Tracking an 03-04 Cobra

[BlackPearlZ]

Sorry if this is a topic that has beaten to death. I'm new to the cobra world, and tried searching around and didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

My questions are, how are these cars as an occasional HPDE car. I did read that they run pretty hot, and that concerns me living in Florida. How common is it for these cars to go into limp mode due to heat. I don't want to be stuck with a car that can't even finish a 20 minute session.

One of the cars I'm considering does has a heat exchanger and killer chiller, will that be enough to combat the heat? I did read in the FAQ about the Tiger racing hood I think it was. That could be a potential upgrade.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some questions. Mainly, I'm just wanting to know if this platform is going to meet my needs as an occasional HPDE car and occasional dd.

 

[Sirl]

Hello there,
I cant answer your questions since I dont have a Termi, but, I am in Ft. Lauderdale, and track my car often.

I would encourage you to join a site called "Track Weekend dot com"

There, you will find all the local clubs and track days on one calendar.

We do have a few termis, and they all run great. But not sure of the mods.

If you have any questions about the local tracks/scene, dont hesitate to pm me.

~Mitch

 

[N/Angel]

I have a custom built Cobra engine in my GT and what made the biggest difference for cooling was an external oil cooler, here's a pic:

I also run the trueforged intercooler tank, a Gords heat exchanger with fans, the large LFP race radiator and no thermostat.
doing extended WOT runs in 5th and 6th gear on the German Autobahn my charge temp stays below 150 degrees.

 

[TroyV]

I tracked my 03 for four years putting roughly 1k track miles on the car per year. As a casual HPDE car the 03-04 cars are okay, but, assuming the car is stock with perhaps a pulley, you need to follow the rules. You cannot push the car for more than 5-6 laps at a time without things getting too hot. This is pretty much so in any weather. My personal rule was four laps hot, then one to two laps cold. I followed that rule and was fine until one day when I was chasing another car around and pushed the car really hard for 6-7 laps. Then came in and was selected first group for the Time Trial session. The car didn’t really have any time to cool off, and I pushed the car extra hard for 3 more laps and I lifted a head in the process. It was almost worth it, as I scored second in class and 10th over all at the event, which considering the array of hardware stacked against me in the TT, was an accomplishment. I got the car home and had to replace the head gaskets.

The moral of the story is. Unless you plan to mod the car like some of the more experienced folks have on here, do your best to keep the car on street rubber and as close to stock power as possible. Spend your money and effort on going to events and keeping your brakes in tip top shape. Take it into account that if you push the car very hard for an extended period of time, that the car will respond poorly to it……especially high gear/high load situations…

Best of luck, and above all else…..have fun.

 

[WPBcobra]

I tracked a 03 for about a year and half down in FL. I hit limp mode once or twice in the middle of summer time but other wise car ran great. The mods i had was 170 thousandths, boxed in the radiator, x-pipe, cat back, 2.8 pully and a tune.

 

[BlackPearlZ]

Thanks for the information guys. So in your opinion, picking up a car that has a 2.6l kenne bell on it wouldn't be the best idea? Also, what kind of oil temps do you guys normally see in these motors under track conditions? I know that is strongly dependent on ambient conditions and mods, but I just want a general idea of how hot these cars actually run.

Just to add, I'm probably going to do no more than 3 HPDE's per year.

 

[N/Angel]

mine has seen a max of 85 degrees celcius when going WOT and a max of 115 degrees celcius on a very hot day stuck in traffic (need to add a fan to the oil cooler).

 

[BlackPearlZ]

That's actually pretty low. I'm assuming you built your own oil cooler and not using a stock cobra unit right? Any idea how temps would differ with an oem Cobra core doing the cooling?

Edit: Just noticed that the cobra oil cooler isn't actually an air to air cooler by a coolant bypass through the oil filter housing. So I guess an air to air would probably help out a lot.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

I've done about 6 days in my Cobra over the past year. Upper pulley only, Resiche thermostat, LFP heat exchanger, and Fuidyne radiator.

My coolant temps usually stay around 190-210 depending on ambient temp. My biggest problem is the charge temps. On warm days they will start go get up to 130 and above. I think the biggest issue is returning to the pits then shutting down allows the blower cooling system to heat soak. It will keep rising as the car sits, then it is already hot when I line up to get back on.

I think fans on the H/E really would help to cool it down when back in the pits before shutting down. I plan to box up the H/E and rad next to try and get more air through them when at speed.

 

[BlackPearlZ]

Good info guys. So here is what I'm thinking so far,

-Keep the power conservative
-Add an air to air oil cooler
-Box in the radiator and H/E
-Meth injection, maybe a 50/50 mix to combat the iat's and prevent knock
-Lower Temp T-stat
-Replace coolant with Water and Water Wetter

Anything else you guys thing would be a good idea? Also, I'd still like some input on how a larger blower would fair on the track. Theoretically iat's should be lower because it is more efficient, but more power brings more heat.

And thanks for all the good responses. I'm used to a BMW forum were you get flamed for even thinking about asking a question. This is nice.

 

[N/Angel]

That's actually pretty low. I'm assuming you built your own oil cooler and not using a stock cobra unit right? Any idea how temps would differ with an oem Cobra core doing the cooling?

Edit: Just noticed that the cobra oil cooler isn't actually an air to air cooler by a coolant bypass through the oil filter housing. So I guess an air to air would probably help out a lot.

see my pic above, 3rd post, that's my custom air to air oil cooler. I have never tried the oem cooler so I can't tell you about temps to compare unfortunately.

Good info guys. So here is what I'm thinking so far,

-Keep the power conservative
-Add an air to air oil cooler
-Box in the radiator and H/E
-Meth injection, maybe a 50/50 mix to combat the iat's and prevent knock
-Lower Temp T-stat
-Replace coolant with Water and Water Wetter

Anything else you guys thing would be a good idea? Also, I'd still like some input on how a larger blower would fair on the track. Theoretically iat's should be lower because it is more efficient, but more power brings more heat.

And thanks for all the good responses. I'm used to a BMW forum were you get flamed for even thinking about asking a question. This is nice.

I would only use Meth injection after the blower for cooling.
We do see a lot of GT500s and other blower setup cars with the Meth before the blower and it doesn't help and in some cases even makes things worse because of wierd installation spots or too much liquid and similar cases.
however, as an example, we recently had an SLR racecar in the shop with the Meth after the blower and even with 800hp this thing was cool and running strong against load on the dyno.
I'm hoping to find time this winter to look into a setup like this for my car as I eventually want to upgrade the blower but don't want to give up my fairly reasonable charge temps I have now while going crazy on track or Autobahn.

btw, this is just my personal opinion based on facts we see on our dyno or on the Autobahn which is like a big track since theres' no speed limit in many places. the possibility of going 120km WOT straight does make it a very challenging job to keep engines alive with good tunes and upgraded cooling mods.

 

[wheelhopper]

I ran my Terminator for a few years. I never hit limp mode. I ran it fairly hard, but not as hard as I do my current car. My car made and even 500rwhp, in track tune, and 529rwhp in street tune.

I had few things done to help
ported blower
aftermarket HE
custom OT tune(the biggest help)

The tune pulled some timing and added fuel to help keep temps in check.

For an occasional OT car the Terminator is great fun. If you ever decide to do any type of racing or wheel to wheel competition it is not the best choice. You would be up against heavily modded WRXs, Evos, and Vettes with a mostly stock Terminator. That is why I switched to my '90 GT Mustang for TT.

 

[MGC]

all good advice, here is also a link to an old thread I made and it covers some good stuff that may be of use to you.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/open-track-racing-203/718588-new-ot.html

as for your blower ?, I believe jimmysidecarr has a whipple on his Terminator and it does well, I stuck with an eaton because I didn't want to change what is working for me, car has been stone cold reliable so I just keep it that way. If I were you, I wouldn't let a cobra with a bigger blower make or break the deal, you will just have to (likely) put a bigger upper pulley on it (bring the boost down) and have a specific open track tune that takes some timing out to keep temps down. I wouldn't run meth. No need if you're not running a lot of boost or timing.

 

[BlackPearlZ]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll post if this deal ends up going through.

 

[gfcobra04]

The 03-04 cobras with the stock pulley will be ok. In the Texas summer I would have to use my heater to help out & that was with the stock pulley.

If you up grade your power at all, pulleys or upgraded SC, you will have overheating issues. The problem is the oil cooler. You basically have an oil heater. The stock oil cooler is cooled with radiator fluid.

There is a way round this if you remove the stock cooler. Evans made a kit to upgrade the cooling system for the 03-04 cobras per below:
View attachment 7786
I purchased the Evans kit & a remote oil cooler plus fan. This is the only way to cure the 03-04 cobra overheating issues. I still have the kit & all the hardware, if anybody is interested, PM me. Andy M on here has one of the cars that Evans worked with to make this kit.
Gary

 

[racebronco2]

1. The 03-04 cobras with the stock pulley will be ok. In the Texas summer I would have to use my heater to help out & that was with the stock pulley.

2. If you up grade your power at all, pulleys or upgraded SC, you will have overheating issues. The problem is the oil cooler. You basically have an oil heater. The stock oil cooler is cooled with radiator fluid.

3. There is a way round this if you remove the stock cooler. Evans made a kit to upgrade the cooling system for the 03-04 cobras per below:
View attachment 7786
4. I purchased the Evans kit & a remote oil cooler plus fan. This is the only way to cure the 03-04 cobra overheating issues. I still have the kit & all the hardware, if anybody is interested, PM me. Andy M on here has one of the cars that Evans worked with to make this kit.
Gary

1. Not true. Stock cobra's will go into limp mode in the summer heat with a good driver.

2. True but not in the cold months.

3. Not true. There are three of us that run the evans kit and all of us had cooling issues. Our hp levels were between 430rwhp and 500rwhp.

4. Two of us have the fans on the oil coolers. The evans kit did allow us to run longer before we went into limp mode but it is no fun having to do heat management just as you passed that ZO6. Do you have any proof to back-up your claims the evans will cure your overheating issues.

The only proven way to keep your engine running cool is to get a real heat extractor hood similar to my design or tiger racing. Do a search under my screen name and you will find posts with datalogs while i was chasing a ZO6 in temps as high as 107* and engine temps rose to about 230*.

5.

 

[byron m]

03 DSG snake I noticed my cobra doing the same thing,getting hotter stopped so I hot wired the intercooler pump with inline switch and put a fan in front of heat exchanger so water wasn't getting hot sitting in the motor.Made a big differance,if someone had a small generator and use a bigger 120Volt fan it's even better.Just my 2 cents worth.We were using a heat gun to see how hot the water was comming from motor after 10min's & it was 140F+,turn on pump and good fan and back to air temp. in 2 min's.Generator and dyno fan,you could watch the motor water temps drop the water from intercooler was cooling so fast.

 

[-The-Terminator]

some good info on here.

 

[lethal04]

JPC racing makes a kit similar to this one, i used a bigger pump thow, this thing flows so much water it really doesn't give it a chance to heat up. 170 degree thermostat would help to. Heat is a killer.

 

[jbp99cobra]

Speaking of, I have a Gords HE w/ dual fans collecting dust if you are interested.