Something is slipping....badly. Clutch? HELP, PLEASE!!

[03reptile]

Congrats on your success! Been reading all the threads concerning your adventure. I had a 2007. My big complaint was the occasional shuddering when taking off in first gear, which was normal for the ceramic clutch, but I hated it! Never had a slipping issue. I even had the TSB done, out of caution, and no real difference other than a lighter pedal pressure. (mind you, the ceramic clutch disk was still used back then) and the shudder remained. Now have a 2011 and what a difference!! For your edification, the 2010/2011 clutch system is not ceramic, (thank God!) but is larger, so the nay sayers comments about the superiority of the ceramic clutch is pretty mute. If you're not going to modify the crap out of the car and spend week-ends at the races, then the 2010/2011 clutch will be fine for you. It is a very strong system. It has a wonderful take-up feel, easy pedal pressure, and no shuddering!! All TSB related replacements are now done using the 2010/2011 clutch system and you are absolutley going to love the difference! Glad things worked out for you. Yes, persistence does pay off. Let us know how you like the new system when you get it completed.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

Just put a SPEC or McLoud clutch in. The new updated clutch feels great and easy to drive but cant handle the power. I'm learning this the hard way.
I would buy aftermarket clutch have dealership install it and then sell the TSB clutch to recoup funds. I wish I would have done this from the start. You would only be out the new clutch until you sold the TSB one.
If you are never going to mod car or take it to the track then just use the TSB clutch.

Just my .02. Glad they finally came to senses and are helping you out.

Thanks a lot. So how is your clutch holding up at the moment? I really considered getting an aftermarket clutch. And that's an excellent idea, if the dealership would go for it. But in my situation I think I am better off going with the TSB fix with no money out of pocket. It's my daily driver right now. It won't always be, but for now it is. And I want stock driveability until I get a beater car. I plan on modding it after the warranty expires (two months) but nothing too crazy. At the most, full bolt-ons with a ported stock eaton and custom tune. How do you think the new clutch will hold up to that? Until then, suspension is my priority.

Congrats on your success! Been reading all the threads concerning your adventure. I had a 2007. My big complaint was the occasional shuddering when taking off in first gear, which was normal for the ceramic clutch, but I hated it! Never had a slipping issue. I even had the TSB done, out of caution, and no real difference other than a lighter pedal pressure. (mind you, the ceramic clutch disk was still used back then) and the shudder remained. Now have a 2011 and what a difference!! For your edification, the 2010/2011 clutch system is not ceramic, (thank God!) but is larger, so the nay sayers comments about the superiority of the ceramic clutch is pretty mute. If you're not going to modify the crap out of the car and spend week-ends at the races, then the 2010/2011 clutch will be fine for you. It is a very strong system. It has a wonderful take-up feel, easy pedal pressure, and no shuddering!! All TSB related replacements are now done using the 2010/2011 clutch system and you are absolutley going to love the difference! Glad things worked out for you. Yes, persistence does pay off. Let us know how you like the new system when you get it completed.

Thank you! I'm excited about the new clutch. I can't stand the feel, noises and performance of this current POS clutch. I'll find out on Monday when the clutch kit will be available. Everything else the dealer should get overnight!! Someday down the road when I need a stronger clutch I'll upgrade but for now I'm sure I'll love the new one.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

UPDATE:

All of the parts finally arrived at the dealership yesterday. They were all available locally and were at the dealership overnight. This whole time we were waiting for the clutch kit which had to come straight from the vendor. Dropped of the car this morning and picked up my sweet-ass Focus loaner car. The repair is supposed to take 1-2 days. Not too bad. I'm also happy that I didn't have to leave my car at the dealership while waiting for the parts. I asked if I could keep the stock parts but they said for warranty work they couldn't give them back to me and had to send them to Ford.

I'll update when I get the car back and get some driving impressions.

 

[barstoolman]

Listen, I've had 3, count 'em 3, TSBs done and the bottom line here is if that flywheel is warped, you car/clutch is covered by warranty and the TSB. You should not put out one single penny for them to install the current clutch.

I drove mine for 27,000 miles until they got it right..........the first 3 TSBs didn't do anything other than wear out my clutch really fast. Finally, I have the clutch and drive I always thought this car should have. Unfortunately, I'm selling it as I just picked up a Boss 302.......now that's a Mustang!!!!!!

 

[thapr3dat0r]

Listen, I've had 3, count 'em 3, TSBs done and the bottom line here is if that flywheel is warped, you car/clutch is covered by warranty and the TSB. You should not put out one single penny for them to install the current clutch.

I drove mine for 27,000 miles until they got it right..........the first 3 TSBs didn't do anything other than wear out my clutch really fast. Finally, I have the clutch and drive I always thought this car should have. Unfortunately, I'm selling it as I just picked up a Boss 302.......now that's a Mustang!!!!!!

Yeah, I'm not even sure if my flywheel is warped. I don't get the clutch drag, just a bad slipping clutch. The service manager seems to be hooking me up. I'm really hoping this doesn't happen to me again. I only have two more months left on my 3 year warranty. Although, shouldn't the parts and labor have like a one year warranty? I swear if this one gets toasted fast and they try to tell me again about how the clutch is a wear item and isn't covered I'm gonna flip out. Especially if they use my expired warranty as an excuse.

Any idea why your clutch kept going out? Do you know which clutch they put in yours? Although ridiculous, I can see why you might have gone through 3 clutches considering there are about 4 versions of this TSB. Hopefully they got it right this time.

Congrats on the new Mustang. Those Boss's are sweet as hell.

 

[smrtasp]

I'm having to pay for a new one myself. I had one put in under warranty at 13K miles and 22K miles later the new one was slipping again. It spent 8 days at the first dealer without getting looked at and it’s been at the other one for 9 days and I can finally pick it up - obviously not covered under warranty. The clutch was worn down and dug into the flywheel so both had to be replaced. 2,400 retail for both pieces plus 900 in labor!!!. WTF on a $1,800 clutch that Ford doesn’t even make??? Fortunately the dealer is giving me cost +5% on the parts and a discount on the labor. Even the service rep found the pricing to be over the top and couldn’t charge me full price.

Funny enough, when I asked for a rep to look at the parts he said it’s just worn out but the new parts were a redesign that would work much better. I laughed and said all you just told me was that the original components were junk and needed to be redesigned, otherwise the same parts would still be in use and you should be cutting guys like me a break on this. The fact that you have to take off at 1500 + RPM to keep the thing from vibrating itself to pieces it likely the reason the thing wore out so early to begin with.

I can say that this is the first real service issue I have had with the car in the 3 years I have owned it so while I dont like having to pay for something like this, it wasn't going to last forever and I would have eventually needed to replace it. Let's hope this newer design is as good as everyone says it is.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

I'm having to pay for a new one myself. I had one put in under warranty at 13K miles and 22K miles later the new one was slipping again. It spent 8 days at the first dealer without getting looked at and it’s been at the other one for 9 days and I can finally pick it up - obviously not covered under warranty. The clutch was worn down and dug into the flywheel so both had to be replaced. 2,400 retail for both pieces plus 900 in labor!!!. WTF on a $1,800 clutch that Ford doesn’t even make??? Fortunately the dealer is giving me cost +5% on the parts and a discount on the labor. Even the service rep found the pricing to be over the top and couldn’t charge me full price.

Funny enough, when I asked for a rep to look at the parts he said it’s just worn out but the new parts were a redesign that would work much better. I laughed and said all you just told me was that the original components were junk and needed to be redesigned, otherwise the same parts would still be in use and you should be cutting guys like me a break on this. The fact that you have to take off at 1500 + RPM to keep the thing from vibrating itself to pieces it likely the reason the thing wore out so early to begin with.

I can say that this is the first real service issue I have had with the car in the 3 years I have owned it so while I dont like having to pay for something like this, it wasn't going to last forever and I would have eventually needed to replace it. Let's hope this newer design is as good as everyone says it is.

Yeah, I'm hoping so also. Sorry to hear about having to do such a costly repair. Glad they cut you a break, though. Not too bad a deal. Unfortunately, this seems like an all too common story with these cars. Do you know which clutch they put in yours the first time? I'm assuming the new one is from the 2010 TSB revision. What made you decide to go OEM as opposed to aftermarket?

I was wondering about the high rev take offs also. I thought it was just my car but I guess that's normal. Kinda embarrassing sometimes. The hiss I don't mind and think it's kinda cool but the chatter and shuttering and shit is just cheap sounding/feeling.

I called the dealer today and my car should be ready later today or tomorrow. Either way, I don't get off work until after service closes so tomorrow morning I'm hoping to pick it up. I'm kinda nervous about the tech test driving my car after the install. Wish I could put it in limp mode somehow.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

Alright, I picked my car up last night. When I got in the car and pressed the clutch pedal to start the car I really thought something was wrong. There was absolutely NO clutch pedal resistance, at least not compared to the original clutch. But the tech test drove it (8 miles) and gave it the OK. I understand the new clutch was supposed to have an easier engagement/disengagement but this was TOO EASY. It was literally hard to drive home. It was like I was learning to drive a manual transmission again. I was actually kind of disappointed but it was fixed for free under warranty and didn't slip so I was happy and grateful for that. After driving it a bit today I started getting used to it and it feels great. No more chatter, no more shaking but I can't recall if there was any hissing anymore. It's holding up pretty good, hope it stays that way.

Now, time to put the intake, pulley and tuner back on :rockon:

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Alright, I picked my car up last night. When I got in the car and pressed the clutch pedal to start the car I really thought something was wrong. There was absolutely NO clutch pedal resistance, at least not compared to the original clutch. But the tech test drove it (8 miles) and gave it the OK. I understand the new clutch was supposed to have an easier engagement/disengagement but this was TOO EASY. It was literally hard to drive home. It was like I was learning to drive a manual transmission again. I was actually kind of disappointed but it was fixed for free under warranty and didn't slip so I was happy and grateful for that. After driving it a bit today I started getting used to it and it feels great. No more chatter, no more shaking but I can't recall if there was any hissing anymore. It's holding up pretty good, hope it stays that way.

Now, time to put the intake, pulley and tuner back on :rockon:

Congrats on the new clutch. The pedal is way softer than original.
About your question earlier my updated TSB clutch is fine on the street. Took it to the track and made 2 passes both passes clutch was slipping. You could smell the clutch after the run was over. Still drives fine on the street but just couldn't handle the power at the track I'm guessing. That's why I was recommending maybe upgrading. But you may never go to track so no big deal. I'm putting a spec in mine. Well dealership has car right now putting it in along with MGW shifter.
Enjoy the new clutch!!! :beer:

 

[thapr3dat0r]

Congrats on the new clutch. The pedal is way softer than original.
About your question earlier my updated TSB clutch is fine on the street. Took it to the track and made 2 passes both passes clutch was slipping. You could smell the clutch after the run was over. Still drives fine on the street but just couldn't handle the power at the track I'm guessing. That's why I was recommending maybe upgrading. But you may never go to track so no big deal. I'm putting a spec in mine. Well dealership has car right now putting it in along with MGW shifter.
Enjoy the new clutch!!! :beer:

Thanks :beer: Yeah I'm really starting to like the new clutch. I might take it to the track a couple times, using street tires. I hope it holds up as well on the track as my WOT runs on the street. I put the intake and tune back on it today. I forgot what a difference in power and driveability I got with just those mods. Tomorrow the pulley goes back on :rolling: I know eventually I will need an aftermarket clutch with the goals I have for this car. But for now I'm happy :-D

Damn that MGW shifter is sweet tits. Which Spec clutch did you go with?

 

[thapr3dat0r]

I know this may sound like a placebo effect but the car seems slower after the new clutch. I think I read somewhere on Team Shelby Forums that said the new flywheel is heavier and beefier to prevent warping. Anyone else experience a seeming loss of power with the 2010 clutch?

 

[gt500vert]

I spoke to a guy who claimed to own the company that made the earlier flywheels. He told me that the orignal flywheels were cast, as opposed to the new ones that were forged.
I have no idea if he was BS or not. But my 08 is still perfect at 5500 miles and never did have any chatter etc. But its in the aftermarket shop right now for a new unit from a 2010 just because I can't stand the hard pedal anymore due to previous knee surguries.

I will have a perfectly working lightly used (never raced...just floored after it was engaged) ceramic complete clutch assembly for sale by the end of the week if anybody is serious about liking the ceramic clutch better.

 

[me32]

I know this may sound like a placebo effect but the car seems slower after the new clutch. I think I read somewhere on Team Shelby Forums that said the new flywheel is heavier and beefier to prevent warping. Anyone else experience a seeming loss of power with the 2010 clutch?

The car should not feel slower. But if they did the full newest tsb it called for an updated pcm tune which maybe your issue there. Also on the flywheel it self it is true that the old flywheel was a cast nodular iron where the new one was a billit steel flywheel that is stronger which is a little heavier but not heavy enough that any driver would be able to tell the difference. So in your issue the flywheel did not cause ur car to feel slow.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

I'm gonna have to look back through the threads by Grabber on Team Shelby. He had an awesome comparison between the two clutches/flywheels with pics and everything. I THINK some other guys also mentioned feeling slower. It would make sense since any increase in weight on the flywheel would make a significant difference. Maybe it's all in my head. I mean, the car still pulls like crazy with my intake, tune and pulley back on.

Here's what Justin from VMP said about the PCM calibration:

"I looked at the new flash from Ford, its not a performance de-tune or anything sinister like that. There is very little on the calibration end that I see changed, they may have changed the strategy (operating system) to fix some quirks in the way the PCM processes code (like a new version of your windows operating system).

Other than the hassle of having to put your car back to stock, I don't really see any issues with it."


Besides, I put my VMP tune back on when I put on the other stuff after the new clutch.

 

[me32]

Yes go look at grabbers post.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

Ok, looks like the new clutch is 35% larger (250mm), the flywheel is heavier and there are thicker pressure plates. That seems plenty to make the car feel slower, especially considering where the increase in mass and weight is. A couple guys noticed the same thing (chuckstang & mciarochi). Doesn't rev as quickly, traction in first gear, etc. All things that I noticed also.

 

[me32]

Ok, looks like the new clutch is 35% larger (250mm), the flywheel is heavier and there are thicker pressure plates. That seems plenty to make the car feel slower, especially considering where the increase in mass and weight is. A couple guys noticed the same thing (chuckstang & mciarochi). Doesn't rev as quickly, traction in first gear, etc. All things that I noticed also.

How about you get us some actual weight comparison cause as of right now everything is based off speculations which isn't facts just theory. Cause if the car was really slower there would have to be a good 10lb plus pounds of added weight to the rotating setup. So I'm not saying its not true I would just like some facts to be brought up. so then if you don't have one already a aluminum drive shaft would off set the weight.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

How about no. I don't really care to PROVE to you or anyone the specific weight differences of each component. I honestly have better things to do right now. I'm sure the info is out there, I'm just not going to read through 20 page threads to provide facts just because you are a skeptic. Why are you so against the possibility the clutch and flywheel are heavier? Does that bother you personally? Sure seems so. I don't really care if you believe me or not, I'm just stating personal observations that are shared by others. I know my car very well so I know when something is different. Immediately after a major repair with different components that are bigger and supposed to be stronger and heavier the car magically feels different? Hmmm, wonder what it could be. Yeah that's a no-brainer.

 

[Tob]

Your car is a pig and unless you have 3.73's or lower (4.11's, etc) more mass at the flywheel won't hurt you.

Besides comprising part of the clutch's total friction package, flywheels act like a second harmonic damper to smooth out engine harmonics. A heavier flywheel absorbs and stores engine power. When this energy is suddenly released, it can help get a heavy vehicle moving or make a vehicle more manageable in stop-and-go driving. Conversely, a lighter flywheel lets the engine rev up more quickly once the vehicle is already in motion. Traditionally, light cars with aggressive rearend gears or those operating at sustained rpm could get away with lighter flywheels; heavier cars, street cars with mild rear gears, or Sportsman-level drag cars that needed to get off the line quickly went with the heavies. This thinking has evolved because many of today's hot rods make so much power and torque, they no longer need crutching by heavy flywheels. Unless you have a really heavy barge or mild rear gears, lean toward a lightweight flywheel above 500 hp.

McLeod Racing - New Disc Clutch System News - What's New In Clutches

TECH TIP – HOW DO I SELECT THE PROPER FLYWHEEL?

When we are asked for a flywheel recommendation, several factors are considered to make a proper recommendation.

What is the primary use of the vehicle? For street driven vehicles, a steel flywheel will provide easier engagement and longer clutch life.

What is the rear end gearing? Lower (higher numerically) gears will make engaging the clutch easier, while higher gearing requires the clutch to be slipped more on takeoff for a smooth transition.

What is the weight of the vehicle? If it is over 2800 pounds, we will generally recommend steel.

Remember what the flywheel’s job is – to help you get the car accelerating smoothly. If you have ever driven a vehicle and tried to pull off in second gear, you know you had to slip the clutch significantly more to get moving than if you started in low. This is the same effect you would notice if the flywheel is too light.

 

[thapr3dat0r]

Thanks, Tob. That's good info. I have no doubt this is a far better clutch, I'm loving it so far. I'm not too worried about the additional rotating mass. It was just something I noticed and wanted to see if anyone else noticed it also. Car has plenty of power to get going when I need it to.

So I plan on getting 3.73s soon. Is that considered a mild gear? I think it'll be fine.