around what actually is the culprit from faulty synchro, to too thick of oil, to clutch issues etc.

The fact remains that when the TR6060 replaced the T56 then the 2nd gear grind showed up.

THIS IS WHY I FEEL THE 07-09 GT500 MODELS HAD NO ISSUES. IT REALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SHIFTER CHOICE ETC....

So lets go back a bit to the Z06....the oem shift length was VERY long but people really didnt have much issues with the 2nd gear grind unless they were VERY experienced drag racers that could shift lightening fast and they did complain about it even with the stocker but for the most part the issues came about more when the shifter throw was reduced too much.

A good analogy is this...If you walk to your mailbox which is 100 yards down your road and get the mail everyday with no issues but you have a major blockage in one of your arteries you may never know it.

Then one day you decide , " hell i'll take a quick run down to the mailbox" and BAM you drop over of a massive heart attack. Do you blame the heart attack on you running ...no the problem existed but you were stressing it.

We get this a lot when people say man my stock shifter never ground second gear but now it does cuz i put in this super short KR or Hurst etc. . it MUST be the shifter.

It's the same issue with the 2nd gear synchro...the problem is there , always has been, you just do not know it until you force the shift too hard. So making a short shifter isnt going to be about who has the shortest throw anymore with this trans but what design can align the shifter and trans perfectly, and allow the best blend of shorter throw AND enough travel to let the synchro spool properly.

ALSO...AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!! NEVER SHIFT FAST WHEN THE TR6060 IS COLD. THE THICKER FLUID DOES NEED TO HEAT UP TO ALLOW THE SYNCHRO TO SPOOL PROPERLY WHICH SUCKS FOR DRAG RACERS BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT A HEAT SOAKED ENGINE ROBBING YOU OF POWER BUT ITS A FACT OF LIFE FOR THIS TRANS.

So getting back to the 07-09 vs 10-12 vs 13-14....

I am not sure where the 25 percent reduction came from but we actually show closer to 37 percent reduction in the shortest shifter vs the 07 shifter which was longest but regardless the issue is 2 fold as mentioned... the T56 trans in the 07-09 cars was also a longer throw INTERNAL to the trans than the Tr6060 so it was a combination of effects so just measuring the shifter fulcrums alone isnt entirely accurate.

I am going to spell out an example but the numbers are completely arbitrary so please do not read into them as actuals...


Let's say the Tr6060 can make a 1-2 shift cleanyl 99 percent of the time in .5 seconds.

- the 07-09 throw happens in .8 seconds normal driving .... in .55 seconds speed shifting. ( no grind no issues )
- drop in kr shifter throw happens in .6 seconds normal driving ... .35 seconds speed shifting ( grinding off and on )
- new revised slower shifter in 13-14 cars throw happens in .7seconds and .45 seconds speed shifting ( much better but still affects the really fast shifters out there,

- so the only solution really seems to be ( now i realize nobody shifts the same speed but just like professional racing etc the TOP GUYS ARE ALWAYS WITHIN .01 seconds of each other ) design a shifter throw where you can extract .99999 percent of the ability of the trans and make it consistent....

The 10000000 dollar question is... would you rather have a .05 second faster shift throw but grind 2nd gear hit or miss and never feel 100 percent confident with the car when you go racing or just ripping around town or would you rather more focus on improving YOUR speed with a smoother shifter .

I would personally much rather have a longer smoother throw that i can work on making faster more consistent shifts with my technique than a sloppy but super close front to back shifter that never gives me confidence in my shifts.

Any performance modification has consequences...if they didnt we would all be running 2500 rwhp mustangs with 90 percent shift throw reductions!!!

George