Tried everything STILL shifts BAD

[dirtydave289]

LFP quadrant/UPR firewall adjuster/Centerforce DFX/stock cable
EDIT - also have a tri-ax, don't know how long it's been on the car but could it cause the type of issue I describe? Fix for it?

Had an adjustable cable..didn't do anything for me but snap
I've done the "antivenom" mod and it seemed to help but I might have just wanted it to help because now I'm back to crap shifting
Tried all kinds of fluids..none seem any different than others.

WTF do I have to do to make this car shift at high RPMs? It feels like a wall before it will go into gear, if it even goes into the next gear.

1st to 2nd is usually ok, 2nd to 3rd forget it, 3rd to 4th is just really slow because I have to smash into the 'wall' before 4th, then am able to push it in with some force.

Tried messing with my firewall adjuster over and over but can't get it to help any for up top shifting.

I'm at wits end with this thing

 

[Root1022]

Hate to say it but have you thought about getting a T56 Magnum? Very expensive but an amazing tranny

 

[dirtydave289]

Never really thought about it.

What would cause my T56 to be so shitty?

Up to 4-5ish grand its ok, but anything over 5 and it hates shifting.
None of my friends with T56's have issues like me.

 

[sprstr1000]

I was havin the same issue and I installed a mcleod dual disk RST and my high rpm shifting is night and day,but at idle goin into first or especially reverse gotta push threw the wall.......welcome trade LOL

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

T56 Magnum will solve all your problems..

 

[jrgoffin]

Sounds like the teeth on some of your sliders might be chewed up. That will make it hard to pull in to gear.

 

[GTBill]

^^^^+1, sounds like syncros

 

[jrgoffin]

In the T-56, the 1-2 shift is done by one clutch fork on one slider, so it sounds like that is OK. The 3-4 shift (or also going in to 3rd from 2nd) would tell me that you are definitely having issues with the 3-4 slider/synchronizer assembly. Usually it is the clutch teeth that get chewed up, but could be trashed blocking rings, broken pads on the shift forks, or a handful of other things. In any case, you are possibly going to have to yank it and get in there and replace parts. You can download a service manual from Tremec and at least look through some of the diagnostic stuff to get somewhat of an idea. Hope that helps you out!

TTC: Product Literature Manuals

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Maybe a dumb question but have you adjusted the cable out to here it has just alittle play in it. I had the same problem and tried everything and then found out that the cable wasnt adjusted right :bash:

 

[dirtydave289]

I have tried adjusting it a few times. Either I just suck and can't get it right (good possibility lol) or it's not the problem. I will try messing with it again.

The thing is that sometimes it will shift fine, other times it will give me hell. Always seems to give me hell at the track..but messing around on the street and it's just fine.

Might sound stupid but when I put fluid in (synchromesh) i had it up on ramps and jacked up on one side. Poured fluid in from the shifer area and just used 3 bottles and about 3/4 of the last one. Some places I see say the T56 needs 4.1qt. If I didn't put in enough would it cause problems like this?

 

[jrgoffin]

When you fill the transmission, it needs to be level, otherwise you won't get it right. But since you used 3-3/4 quarts, that is pretty close and probably not your issue.

It is giving you problems at the track due to the higher RPM's you are trying to shift at. If the 3-4 slider is having issues (i.e., trashed blocking rings, worn out clutch teeth, etc.) it will be even more evident at the higher RPM's since the slider is not mating up to the gear. Really sounds like you need to get the box apart and have some work done.

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

the trans holds alittle under 4 quarts. like 3.8 or so, so your prolly good.

 

[03dsgcobranc]

it's the Centerforce clutch

 

[dirtydave289]

I mean i shift at high rpm's on the street/highway at times too and it seems to be ok sometimes then will randomly be crap again.

when i was asking for advice a different time a lot of people told me it was the clutch, so I kind of figured I'll deal with it til it needs to be replaced but my friend just got the same clutch (however its in a mach 1) and his shifts the exact same as when he had the stock clutch.

 

[billgtx]

I'm having the same issue. Debating right now about whether or not to have work done the T56 or save that money for the Magnum. Going today to have a shop give it a seat of the pants diagnostic. Funny thing is the previous owner had the transmission rebuilt probably just a few thousand miles ago. Ugh.

 

[cotchnobra]

sounds like its time for a trans rebuild. I talked with a guy at thegearbox.com when buying my parts for rebuild and along with the master rebuild kit he suggested to me that I put in a steel 3-4 shift fork and billet 3-4 keys. Also for T-56 parts there isnt many suppliers. the 2 I have found are The Gear Box and D&D Performance. the gear box was very knowlegable and helpfull and the price were reasonable to.

 

[Savn4Mods]

it's the Centerforce clutch

I also agree that this clutch may be PART of your problem. The Centerforce clutches have the counter weights around the pressure plate fingers. This is EXCELLENT for increasing the clamping force on the clutch disk.

As the engine spins faster, these weights are slung outward from the center of the pressure plate due to the centrifugal forces. Therefore, this also pulls the pressure plate fingers outward, which increases the clamping force on the clutch disk. The faster it spins, the more clamping force it adds.

Now, the only problem with that is YOU the driver have to overcome some of that added force by means of the clutch pedal. If the clutch is already stiff at idle, these weights just adds insult to injury at high RPMs.

Also, if you have a clutch control component (cable, dry TOB retainer, pedal, dry pivot ball, etc...)that is binding for any reason, and you have a quick release quadrant which "speeds up" the cable pull (due to its more arched shape) more so than the stock quadrants shape does, you can see how the effects here can add up to the force needed as well.

If it were mine, to start with I would jack it up and have someone press the clutch in all the way and see if I could get a screw driver and turn the clutch disk through the hole in the bell housing (with the clutch fork cover removed). It shouldn't drag much if at all. This will confirm that your clutch is indeed fully disengaging and that you are at least in the ball park with your cable adjustment (remember with the clutch pushed in, ANY friction with the flywheel or pressure plate means it will take that much more time for the input shaft on the trans to stop).

Next, I would remove the clutch cable from the clutch fork and move all of the controls by hand to see if anything it binding. Move the clutch fork (as much as possible on the TOB retainer), pedal, etc...

You have to remember that when you are power shifting, you typically don't get the clutch all the way to the floor before you start your shift. At least I don't. With that being said, a stiff clutch pedal immediately puts you at a disadvantage. It's like the small police officer who tries to break down the neighbors door and just bounces off.

The point is, if your clutch isn't releasing, your transmission will never slow down enough for your synchronizers to allow for the gear change and if your clutch IS releasing, but it takes a whole lot of effort to push the pedal down, you may not have the leg for that split second it takes to grab the next gear. It's a game of timing too.

Sorry for the long winded post, but maybe from all the rambling you can use something.

 

[billgtx]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but since I'm having the same issue as the OP I didn't want to start a new thread. I apologize in advance if I've violated forum etiquette.

Looking for some guidance.

Car: 2004 Whippled Cobra, FTBR built IRS. FLSFC. Other mods. 580+HP, 500+TQ.

Equipment: I have an MGW orange handle shifter, Spec Stage 3+ clutch, Fiore firewall adjuster and quadrant, OEM clutch cable (~1500 miles) and the LDC free play mod. Also did the Anti-venom mod. Running Dexron III from Advance in the trans. It was running RP SynchroMax when I got the car 7 weeks ago.

Symptoms:
At idle, sitting at a light, I can depress the clutch pedal and row through the gears with ease. As soon as the car is moving, shifting into gear becomes significantly harder. I can't tell if any grinding is occurring. Doesn't sound like it to me, but then again, I'm not very experienced with manual transmissions.

Under normal operation, this isn't a big deal. As RPMs or acceleration increases, it becomes more difficult to shift into gear. And this is any gear. 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, doesn't matter. At WOT / 6000 RPM it's impossible to do 2nd to 3rd hard. 1st to 2nd is hard, but not impossible. Haven't tried 3rd to 4th at that speed.

I've done some additional testing. Under normal operation, I can take the car out of gear and lightly press the shifter against the next gear. After about a second, with little pressure it will slide into gear.

Given all that I have a few questions.

1. I've had a couple of techs tell me they think it's a shimming issue. One is an owner of a shop who's worked on Mustangs for nearly (or maybe more) 20 years. Another is a life long shade tree mechanic (and buddy) who has built many engines and transmissions over his 30+ years working on cars.

So - since this is happening in all of the gears - are these symptoms consistent with an improperly shimmed T-56?

2. Does it make sense to only reshim the transmission? Or do I need to be prepared to replace other parts? Looking at the parts list on thegearbox, which parts would you recommend getting?

3. When I depress the clutch pedal and put the car in gear, the car does not try to move. In fact, the pedal has to come off the floor about 2+ inches before the car starts to move. Is this an indication the clutch is fully disengaged when the pedal is fully depressed? If not, could you please explain how the clutch can not be fully disengaged, but the car doesn't try to move? As a non-mechanic this intrigues me.

4. Is it possible (or probable) that the T56 with my configuration can ever shift smoothly (i.e., without blocking?)

5. How much would you spend on diagnosing and trying to fix this problem before considering the T56 Magnum? I'm thinking I'd be willing to spend up to about $800 before I start seriously considering the upgrade. Is this reasonable?

6. Given the post above by Savn4Mods, would it make sense to drop down to a Spec Stage 2 or 2+ clutch?

I know this problem has been beat around a lot. I've read through several pages of posts on this forum and other T56 car forums. And one thing is for sure - no 2 cars are setup the same. What works for some doesn't for others.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated!!!

- Bill

 

[Savn4Mods]

Bill,

Almost everything you described tells me that the input shaft to the transmission is not slowing quickly enough when you press the clutch.

The fact that you can apply light pressure toward the next gear and it goes in easy after about a second of having the clutch pressed confirms that to me.

The transmission input shaft has to be decoupled from the flywheel (this is the job of the clutch), then this should cause the input shaft to slow down before the sychronizers or blocker rings will allow you to change gears.

You also stated that it gets worse with RPM. This is because it now takes that much more time for the input shaft to slow down from the added RPM.

Also, you said your clutch starts to engage about 2 inches off the floor. So if you think about it, that means you really probably have to get somewhere near that same point before your clutch is really disengaged fully. And your input shaft cannot stop or slow until this happens.

Your hand pulls the shifter toward the next gear at the same time you press the clutch. Now, if your clutch is not fully disengaged until you get near the floor then the input shaft won't be slowed enough by the time your hand gets the shifter to the next gear. If this happens, the tranny will say "no way jose" and you get that brick wall feeling.

In my opinion, all the signs point to the fact that you have a cable adjustment issue. Try unscrewing the firewall adjuster and try to get the engage/disengage point of the clutch pedal higher off the floor.

Hope this helps!

 

[billgtx]

Thanks Savn4Mods,

Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until this weekend to adjust the cable. I have the MM cable height adjuster kit on the clutch and the firewall adjuster is turned as far as it will go. I'll have to remove the kit before I can adjust the cable any further.

(Remembering I'm not a mechanic) Help me understand what's going on.

When I depress the clutch pedal, the input shaft disengages from the engine and begins slowing down. How much does it need to slow down before the next gear can be engaged smoothly?

Can I test this theory? What if I depress the clutch, pull the gear into neutral, wait a second, then try to hit the next gear? Should that be smooth?

One other test I did today was get cruising in 4th (about 40 - 45 MPH), depress the clutch, pull the shifter out of 4th then try to put it back into 4th. Not smooth. Tried this multiple times.

Going back to the "input shaft has to have time to slow down" concept - does this mean the T56 can not be shifted fast without experiencing "the wall?" In other words, do I have unrealistic expectations of this transmission? I read many folks on the forums commenting about how their transmission shifts like butter even at WOT. Just trying to figure out how to get mine to that point.

Again - thanks for the feedback!! I'll try it out Saturday. Or possibly Friday if I can get to it right after work.

- Bill