Suspension Attention!!! Failure Inside

[rotor_powerd]

Well if it's intended purpose is for off road use only and you wreck in the street then I think they're probably covered.

If that failure directly causes an accident on the street that lands the driver in the hospital or worse, they can't hide behind their little "Off road use only" clause.

Even with that clause, the drag strip counts as "off road" use and that is where this part would be under the most stress.

I wouldn't want that sort of liability on my hands, that's the sort of thing that keeps you up at night.

 

[dirtyo2000]

Can't blame the shop for installing parts the customer requests. If I didn't install every part given to me for someone I would be missing a large part of my income. Sure, you can give advice but at the end of the day the customer is right. I had a guy that brough some bolt ons for a motorcycle to extend the swing arm. Paid 150 for them off Ebay when other manufactures charged 225.

Told him when he gave them to me, they are no good and not to use them. He kept telling me its what he wanted and he would deal with the consquences. I didn't install them and he found someone that would. A week later he was in the hospita when the came apart on the street and all he did was slide down the road a little. Now if he was on the highway stretching it out he might not be here today.

Job of the installer is to install. Majority of the time when you tell someone it won't work they don't want to hear it, just that it's installed per instructions. Most are not really enthuasists that buy aftermarket parts. Some hear it works, purchase and have it installed.

There are those like Van, Tob, Zack and a few others that actually check out the parts they install. Will look at something and find faults and not use it. There are some that see a shiny part and figure it's good because someone says " we tested it and it performed flawless and the best thing going" then you have a failure and no one wants to take responsibility. I deal with it at least 3 - 4 times a month

 

[Blackmax]

I am still wondering who was the shop/tech that installed the part? I think that him/they would be just as responsible for the failure.

Really? I would think the shop or tech would only be responsible if they installed it incorrectly.

These arms are still for sale which I also find disturbing, if I owned the company I would stop all sales.

 

[Tob]

I am still wondering who was the shop/tech that installed the part? I think that him/they would be just as responsible for the failure.

How utterly sad that the above has become the mindset.

WL should be lauded (if anything) for at least addressing the failure in a public forum which we all know can be a PR disaster if not handled in a delicate, professional manner. As stated, we have yet to see the particulars on the failed UCA. Sure we'd love to know how much power the car had, tires used, road/strip conditions, the rest of the driveline and suspension components, etc, but we don't yet.

Irksome that many jump straight to mention of the legal system and of the horrendous implications. Loss of human life! Pain and suffering! The war on women! Kittens left out in the cold! Seriously, lets not invoke and thus invite yet another bureaucracy to impose even more regulation upon our favorite pastime.

Visual verification is cursory at best. Looks like a HAZ/insufficient material failure to me. Can the issue be mitigated by substituting a stronger steel plate? Should WL's welding process/technique be reviewed and improved? Was their product testing somehow flawed? Hopefully WL is open and honest about everything they do to make the product better - post failure. Lord knows that just about every aftermarket company out there has suffered from similar issues. For example...

BMR has dealt with 'bad batches' of poly bushings in the past...

They've had good bushings squirm and exit...

They've also had quite a bit of success and have enabled quite a few to dial in their geometry with precision. So they're not perfect either. Above all, at least their arms/brackets are designed to be robust, probably more so than most others in the game. And based purely on design, I'd expect WL's arm end to take a pounding where it failed as much as WL appears to have been satisfied with it. But an outright disaster? I'd leave that to this one, from a few months ago...

Suffice it to say, the importance lies in how WL handles the issue as we move forward. Are they going to chalk it up to a one time 'freak' and isolated incident or is a redesign pending? At this point their biggest issue will be one of consumer confidence. Suspension failures spread across the community like wildfire and hopefully the attempt they make at instilling or restoring it is successful.

 

[Gus from Steeda]

Wow, those pictures are getting around, a colleague in the industry privately emailed me those pictures yesterday, and now here they are.

As a manufacturer, we agree with what others have said here that the material is too thin. What is sad is that this has happened before. This is just history repeating itself. A supplier comes into the industry with brackets that are too thin and questionable construction, the consumer gets lured in by the low cost, and eventually... BOOM.

I've got an upper arm in my office right now from someone who marketed the particular arm 10 years ago or so and the axle end bracket is so thin I can flex it with my hand, and I'm not the strongest guy out there. It doesnt look much different than the piece pictured here. It just as thin.

The axle end bracket really needs to have more material than it does.

 

[Crowley]

How utterly sad that the above has become the mindset.

WL should be lauded (if anything) for at least addressing the failure in a public forum which we all know can be a PR disaster if not handled in a delicate, professional manner. As stated, we have yet to see the particulars on the failed UCA. Sure we'd love to know how much power the car had, tires used, road/strip conditions, the rest of the driveline and suspension components, etc, but we don't yet.

Irksome that many jump straight to mention of the legal system and of the horrendous implications. Loss of human life! Pain and suffering! The war on women! Kittens left out in the cold! Seriously, lets not invoke and thus invite yet another bureaucracy to impose even more regulation upon our favorite pastime.

Visual verification is cursory at best. Looks like a HAZ/insufficient material failure to me. Can the issue be mitigated by substituting a stronger steel plate? Should WL's welding process/technique be reviewed and improved? Was their product testing somehow flawed? Hopefully WL is open and honest about everything they do to make the product better - post failure. Lord knows that just about every aftermarket company out there has suffered from similar issues. For example...

BMR has dealt with 'bad batches' of poly bushings in the past...

They've had good bushings squirm and exit...

They've also had quite a bit of success and have enabled quite a few to dial in their geometry with precision. So they're not perfect either. Above all, at least their arms/brackets are designed to be robust, probably more so than most others in the game. And based purely on design, I'd expect WL's arm end to take a pounding where it failed as much as WL appears to have been satisfied with it. But an outright disaster? I'd leave that to this one, from a few months ago...

Suffice it to say, the importance lies in how WL handles the issue as we move forward. Are they going to chalk it up to a one time 'freak' and isolated incident or is a redesign pending? At this point their biggest issue will be one of consumer confidence. Suspension failures spread across the community like wildfire and hopefully the attempt they make at instilling or restoring it is successful.

Well stated!

Crowley

 

[WHITELINE]

Greetings SVTPerformance.com
Over the past few months we've been working with the fine folks at SVTPerformance.com to become a vendor on this board, although completed we haven't set up yet, it is unfortunate that this is our first post.

I would like to address this isolated issue. Firstly, most of yesterday was dedicated to investigating this very specific matter and ensuring the owner is being taken care of. As Van and many others have expressed this is no joking manner and we take this very seriously. As this post was created we were focused on the customer instead of the PR side.

Our first priority is ensuring the end user customer is taken care of. Our customer service / technical advisers have been in contact and discussed with the vehicle owner. We are at the moment investigating what may have caused and will have a better picture once the faulty unit is sent to us for analysis. The owner has been in contact and sent replacement - should arrive sometime today if not already.

Although this is only 1 isolated incident, the break looks serious enough and is alarming to us that we have raised its urgency here internally. Again, we must review the original unit and if stress was applied to other areas ie bushings, before conclusive decisions can be made.

We've utilized the help of many of the nations top dealers and Mustang specialists to test our products in extreme conditions. This is the very 1st failure of this kind we've encountered on a relatively mild vehicle. Our supporters, dealers, and test cars have been on practically every road surface, driving condition, mild to well over 1000+ HP vehicles, and seen extreme loads from multiple angles in drag racing, road racing, and drifting on many of the nations top motorsport platforms.

Please do not minimize our dealers (and yours) and customers by simply implying its all about margins. We have global operations and the laws of economies of scales allow us to pass on those savings to customers. Our customers are our first priorities so please allow us the opportunity to review this failure and investigate proper course of action before blanket statements about our entire operations.

We have experience racing many different vehicles of varying weights and suspension designs - we are confident we can investigate and make right. I will confidently say we are not too proud to improve designs when necessary. Our business in Ford Mustang is an important goal of ours we have NO problem continuing to perfect our parts at ANY COSTS!

PS. Our parts indeed are manufactured AND Assembled in the United States of America in sunny Southern California. That means the chromoly is from USA, cut in USA, welded in USA, powder coated in USA etc… Please stop implying anything else. I have provided Certificate of Origin from the US governments NAFTA agreement and haven't seen anyone else posting up their sensitive documents.

Van,
If willing I would love to give you a call to receive your inputs, good or bad. We understand you do not sell our products and can certainly respect that. Your experience and inputs would still be much appreciated. We've relied on the inputs of many of the nations top Mustang specialists to help us deliver the best bang for your buck parts and would be pleased if you would join in communication to help with our quest.

 

[ZYBORG]

how so? its still bolted in place. You can see that the boxed there caved in and it ripped it apart at the seems...unless you just mean theyre to blame for selling/installing it in the first place

If you notice my initial post below, that is exactly what I mean.

My question is who was the joke of a shop/tech that went ahead and installed these without bringing to question how thin the material was?

.............

 

[Tob]

Greetings SVTPerformance.com
Over the past few months we've been working with the fine folks at SVTPerformance.com to become a vendor on this board, although completed we haven't set up yet, it is unfortunate that this is our first post...

That was a well thought out first post. We all look forward to your findings.

Keep us in the loop!

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van,
If willing I would love to give you a call to receive your inputs, good or bad. We understand you do not sell our products and can certainly respect that. Your experience and inputs would still be much appreciated. We've relied on the inputs of many of the nations top Mustang specialists to help us deliver the best bang for your buck parts and would be pleased if you would join in communication to help with our quest.

I'm available for discussion. 561-445-7702

 

[PistolWhip]

Does anyone know who the vehicle owner is? I'm curious to get his opinions and some back story. I'd really live to see some pics of that thing out of the car too.

 

[ZYBORG]

Really? I would think the shop or tech would only be responsible if they installed it incorrectly.

These arms are still for sale which I also find disturbing, if I owned the company I would stop all sales.

I think that any self-respecting and knowledgeable shop/tech would not have installed the part after visual inspection. Kind of like Van stated that he would not sell or instal the part after observing how thin the material was for the car's power/weight.

Just because someone wants to pay you to do and/or instal something doesnt mean that it should be done. Kind of how a physician will turn down certain procedures/jobs as they are not in the patient's/customer's best interest.

How utterly sad that the above has become the mindset.

WL should be lauded (if anything) for at least addressing the failure in a public forum which we all know can be a PR disaster if not handled in a delicate, professional manner. As stated, we have yet to see the particulars on the failed UCA. Sure we'd love to know how much power the car had, tires used, road/strip conditions, the rest of the driveline and suspension components, etc, but we don't yet.

Irksome that many jump straight to mention of the legal system and of the horrendous implications. Loss of human life! Pain and suffering! The war on women! Kittens left out in the cold! Seriously, lets not invoke and thus invite yet another bureaucracy to impose even more regulation upon our favorite pastime.

Visual verification is cursory at best. Looks like a HAZ/insufficient material failure to me. Can the issue be mitigated by substituting a stronger steel plate? Should WL's welding process/technique be reviewed and improved? Was their product testing somehow flawed? Hopefully WL is open and honest about everything they do to make the product better - post failure. Lord knows that just about every aftermarket company out there has suffered from similar issues. For example...

BMR has dealt with 'bad batches' of poly bushings in the past...

They've had good bushings squirm and exit...

They've also had quite a bit of success and have enabled quite a few to dial in their geometry with precision. So they're not perfect either. Above all, at least their arms/brackets are designed to be robust, probably more so than most others in the game. And based purely on design, I'd expect WL's arm end to take a pounding where it failed as much as WL appears to have been satisfied with it. But an outright disaster? I'd leave that to this one, from a few months ago...

Suffice it to say, the importance lies in how WL handles the issue as we move forward. Are they going to chalk it up to a one time 'freak' and isolated incident or is a redesign pending? At this point their biggest issue will be one of consumer confidence. Suspension failures spread across the community like wildfire and hopefully the attempt they make at instilling or restoring it is successful.

Hopefully you are talking to me and not about me when you quoted me, as I happen to totally agree with your point of view and support what you have just said.

 

[Blackmax]

I think that any self-respecting and knowledgeable shop/tech would not have installed the part after visual inspection. Kind of like Van stated that he would not sell or instal the part after observing how thin the material was for the car's power/weight.

Just because someone wants to pay you to do and/or instal something doesnt mean that it should be done. Kind of how a physician will turn down certain procedures/jobs as they are not in the patient's/customer's best interest.

If what you are saying is correct then its an open and shut case. The part is indeed no good and should not be installed by any shop tech. They will have to re-design the arm.

 

[Tob]

Hopefully you are talking to me and not about me when you quoted me, as I happen to totally agree with your point of view and support what you have just said.

I was neither talking to you or about you. I was making a statement, in essence, about litigation and what I see as a total lack of responsibility here in the US. Fall down and get hurt...who do I sue? Teacher was 'mean' to my kid...who do I sue? On and on. In most cases, the suit follows the money.

In this case, if the failing parts were installed by a garage, I wouldn't expect them to be well versed in metallurgy, experts in the field of weld certification or x-ray, nor to hold degrees in Engineering, etc. They merely contracted to install a part as requested by the owner (we are assuming). As long as they followed the manufacturers instructions I don't see how they could be held at fault for a failure such as the one in this thread. Other than the fact that I could envision a legal action that simply names all the parties involved in order to maximize the potential for some sort of financial reward. That doesn't mean that I'd ever agree with it in any way, shape, or form.

 

[fullboogie]

Good response from Whiteline. Maybe this will lead to a revamping of some of their components, and we all benefit. Can you imagine how Granatelli would have responded?

 

[WHITELINE]

How utterly sad that the above has become the mindset.

WL should be lauded (if anything) for at least addressing the failure in a public forum which we all know can be a PR disaster if not handled in a delicate, professional manner. As stated, we have yet to see the particulars on the failed UCA. Sure we'd love to know how much power the car had, tires used, road/strip conditions, the rest of the driveline and suspension components, etc, but we don't yet.

Irksome that many jump straight to mention of the legal system and of the horrendous implications. Loss of human life! Pain and suffering! The war on women! Kittens left out in the cold! Seriously, lets not invoke and thus invite yet another bureaucracy to impose even more regulation upon our favorite pastime.

Visual verification is cursory at best. Looks like a HAZ/insufficient material failure to me. Can the issue be mitigated by substituting a stronger steel plate? Should WL's welding process/technique be reviewed and improved? Was their product testing somehow flawed? Hopefully WL is open and honest about everything they do to make the product better - post failure. Lord knows that just about every aftermarket company out there has suffered from similar issues. For example...

BMR has dealt with 'bad batches' of poly bushings in the past...

They've had good bushings squirm and exit...

They've also had quite a bit of success and have enabled quite a few to dial in their geometry with precision. So they're not perfect either. Above all, at least their arms/brackets are designed to be robust, probably more so than most others in the game. And based purely on design, I'd expect WL's arm end to take a pounding where it failed as much as WL appears to have been satisfied with it. But an outright disaster? I'd leave that to this one, from a few months ago...

Suffice it to say, the importance lies in how WL handles the issue as we move forward. Are they going to chalk it up to a one time 'freak' and isolated incident or is a redesign pending? At this point their biggest issue will be one of consumer confidence. Suspension failures spread across the community like wildfire and hopefully the attempt they make at instilling or restoring it is successful.

Thanks for your inputs - original assessment relied on the tensile strength of 4130 chromoly and initial testing under extreme conditions/vehicles were positive. We've taken notice of other manufacturers thickness; however, due to the grade of steel we felt the chromoly would be stronger whilst minimizing weight. Our understanding is this vehicle was not under any abnormal extreme loads therefore, high probability of defective unit. Nonetheless we will investigate accordingly and ensure the vehicle owner remains top priority.

The examples you pointed are without a doubt a rare circumstance as I believe this case to be. Every manufacturer has come across defective units released to public. It is unfortunate but Whiteline, like many, will continue to eliminate that margin as much as possible. The internet has a funny way of documenting all these types of issues, there's nothing we can do about that so we'll stick to customer service and innovation.

Thank you for the mature approach!

 

[ZYBORG]

I was neither talking to you or about you. I was making a statement, in essence, about litigation and what I see as a total lack of responsibility here in the US. Fall down and get hurt...who do I sue? Teacher was 'mean' to my kid...who do I sue? On and on. In most cases, the suit follows the money.

In this case, if the failing parts were installed by a garage, I wouldn't expect them to be well versed in metallurgy, experts in the field of weld certification or x-ray, nor to hold degrees in Engineering, etc. They merely contracted to install a part as requested by the owner (we are assuming). As long as they followed the manufacturers instructions I don't see how they could be held at fault for a failure such as the one in this thread. Other than the fact that I could envision a legal action that simply names all the parties involved in order to maximize the potential for some sort of financial reward. That doesn't mean that I'd ever agree with it in any way, shape, or form.

I guess I am failing to understand why you quoted me since you state that you were neither talking to me or about me.

Since you quoted my text and then stated right below it "How utterly sad that the above has become the mindset" that lead me to the conclusion that again you were talking to me or about me as in pointing out my "mind set". The funny part is that you then proceeded to make a point about "litigation and the lack of responsability here in the US" which are points that I totally agree with.

 

[ZYBORG]

My main points on this thread still remain:

Would still like to find out who the shop/tech that installed the product was?

Although the photograph that Van posted of Whiteline's arm shows how the material is too thin and likely to fail, I can appreciate how Whiteline is handling the situation and displaying their customer service which appears leaps and bounds above many companies out there.

 

[dirtyo2000]

What difference does it make who installed the part? Part was installed and it failed, case closed. Whether it be a dealer, backyard mechanic or Johnny Appleseed. The installer is not liable for defective part failures. With that way of thinking no parts would ever get installed on cars.

I would blame the person that brought the part? Now what

 

[Tob]

ZY, it was the latter portion of your quote below that led me to respond. And when I did, I replied in a manner that didn't direct my distaste for the "mindset" towards you but rather at how pervasive it is today.

I am still wondering who was the shop/tech that installed the part? I think that him/they would be just as responsible for the failure.