thats a pump gas motor
Specialty Engine predictions
- Thread starter paynecasey
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thats a pump gas motor
Oops, my bad. I saw the CJ intake and just ass-u-me'd you were talking about the CJ engine. The link does indeed give information on the lower compression, dual-bore TB, street-spec version.
Wow! 56 more horsepower (500+ vs. 444) out of what is basically a Boss 302 engine with CJ intake and throttle body (& headers)! I'm impressed.
the only way wheel see a 5.2l coyote is if it features the PTWA spray bore, it just won't be happening on a production engine with conventional iron sleeves due to long term wear issues(not a problem on race engines obviously). same reason the 4.6-based 5.0l 'cammer' never made it into a production car with the same cylinder bore, long term wear issues.
i agree with you completely about the 3.5EB GT350 idea, but i don't see it ever happening. my dream mustang is a fox body with minimal street equipment, griggs SLA front, cobra IRS swapped in(with bruce's goodies to make it actually GOOD), powered by a turbo 3.5l, backed by a face plated T56, and lots of aero work - would be tits on a road course:rockon:
most races don't have firm displacement limits(even though some say so in the rules), but rather work with manufacturers to get a competitive package on the track. hence the reason the 8.4l dodge viper is allowed to race, but that massive engine is basically breathing through straws so that it doesn't have an unfair advantage over the competition.
100% without a doubt, that engine won't pass ford's production durability testing. in all likelihood, it won't make it past federal(or CARB) emissions testing either.
that engine is equipped with the cobra jet intake, which doesn't make any more HP over the boss 302 intake until you start spinning the engine past ~8000RPM - that's fine for a race car or someone hot rodding their car, but that's a major NO GO for a production car that must last at least 150,000 miles(let's be honest, every non-exotic should be able to make that number) in 0 degree up to 110 degree ambient temparatures.
throw on top of that how expensive this engine is compared to the current production coyotes - the ARP2000 rod bolts alone that are a 100% necessity when you're spinning past 8000RPM cost nearly 5 times as much as the rod bolts in the coyote 5.0l. throw in the mahle forged pistons and manley forged rods rods and you have an engine that absolutely is not worth the price in a production car.
the coyote can't be punched out anywhere near that large. don't bother quoting the K1/wiseco coyote 351 kit, because that kit never made it to production due to problems that showed up on the engine dyno.
Id rather see them just make a 5.0 with 500 hp n/a. Easily doable in a production car. They could add DI to it, a better intake and just about be there on the current motor. Owners are essentially making 500 flywheel hp or more already with just bolt ons and a tune.
No need to bore or stroke it?
No need to bore or stroke it?
yeah I remember reading something about that 351 build .
Think of it this way. The 5.8 is basically a 5.4 with a larger bore and higher compression. The 5.4 is a 4.6 with new heads and a taller deck. The 5.8 is basically just old technology meant to give everyone a snack to hold them over for dinner. The only new technology (don't hold me for this, there may be something small i'm forgetting) developed for the engine is the sleeve technology and that can be used for other motors so they really won't be loosing anything. The new motor will use the new TiVCT technology, which means it would be much easier and cheaper for ford to put a taller deck on the current coyote block and revise the heads than to basically start over to make completely new heads for a 20 year old block. So there may be an increase in displacement in the coyote platform, but that 5.8 was meant to hold people off, it was never meant to stay.
americansteel
Banned
sorry to break the news to ya bud but the 5.8l is staying. that is a motor that will be in the mach1 and in the cobra. old technology? really? im sorry but because the 5.8l doesn't use Tivct doesn't make it old technology, especially when Tivct has been around for awhile now. the 5.8l vs the 5.0l the 5.0 would get torn apart! there's is nothing technological about the 5.0l engine. its nothing more than a 4.6l with a tad bigger stroke and bore with a better block. ford invested billions of dollars on all of the new engines and the 5.8l is here to stay.
Not sure if serious :bored:
Herp Derp.
Ford has already said that the Trinity 5.8L is not returning. It will not fit in the next gen Mustang engine bay because it's too big. And they won't build a car specifically for that engine.
americansteel
Banned
it doesn't fit? LMAO! the 5.8l fits fines.
I was given a picture via e-mail by a ford exec that I know, I seen the new 5.0 and the 5.8l. the 5.8l will be N/A not blown. ford has plans for the 5.8l. mach1 and cobra! just like the gt350 ford has special plans for that,
5.0l gets no power increase, but new cam covers. I wasn't given numbers on the 5.8l. from what I was told that the 5.8l was projected to be 450-480hp.
I've read nothing from Ford about this, or anything else discussed as fact. It's still all magazine and blog speculation at this point "from anonymous sources inside Ford blah blah blah". This particular "Trinity is dead" info was first seen in Automobile Magazine from what I've seen printed everywhere. Even the recent CAD drawing info is conjecture. The only thing I believe is that none of what I've read can be considered factual info from Ford. :beer:
americansteel
Banned
and you wont find any information about this any time soon. as the months go on into next year there will be more info released on the new platform. just like the info that was given awhile back about the mach1 yet there were no other pieces of info given about that car. the 5.8l will be released in 2015 when the mach1 comes out. so we have some time in-between now and then. and just like this flat-crank rumor? ford never even talked about a flat-crank for their V8 engines.
I was talking about the fact that it was based on a motor that came out in 96... And I'm not sure where you are getting this info about the 5.8 being vastly superior to the 5.0, because with equally built motors the 5.0s are making about as much power lb for lb of boost as the 5.8. Or are you referring to the 5.8 with a TVS vs a stock 5.0, because if that's what you mean then you aught to be shot. Did you just join this forum to attack people with no facts to back your shit up? Please stop being a keyboard warrior, you've made your opinion now let other people say what they think and go do something else. I don't see any reason for them to keep it when the coyote has much better volumetric efficiency, gas mileage and emissions... And with Ford trying to compete in the Euro market, all the regulations are going to have the new cars squished up, so if the 5.8 does fit, it will be a squeeze. Im still skeptical, because everyone claims they know some insider guy or something, yet I have never once seen good proof so if you're right then more power to you, but don't take offense if I take what you say with a grain of salt...
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americansteel
Banned
I was talking about the fact that it was based on a motor that came out in 96... And I'm not sure where you are getting this info about the 5.8 being vastly superior to the 5.0, because with equally built motors the 5.0s are making about as much power lb for lb of boost as the 5.8. Or are you referring to the 5.8 with a TVS vs a stock 5.0, because if that's what you mean then you aught to be shot. Did you just join this forum to attack people with no facts to back your shit up? Please stop being a keyboard warrior, you've made your opinion now let other people say what they think and go do something else. I don't see any reason for them to keep it when the coyote has much better volumetric efficiency, gas mileage and emissions... And with Ford trying to compete in the Euro market, all the regulations are going to have the new cars squished up, so if the 5.8 does fit, it will be a squeeze. Im still skeptical, because everyone claims they know some insider guy or something, yet I have never once seen good proof so if you're right then more power to you, but don't take offense if I take what you say with a grain of salt...
don't be so stupid!!! the 5.8l has a 47 cubic inch advantage over the 5.0l. this why the 5.4l was used in GT500's and Cobra R models instead of the 4.6l. that cubic inch advantage is clearly known and has been shown from time to time. emissions? the boss mustang got less MPG's and emitted more spent gases into the atmosphere compared to the GT 5.0. and the boss had to make its peak power at a much higher RPM than the GT 5.0. so if you think a 5.0 making 475hp would get better gas mileage than the 5.8l making that at 6600rpm you must be delusional nor do you not know engine physics much like rotary motion from thermal expansion.. sorry but that wont happen. the bigger the motor the less that engine has to work, the less that engine has to work the less that engine has to use fuel.
5.0l - 422hp. you stick the cams and heads of a 5.0 on the 5.8 with matching intake but with a 85/90MM TB that 5.8l with the same compression ratio of the 5.0 at 11:1 that 5.8l would be making 475ish (or more) horsepower at around 6500RPM.
I've seen the new 5.8l now it maybe a tall deck coyote! it did have funny looking cam covers on it though or maybe it might be what's in the GT500 now I don't know, but all I know is that ford is dropping the 5.8l in the mustang for 2 new model mustang. I get my information from an executive that works at ford, I will believe him over a magazine article that was started by some random dude on the internet. and I never mentioned anything about the 5.8l being boosted.
Okay we are not on the same page. I was arguing that the 5.0 heads are very efficient, sure if you put them on a 5.8 with the same compression it's going to make more power. My thought would be that ford would put a taller deck on the 5.0, maybe bore it out, if they want more displacement, but it would make sense to me to work with the coyote platform. And the popular opinion is that the coyote platform will make more power cube for cube, so if they go with a higher displacement n/a motor in the cobra/gt350, why not a bigger coyote? Hey i'm not discrediting you, we will wait and see, maybe you're right maybe not, no offense but I don't believe anyone because everyone says they have a connection and that what they say is 100% accurate etc. :beer:
I have not heard or seen anything about a new mach 1.....
There are various stories on the interwebs quoting various 'inside Ford sources' once again, though absolutely no concrete evidence of it. All the stories have the usual 'could', 'may', and 'believed' keywords. :beer:
Same with the flat crank V-8, demise of the 5.8L, the GT350, and whatever else we've read in the last few months. Till I see a Dearborn press release I'll just wait impatiently for actual news.
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americansteel
Banned
it might be a possibility that the new 5.8l will be a coyote based motor! its possible. but also don't forget, that ford invested billions on their new engines back in 2010. ford wont throw that motor away just yet. doesn't the coyote heads flow like 320cfm? use that head on a 5.8l that motor will make more efficient use of that airflow then what that 5.0 could do. use the 6.2l then both the 5.0 and 5.8 couldn't even touch that 6.2l
I made more power with a 4v big bore 4.6l than a coyote did so I cant use that "And the popular opinion is that the coyote platform will make more power cube for cube" comment... a 3.700 bore is a lot better than the 3.665 bore and 4.00 bore is a lot better.
Uh.........no. The coyote heads wont fit the 5.8. Not even close. You cant punch out a coyote to displace 5.8L either so that wont happen. The 6.2L is a 2 valve. Its not THAT great of a motor. A coyote can easily out power a 6.2L, because it has higher flow heads and newer/better technology. When are you gonna learn that its not all about displacement anymore? Why do you think Ford has been making just as much power and in many cases more power with less cubes than chevy and dodge have, despite having less displacement?
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