Thinking about a Mach

[DR 305]

We all are raising good points about these two great cars. My point is, the Terminator is a better platform to start from as far as making the cars faster, dollar per dollar. Take $3500 and put it in the Mach and see how much HP that will get you. Now take the $3500 put it in the Terminator and see how much HP, (KB or Whipple upgrades) that will get you. No where close to the potential of the Terminator. Before you even started to get close to the HP level of the Terminator, the Mach would have to have forged internals, well there goes the $3500. Also, the Terminator came stock with an aluminum flywheel. I say this because a lot of the Mach guys pay extra for this upgrade....Let me put it this way, The Terminator could get to 600 plus rwhp a lot cheaper than the Mach could, because the Terminator already has all the good stuff to start with.....:banana:

 

[TR03Mach1]

Terminator Schmerminator, the Mach 1 LOOKS WAAAYYY COOLER!! :coolman:

 

[KduncSS]

Terminator Schmerminator, the Mach 1 LOOKS WAAAYYY COOLER!! :coolman:

I know right. Same front and rear bumpers as 99-04 V6's and GT's is SOOOO TIGHT AND ORIGINAL!!!!!!
























:beer: j/k man. I love how the Mach's look. Shakers FTW! Ther Terminator is a mean looking SOB for sure though.

 

[ponygt65]

We all are raising good points about these two great cars. My point is, the Terminator is a better platform to start from as far as making the cars faster, dollar per dollar. Take $3500 and put it in the Mach and see how much HP that will get you. Now take the $3500 put it in the Terminator and see how much HP, (KB or Whipple upgrades) that will get you. No where close to the potential of the Terminator. Before you even started to get close to the HP level of the Terminator, the Mach would have to have forged internals, well there goes the $3500. Also, the Terminator came stock with an aluminum flywheel. I say this because a lot of the Mach guys pay extra for this upgrade....Let me put it this way, The Terminator could get to 600 plus rwhp a lot cheaper than the Mach could, because the Terminator already has all the good stuff to start with.....:banana:

I dont' disagree that it has a better starting point. YOu can't argue with how well ford did with that shortblock.

But LOTS has to be considered. IRS, vs. SR (drag racing or what have you), better tranny gears in teh mach, Lighter, that $3500 you speak of its enought to put the mach at ~450-470rwhp (pushing the limits I agree), but that's power acheived with the same boost level. Mach owners like the alum fw to reduce rotational mass, just like cobra guys like doing a SRA swap. When you REALLY get into the break down, both cars have their plusses and minuses. It jsut depends on what your over all goal and use for hte car is. I've outlined the differences in $$$ and really, to get the same power output and have it 'reliable' you'll only pay a tad more with the mach (as in $2k or so) when you consider the overall cost (car prices too). Plus, IMO, $$$ is the least, cause you can make anything fast if you have enough.

If anyone wants alot of power for little money outside of finance payments (or purchase) then the cobra is the way to go. $2-3k and you're at ~500rwhp.:beer:

 

[DR 305]

I dont' disagree that it has a better starting point. YOu can't argue with how well ford did with that shortblock.

But LOTS has to be considered. IRS, vs. SR (drag racing or what have you), better tranny gears in teh mach, Lighter, that $3500 you speak of its enought to put the mach at ~450-470rwhp (pushing the limits I agree), but that's power acheived with the same boost level. Mach owners like the alum fw to reduce rotational mass, just like cobra guys like doing a SRA swap. When you REALLY get into the break down, both cars have their plusses and minuses. It jsut depends on what your over all goal and use for hte car is. I've outlined the differences in $$$ and really, to get the same power output and have it 'reliable' you'll only pay a tad more with the mach (as in $2k or so) when you consider the overall cost (car prices too). Plus, IMO, $$$ is the least, cause you can make anything fast if you have enough.

If anyone wants alot of power for little money outside of finance payments (or purchase) then the cobra is the way to go. $2-3k and you're at ~500rwhp.:beer:

Good points..:beer: Both these cars are winners....

 

[Mach1USMC]

I know right. Same front and rear bumpers as 99-04 V6's and GT's is SOOOO TIGHT AND ORIGINAL!!!!!!
























:beer: j/k man. I love how the Mach's look. Shakers FTW! Ther Terminator is a mean looking SOB for sure though.

On the real- to me the Mach looks like a regular mustang GT with a shaker and some stickers.

 

[Mach1USMC]

I dont' disagree that it has a better starting point. YOu can't argue with how well ford did with that shortblock.

But LOTS has to be considered. IRS, vs. SR (drag racing or what have you), better tranny gears in teh mach, Lighter, that $3500 you speak of its enought to put the mach at ~450-470rwhp (pushing the limits I agree), but that's power acheived with the same boost level. Mach owners like the alum fw to reduce rotational mass, just like cobra guys like doing a SRA swap. When you REALLY get into the break down, both cars have their plusses and minuses. It jsut depends on what your over all goal and use for hte car is. I've outlined the differences in $$$ and really, to get the same power output and have it 'reliable' you'll only pay a tad more with the mach (as in $2k or so) when you consider the overall cost (car prices too). Plus, IMO, $$$ is the least, cause you can make anything fast if you have enough.

If anyone wants alot of power for little money outside of finance payments (or purchase) then the cobra is the way to go. $2-3k and you're at ~500rwhp.:beer:

Gonna have to say $3500 will get you nowhere remotely close to 475 rwhp in a Mach. The ONLY way that could happen is with nitrous and then you're definitely on borrowed time because you'd have to run @ least a 150 shot.

There is not a NEW off the shelf blower kit that you can purchase and have installed for $3500 that will get you 475 rwhp- it simply doesn't exist.

Now what you can do to get to 475rwhp (I priced this last week) is get a Stage II D1 Procharger and a Snowe performance meth kit installed and dyno tuned for $6500. THAT will get you close to 475 to the ground SAFELY but that's twice the $ you are talking about.

In contrast, I paid 2k for the bolt-ons and dyno tune to get my Cobra to 475rwhp. And I of course could have gone with an even smaller upper and bigger lower for a few hundred more and gotten VERY close to 500 rwhp. Not happening at all with a Mach- not for that kind of $.

 

[TR03Mach1]

On the real- to me the Mach looks like a regular mustang GT with a shaker and some stickers.

Exactly, that's because ALL 03/04 Mustang GT's came stock with a power dome hood, shaker scoop, front chin spoiler, Magnum 500 wheels, front grill delete, black rear deck spoiler, chrome rolled exhaust tips, modified c-pillars, lowered suspension, and of course those "stickers." :rollseyes

 

[TR03Mach1]

...Gonna have to say $3500 will get you nowhere remotely close to 475 rwhp in a Mach. The ONLY way that could happen is with nitrous and then you're definitely on borrowed time because you'd have to run @ least a 150 shot...

Whoa, I wouldn't say that. oke: I've seen it done for less, provided you have some patience and mechanical abilities beyond being able to change your oil! A friend of mine purchased a used (why does it have to be new?) Procharger P1SC for $2250 delivered to his door, did the installation himself, changing the unit to a draw-thru system, got the car dyno tuned at a well known shop by one of the best tuners in the country for about $600, and it's been running at around 8lbs. of boost with 469rwhp for several years now.

 

[Nineonesix]

Ive spent 1500 so far in performance mods on my car and that only put me at 303rwhp

Dyno tune--xcal 450+250
Exhaust---------500 (catless and mufflers, stock headers) (+500 more for changing the exhaust twice lol)
Intake spacer---140
CAI-------------160

 

[ponygt65]

Gonna have to say $3500 will get you nowhere remotely close to 475 rwhp in a Mach. The ONLY way that could happen is with nitrous and then you're definitely on borrowed time because you'd have to run @ least a 150 shot.

There is not a NEW off the shelf blower kit that you can purchase and have installed for $3500 that will get you 475 rwhp- it simply doesn't exist.

Now what you can do to get to 475rwhp (I priced this last week) is get a Stage II D1 Procharger and a Snowe performance meth kit installed and dyno tuned for $6500. THAT will get you close to 475 to the ground SAFELY but that's twice the $ you are talking about.

In contrast, I paid 2k for the bolt-ons and dyno tune to get my Cobra to 475rwhp. And I of course could have gone with an even smaller upper and bigger lower for a few hundred more and gotten VERY close to 500 rwhp. Not happening at all with a Mach- not for that kind of $.

He about summed up what i was going to say......................

Whoa, I wouldn't say that. oke: I've seen it done for less, provided you have some patience and mechanical abilities beyond being able to change your oil! A friend of mine purchased a used (why does it have to be new?) Procharger P1SC for $2250 delivered to his door, did the installation himself, changing the unit to a draw-thru system, got the car dyno tuned at a well known shop by one of the best tuners in the country for about $600, and it's been running at around 8lbs. of boost with 469rwhp for several years now.

Ive spent 1500 so far in performance mods on my car and that only put me at 303rwhp

Dyno tune--xcal 450+250
Exhaust---------500 (catless and mufflers, stock headers) (+500 more for changing the exhaust twice lol)
Intake spacer---140
CAI-------------160

Yeah, but that's ~30rwhp over stock....and you toss on the exhaust, tune, CAI on the cobra, and it's roughly ~40-50 over stock and that's FI.

IMO, both cars have nice gains for what you pay. But that's me. :shrug:

 

[DR 305]

Everybody is raising good points. But, last time I checked the Mach forums, it's the Mach guys buying/replacing their parts for the Terminator front clip, rear spoiler and side skirts, fold a way mirrors, not the other way around. What Mach guy wouldn't kill for a forged bottom end from the factory. Both great cars, but the Terminator is the winner for "What you pay for is what you get". :shrug:

 

[ponygt65]

Everybody is raising good points. But, last time I checked the Mach forums, it's the Mach guys buying/replacing their parts for the Terminator front clip, rear spoiler and side skirts, fold a way mirrors, not the other way around. What Mach guy wouldn't kill for a forged bottom end from the factory. Both great cars, but the Terminator is the winner for "What you pay for is what you get". :shrug:

I agree that every one has good points. I also agree that mach guys swap out a bid (mostly the front bumpers), but it's about as common as SRA swaps......ok ok..that's the only thing Cobra guys get from machs....oh and Auto swaps. LOL $$/swap, the cobra's have to spend more. LOL

ok ok..seriously, I owned both at the same time, and kept the mach over the cobra. I miss it....but I'd do the same all over. It comes down to personal preference even with the benefits of the short block. IMHO.:beer:

 

[Mach1USMC]

Whoa, I wouldn't say that. oke: I've seen it done for less, provided you have some patience and mechanical abilities beyond being able to change your oil! A friend of mine purchased a used (why does it have to be new?) Procharger P1SC for $2250 delivered to his door, did the installation himself, changing the unit to a draw-thru system, got the car dyno tuned at a well known shop by one of the best tuners in the country for about $600, and it's been running at around 8lbs. of boost with 469rwhp for several years now.

1.) The advantages of buying new gear is if it's messed up or missing items it's fixed with a phone call. AND it's often warrantied. You won't get that buying from Citizen X more often than not- I'm speaking from experience.

2.) By and large MOST people on this board and just about every other board don't have the mechanical know how or tools to do a blower/turbo install.

3.) 469 RWHP on a P1? He must have a factory freak, nitrous or a TON of supporting mods. I'm not saying he doesn't have 469 RWHP but there is something misssing here.

4.) $1200 for install and dyno tune (5300 for blower kit and snowe meth kit +1200 for install and tune)) is a GREAT deal and IMO is well worth the piece of mind of getting it done correctly the first time by mechanics that do this sort of thing all the time. My mechanical expertise is limited to brakes, and basic tune up type stuff. I think I could probably figure it out but I want to be able to drive my car after a few days- not have it sit on jackstands in my garage for weeks while I slowly put the thing together.

5.) Glad your buddy did it...good on him. But I'd say that the majority of enthusiasts out there would end up having to pay for outside help either from the start or in the middle of said project when they get in over their head.

 

[Mach1USMC]

I agree that every one has good points. I also agree that mach guys swap out a bid (mostly the front bumpers), but it's about as common as SRA swaps......ok ok..that's the only thing Cobra guys get from machs....oh and Auto swaps. LOL $$/swap, the cobra's have to spend more. LOL

ok ok..seriously, I owned both at the same time, and kept the mach over the cobra. I miss it....but I'd do the same all over. It comes down to personal preference even with the benefits of the short block. IMHO.:beer:

Yup- I swapped out for a Cobra front bumper cover and Saleen Sideskirts.
....about to go wingless when I get back from the Stan:banana:

Exactly, that's because ALL 03/04 Mustang GT's came stock with a power dome hood, shaker scoop, front chin spoiler, Magnum 500 wheels, front grill delete, black rear deck spoiler, chrome rolled exhaust tips, modified c-pillars, lowered suspension, and of course those "stickers." :rollseyes

As far as the wing goes unless you have a lighter color car you can't even tell. Most GT's I've seen already have the grill delete. And besides someone who is REALLY looking no one is going to notice rolled exhaust tips. And wheels? Please- who keeps original wheels anyways?

When you boil it all down the BIG difference is the Shaker and badging/stickers as far as appearance goes.

 

[holzmach]

with a mach you do need to upgrade alot of things to make 475+hp, but i dont think that is bad because everything is replaced and new. putting those numbers out of a cobra with 30-40K miles would make me feel uneasy. even 450 hp out of one would make me feel uncomfy because you think of all the things it probly already went through. when you rebuild everything from the back to the front on a mach, you know upping the jets or the boost is fine. fast power with a cobra is great, but when a guy like me plans on having the car for the long haul, replacing everthing is not bad, because the cobra would sometime need it to. pushing 500-+hp out of a old engine that is stock is dumb, remeber cobras are not 2 and 3 year old teens anymore, they are getting up there in age. before you know it, they will be 10 years old and with 100-150hp over stock , it is not if, but when they need the rebuild. you cant expect rings,seals,bearings ect... to last forever.

most people that are building supras are putting the extra $ in them and redoing everything. before you did not have to do this, but with age this is the case. the same thing will happen with the cobra, i think at some point and time it will not matter as much if it is a mach or cobra because they both will be redone before big mods. in a few years people may pic a blown forged mach over a cobra because they know that the mach internals are newer, but here and now that is not the case.

 

[ponygt65]

1.) The advantages of buying new gear is if it's messed up or missing items it's fixed with a phone call. AND it's often warrantied. You won't get that buying from Citizen X more often than not- I'm speaking from experience.

2.) By and large MOST people on this board and just about every other board don't have the mechanical know how or tools to do a blower/turbo install.

3.) 469 RWHP on a P1? He must have a factory freak, nitrous or a TON of supporting mods. I'm not saying he doesn't have 469 RWHP but there is something misssing here.

4.) $1200 for install and dyno tune (5300 for blower kit and snowe meth kit +1200 for install and tune)) is a GREAT deal and IMO is well worth the piece of mind of getting it done correctly the first time by mechanics that do this sort of thing all the time. My mechanical expertise is limited to brakes, and basic tune up type stuff. I think I could probably figure it out but I want to be able to drive my car after a few days- not have it sit on jackstands in my garage for weeks while I slowly put the thing together.

5.) Glad your buddy did it...good on him. But I'd say that the majority of enthusiasts out there would end up having to pay for outside help either from the start or in the middle of said project when they get in over their head.

470rwhp on a P1SC is VERY obtainable.

Meth kit's are over rated and not really necessary, therefore, shouldn't really be involved in your comparison, IMHO.

Installing an ATi kit isn't that hard. Simply time consuming. THat's the only reason why I didn't do it myself. It's almost literally ratchet and screw driver. So, yes, it's very easy to do. People just get intimidated or dont' have the time (like me) and use an outside shop.

I mean no offense, but it appears you could use a little more research on FI'ing a mach. I know you have one, and I know you've looked into, but it seems looking into it a tad more could help.

We all have our own opinions and reasons for those opinions. As mentioned a few times in here, we all have good points. OP just have to research and see what he wants. :beer:

 

[Mach1USMC]

470rwhp on a P1SC is VERY obtainable.

Meth kit's are over rated and not really necessary, therefore, shouldn't really be involved in your comparison, IMHO.

Installing an ATi kit isn't that hard. Simply time consuming. THat's the only reason why I didn't do it myself. It's almost literally ratchet and screw driver. So, yes, it's very easy to do. People just get intimidated or dont' have the time (like me) and use an outside shop.

I mean no offense, but it appears you could use a little more research on FI'ing a mach. I know you have one, and I know you've looked into, but it seems looking into it a tad more could help.

We all have our own opinions and reasons for those opinions. As mentioned a few times in here, we all have good points. OP just have to research and see what he wants. :beer:

Guess the P1 is a lot stronger than I thought. In talking to various venders- ie superchargersonline, superchargers4less and RPM they all suggested the better application in going north of 450 rwhp is the D1. the P1 was going to be limited around those levels.

Also like you TIME to me is a huge factor. Now that I have the Camaro I might look into taking the Mach off the streets and see about doing a blower kit myself. But 1200 for an install is not a bad deal. The meth from all the people I've talked to that use it swear by it. More than anything it's a cheap insurance policy. Most kits with install are less than $400- a blown motor can be 4k.

I do love my Mach or I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago. Hence the reason I gradually upgrade it. I put the drilled / slotted rotors on the back today.....now they match the front:rockon:...I still have a few minor adjustments to make to the Camaro as well so we'll see how it goes. I only need about another 2k to get her to low 5XX. Then I'll go back to the Mach. Before I go FI on the Mach I am looking @ longtubes, coilpacks, maybe some 4.30's, and coilovers. I guess I just want to see how far I can take her before I go FI......hoping for 330-340. Then built shortblock, T56 and either a D1 or a Hellion. THEN I'll have the Mach of my dreams. But that's a few yrs off I think. So many projects- so little time.

 

[EVO-lution]

this is the way I see it. U buy a Cobra in GOOD condition with lower miles for $20K-$25K. you spend $2K to get it to around 450-475hp. Why Not just spend the $11-$13K(granted the way the economy is) for a mach and whatever you saved over a Cobra use that towards a built bottom end? :shrug:

Each car will have its pro's and con's as far as price and then the amount of power:dollar ratio you can squeeze outta it. I mean hands down the Cobra will make more power from the factory with light mods than the mach.

 

[TR03Mach1]

Yup- I swapped out for a Cobra front bumper cover and Saleen Sideskirts.
....about to go wingless when I get back from the Stan:banana:



As far as the wing goes unless you have a lighter color car you can't even tell. Most GT's I've seen already have the grill delete. And besides someone who is REALLY looking no one is going to notice rolled exhaust tips. And wheels? Please- who keeps original wheels anyways?

When you boil it all down the BIG difference is the Shaker and badging/stickers as far as appearance goes.

Oh that's right, because the grill delete LOOKS better, the GT owners copied it! If you remove the fender badges, in profile a Cobra looks identical to a V6! A large number of Mach 1's still have the original wheels, and even if they don't, they will have a variation of the originals in either all chrome, machined, or black chrome. Trust me, I've entered my car in enough car shows over the past 6+ years, people notice that it's not your run of the mill Mustang V6 or GT. Even when it's parked in a sea of Cobras, Saleens, and Roushes, people notice and comment on it favorably over the others.