Truth about 5w20 oil and why SVT says no synoils

[Cobra'03]

Originally posted by STAMPEDE3
This is why they tell you not to use synthetic, they figure if you can afford a cobra and the insurance on it then you either have a white collar job and won't subject yourself to getting dirty or you just flat out believe them. Either way, more sales for the parts dept. and service. All oils on the shelf must meet the same Gov. set API codes. All conventional oils are so close to the same they put different additives so they can tell them apart. My dad retired from a refinery and Two of my brothers work for Exxon/Mobil, every chemist and lab tech at the refinery use Mobil1. Also, as far as weight, 5w30, 10w30 that is all temp. related and depends on climate, unless something changed scince the last time I read a owners manual.

Some misinformation here -

1) There is no such thing as "govt set API codes". The API STANDARDS are entirely voluntary.
2) "All conventional oils are so close to the same they put different additives so they can tell them apart. " Not true - the quality opf the base stocks varies, and I assure you, the tribologists do not formulate additives to tell them apart.

 

[Cobra'03]

Originally posted by Daffy
Question on ring sealing, if sealing stops when synth is introduced then what's the deal with cars like the viper & the vette that are delivered with zero miles and synth from the factory? Do they have different kinds of ring technology that don't require seating in this fashion?

thanks.

No, as I wrote several times in this thread, it only delays the ring seating, not stops it - SVT phone guys are absolutely full of air on this point.

Mercedes, Aston-Martin, Corvette, Viper, Cobra R, etc. all came with synoil from day one.

The low friction/pressure rings used today have made this much less an issue than before, but it is still an issue, which is why I agree with Davidmax that the prudent thing to do is to wait a few hundred miles before considering syn switchover.

SVT says no break-in required, but vary the engine speed for first 1000 miles - isn't that precisely what a break-in is??

 

[WorldTour]

I like how you bash the SVT guys, yet you yourself have admitted that you never have, nor will call them.

 

[4Fs]

Quote:"Question on ring sealing, if sealing stops when synth is introduced then what's the deal with cars like the viper & the vette that are delivered with zero miles and synth from the factory? Do they have different kinds of ring technology that don't require seating in this fashion?"

The easy answer is ...... because they were engineered for it!

The truth is even so their rings don't seat worth a damn. Go to the Corvette forum and ask them. It is one of their favorite topics. They run rich and sling oil for 20, - 30,000 miles. And "never" truly seat. They bitch a lot and live with it.

This has all been said before so briefly. SVT and my Service Manager said 3,000 miles on the stock stuff then do what you want. They HAVE TO RECOMEND the company line. They are company guys! What do you expect? You have to ask the question correctly to get the answer you want. i.e. 5W-30 is fine, Synthetics are fine (after 3,000mi. )

In my humble opinion from what I've been told; We've bought their flagship car for big bucks. They have major intrest in taking care of us. If an engine goes south and they open the drain plug and something looking like motor oil in serviceable condition comes out, they are not going to say boo.

I did stock for 3,000 miles.
Motorcraft synblend 5W-20 for the winter.
When I find the Mobil 1 5W-20 I' use it. If not I'd use their 5W-30 next change,

We'er all big boys. Pays your money and takes your pick.

 

[Snoker]

Remember, many of the people you speak to at SVT on the telephone are Ford contract employees. The need to toe the factory line to maintain good standing.

 

[XFIRECHIEF]

Have used AMSOIL since 1978. Never had any problems, never. Understand other synthetics are trying to be as good as AMSOIL, hope they keep trying. Check out www.amsoil.com.
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by 4Fs
Quote:"Question on ring sealing, if sealing stops when synth is introduced then what's the deal with cars like the viper & the vette that are delivered with zero miles and synth from the factory? Do they have different kinds of ring technology that don't require seating in this fashion?"

The easy answer is ...... because they were engineered for it!

I asked this question on page one (maybe it was two), what is done different to an engine so rings seat with synthetic oil? Anyone know?

The truth is even so their rings don't seat worth a damn. Go to the Corvette forum and ask them. It is one of their favorite topics. They run rich and sling oil for 20, - 30,000 miles. And "never" truly seat. They bitch a lot and live with it.

So you don't think GM can "engineer" their engines to break-in on synthetic oil? If the fix was that easy (switching to dyno oil from the factory) don't ya think they would do it instead of tearing engines down under warranty to replace rings? As I understand GM is having oil consumption problems with their 5.3's and/or 6.0L engines also, which do not come with synthetic.

This has all been said before so briefly. SVT and my Service Manager said 3,000 miles on the stock stuff then do what you want. They HAVE TO RECOMEND the company line. They are company guys! What do you expect? You have to ask the question correctly to get the answer you want. i.e. 5W-30 is fine, Synthetics are fine (after 3,000mi. )

In my humble opinion from what I've been told; We've bought their flagship car for big bucks. They have major intrest in taking care of us. If an engine goes south and they open the drain plug and something looking like motor oil in serviceable condition comes out, they are not going to say boo.

I did stock for 3,000 miles.
Motorcraft synblend 5W-20 for the winter.
When I find the Mobil 1 5W-20 I' use it. If not I'd use their 5W-30 next change,

We'er all big boys. Pays your money and takes your pick.

I agree!!:beer:

 

[Cobra'03]

Originally posted by WorldTour
I like how you bash the SVT guys, yet you yourself have admitted that you never have, nor will call them.

What is inconsistent with that? It is my policy to not suffer an idiot.

I have never called Hillary Clinton either, but have seen enough of her 2nd hand to make a pretty good decision that not calling her will do no harm to my well being.
:??:

 

[lethal]

Well, as silly as I am, I prefer to believe Cobra`03. If anyone has spent time on this board, you'll find his comments are for the information and simply based on rigorous testing or opinions from his extensive engineering career. I'm an expert, I'm a computer engineer and people come to me for answers and I'm paid well for it. Here is an expert and he's offering free advice... and I'll take it. I'm not saying people cannot disagree, but really, what is the back ground of the people at SVT? Do they have any sort of training or are they reading the company line?

I just don't see why anyone would consider advice from someone who is quite knowledgeable as completely bogus and not worth reading.

 

[Cobra10thaniv]

Re: Re: Truth about 5w20 oil and why SVT says no synoils

Originally posted by Cobra-R
My question to SVT would be: What "design" did they specifically implement into the 03 engine to cause sythetic to not be compatible? (wonder if you will get anything but babbleing)

What did they do different to the 00R engines so they could use 15w50 mobil 1 right from the factory in it?

I will be switching to mobil one in my 03 at the first oil change.

I personally talked to the engineer that built the V10 Boss 351 motor. We talked along time how he made it and the reason for certain parts. He said he used the Cobra R head because the head was far superior than ours in the design. I read your mention of this and that came to mind thought I would tell you what might be so differnt. Juess the head really is.

I to would like to run that 15w50. Maybe the guys that do heavy mods should?

 

[Yates...Man]

Davidmax says the following!

Rings stop seating when you start using syn oil.When I build a motor its 200 miles on Dino oil,then change.500 more very aggressive miles
then change,and than 10-30 Synthetic of your liking.I use MO-1 and I'm happy,some customers with ticking noises go to a Royal Purple,if the tick persists we go 10-40 and that very often does the trick.We sell lots of Red Line #2 after Mobil-1.Dave S.


This is what so many great engine builders do and it has been working for years. Usually done on an engine dyno for the big boys. If you asked Jack Roush or Robert Yates, or even Smokey Yunik -sp, about synthetic oils they would say there is absolutely NO ALTERNATIVE. I like Redline and Royal Purple, and I have used Mobile 1 without a problem ever. Don't be scared of synthetic oils people. Davidmax tells how the ultimate break in is completed. After that, synthetic is the only route! It is the only option because of the way it handles heat, the way it frees up horsepower due to less friction,it will not gunk up under valvecovers in oil pans and in lifter valley areas (pushrod motors), it will maintain its weight better, it sticks to the metal surfaces to a degree that helps on startup when there is no oil, and when parts are moving so fast conventional oil usually gets slung off (high rpm). It's also important to mention the weight of oil he is recommending. 10w30. The closer the two weights the better the oil will hold up, sign of somebody who builds engines and tears them down. Even though I have 5w30 Redline in my car now, I will be switching back to 10w30 as soon as the weather warms up.

 

[PowerWheels]

Couln't Ford answer this question, it's all over the net. Will it void warranty or not? I personally don't even think they would check the damn oil.

 

[PowerWheels]

Couldn't Ford answer this question, it's all over the net. Will it void warranty or not? I personally don't even think they would check the damn oil.

 

[Yates...Man]

As long as synthetic meets the necessary requirements they can't void the warranty. Synthetic in almost every brand surpases any and all requirements. For goodness sake I think even the military is using Mobile 1 synthetic in every application that it fits.

 

[DPS]

Just like to add one thing. Remember that no matter what oil you use, the oil filter is only able to remove dirt down to a certain size (I don't remember what micron). Below that size the dirt remains circulating in the oil and causes wear on engine parts. No matter how good the oil is, CHANGE THE OIL. I have run extended oil drain intervals using synthetic oil in a lot of my cars and run them to 200,000.00 miles and beyond without engine troubles but I won't be running extended oil drain intervals with my cobra due to the extreme invironment in which this engine lives.

:beer:

 

[OldSkoolMC]

I posted this in another thread......

Question: Don't I have to use a 5w20 oil to maintain my factory warranty if my manual recommends a 5w20 oil?

Answer: Absolutely not. Vehicle manufacturers recommend using motor oils meeting certain viscosity grades and American Petroleum Institute service requirements. Whether the motor oil is a 5w20, 5w30, 10w30 or 0w30 or even a synthetic vs. a petroleum-based oil will not affect warranty coverage. The manufacturer is required to cover all equipment failures it would normally cover as long as the oil meets API service requirements and specifications and was not the cause of the failure.

In addition, the federally mandated Magnuson - Moss Warranty Improvement Act states that a manufacturer may not require a specific brand of aftermarket product unless it is provided free of charge. If your dealership continues to tell you that you need to use 5w20 oil to maintain your warranty, then ask them to put it in writing. If they indicate you must use a particular brand of oil to maintain your warranty, tell them you expect it to be provided free of charge.

Their position is inaccurate and, in fact, violates existing U.S. legislation. Additionally, if there is ever a question of whether or not a particular oil was the cause of an engine failure make sure to get a sample of the used oil in a bottle, typically 6 oz. minimum. That will provide enough fluid to send oil to 2 independent testing labs for analysis. Remember, being a knowledgeable and informed consumer is your best defense against being taken advantage of by a car dealership service center.

 

[Yates...Man]

I like what DPS and OldSchoolMC have to say. I think this information is right on target for what we need to know to protect ourselves.

 

[Matt M PA]

OldskoolMc hit the nail squarely on the head.

That said, none of us WANT to have engine problems anyway.

Until my Cobra reaches 5,000 miles, I'm going to use the 5-20 blend from Motorcraft. By then...it may all be sorted out and I'll decide what goes in next.

I am a proponent of synthetics. I have used Mobil 1 in my '94 Bronco since it was a few years old. My Viper has never had anything other than Mobil 1. The only downside is that is older cars, like my '72 Plymouth..being a thinner make-up...actually made the old car a leaker, until I switched back to dino oil.

 

[caveman6666]

Originally posted by Matt M, PA
. The only downside is that is older cars, like my '72 Plymouth..being a thinner make-up...actually made the old car a leaker, until I switched back to dino oil.

Don't they make a 15W50 Syn? I run 20W50 in all the old stuff.

 

[Matt M PA]

caveman6666, they probably do make a really heavy synthetic, but I figure I'll just stick to a 10-40. It's not a hi-po (slant 6),and with the restoration it received it's not going to be hammered on anytime soon.