Unarmed white teen shot in back by SC LEO

[2001sleeper]

As far as cops not investigating cops...than who? I hear this all the time but no one has an answer. Law enforcement are trained as professional criminal investigators. You can't just find someone on the street to conduct a potential criminal investigation when they have no experience doing the multitude of things that need to be done when conducting a potential criminal investigation (obtaining search warrants and subpoenas and executing them, forensics, crime scene analysis, etc...and then turning over that evidence to a DA or AG for prosecution). If you want the Feds to do it, fine...they are still law enforcement and it won't satisfy those who think law enforcement protects law enforcement.

A group of individuals that are paid by a completely separate entity would be a good start.
Collusion is a big concern in these situations. Representatives from random counties and perhaps a mix of individuals with backgrounds outside of police work.
Just throwing out ideas here, so feel free to shoot holes through it as a first reaction. hahahahaha

 

[cbj5259]

A group of individuals that are paid by a completely separate entity would be a good start.
Collusion is a big concern in these situations. Representatives from random counties and perhaps a mix of individuals with backgrounds outside of police work.
Just throwing out ideas here, so feel free to shoot holes through it as a first reaction. hahahahaha

Not shooting holes through it at all...but they would be criminal investigators then. As criminal investigators they would have to swear out search/arrest warrants, get subpoenas and conduct forensics to faithfully and equitably fulfill their duty to investigate criminal police conduct. There are only two types of people who can obtain search/arrest warrants: Attorneys (who are sworn officers of the court) and sworn officers. One must be sworn in order to swear out a warrant. Once you are sworn, you are a de facto law enforcement officer as you are in fact enforcing the law, and as such they would be armed because you would not arrest a criminal police officer without you yourself being armed. So now you have created an entirely new class of law enforcement officer and we are back at square one. Sure, you can have a group of individuals from different fields and areas study a case and recommend charges...and they would be called a GRAND JURY. That system is already in place. You see the problem?

 

[2001sleeper]

An investigator does not have to be all of those things and that is why there are different subject matter experts and individuals with different backgrounds. I also do not see why they would have to serve subpoenas. Sure, maybe that is the way it is setup now, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. If the investigation team needs a subpoena they can have somebody else take care of that. The "team's" job is to source all of the evidence and then draw a conclusion. Sort of like when there is major issue in my line of work we put together a team of individuals not related to the epicenter of the problem. Many different backgrounds and no collusion. Their jobs are not impacted by the outcome and if serious enough an outside agency is brought when the company as a whole could be reprimanded (EPA, TCEQ, OSHA, generla auditos, DOT, DPS, etc...).

The flaw of a Grand Jury is the control over the evidence provided to the Grand Jury and who provides the evidence and how the evidence is presented. The closed door approach to the Grand Jury will always leave questions on the table as well. It is not an open book process and it really should be in situations where a sworn officer takes an individual's life.

 

[Deceptive]

Since when did we start caring about criminals? Did any of you stop to think that maybe our treatment of criminals like victims is what is part of the problem? Frankly, I wish more criminals were removed from the gene pool. I am astonished how many people think that the actions of people such as this are ok. If I almost killed a member of your family racing on the highway would you defend my actions? My guess is that you would want me dead. But hey, Johnny McCumstain tries to run over a police officer trying to save Jane McCumdumpster and every one loses their mind. Maybe if we started treating criminals as such, they would start acting like nonproductive asshats with zero disregard for society.

 

[2001sleeper]

Our constitution makes us care about criminal rights.

 

[Deceptive]

Our constitution makes us care about criminal rights.

If little Johnny tried to run you over, would you care about his constitutional rights? Or would you try and make certain he does not throw the car in reverse or turn it around for a second attempt?

 

[03cobra#694]

Same actors every movie. I could direct it...

 

[cbj5259]

An investigator does not have to be all of those things and that is why there are different subject matter experts and individuals with different backgrounds. I also do not see why they would have to serve subpoenas. Sure, maybe that is the way it is setup now, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. If the investigation team needs a subpoena they can have somebody else take care of that. The "team's" job is to source all of the evidence and then draw a conclusion. Sort of like when there is major issue in my line of work we put together a team of individuals not related to the epicenter of the problem. Many different backgrounds and no collusion. Their jobs are not impacted by the outcome and if serious enough an outside agency is brought when the company as a whole could be reprimanded (EPA, TCEQ, OSHA, generla auditos, DOT, DPS, etc...).

The flaw of a Grand Jury is the control over the evidence provided to the Grand Jury and who provides the evidence and how the evidence is presented. The closed door approach to the Grand Jury will always leave questions on the table as well. It is not an open book process and it really should be in situations where a sworn officer takes an individual's life.

So a law enforcement officer or a DA would be required to obtain search warrants and arrest warrants to arrest the criminal then. What you are proposing is a group that does the leg work of the investigation but does not get dirty with the arrest or the leg work. Furthermore, a DA or AG approves all charges as they are the ones who are responsible for prosecuting all criminals. Either way...somewhere in the process law enforcement is involved. There is no way around it.

 

[2001sleeper]

If little Johnny tried to run you over, would you care about his constitutional rights? Or would you try and make certain he does not throw the car in reverse or turn it around for a second attempt?

Am I an average person in this scenario or am I am officer with the job to uphold and enforce the law using my years worth of tactical training in stressful situations.

Also, to be clear the whole "tried to run him over" is not fact at this point. It is just information that is conflicted by other information released by the same agency.

 

[2001sleeper]

So a law enforcement officer or a DA would be required to obtain search warrants and arrest warrants to arrest the criminal then. What you are proposing is a group that does the leg work of the investigation but does not get dirty with the arrest or the leg work. Furthermore, a DA or AG approves all charges as they are the ones who are responsible for prosecuting all criminals. Either way...somewhere in the process law enforcement is involved. There is no way around it.

Yes law endorcent will clearly be involved, but they will be merely a tool of the process.
Somebody not directly tied to the case through special interest will be calling the shots as I mentioned in my earlier example.
Once again, I am not saying that my idea here is full proof. I am just throwing out possibilities.

 

[2KBlackGT]

Same actors every movie. I could direct it...

Better cast this guy to play me or I'm boycotting.

 

[Deceptive]

Am I an average person in this scenario or am I am officer with the job to uphold and enforce the law using my years worth of tactical training in stressful situations.

Also, to be clear the whole "tried to run him over" is not fact at this point. It is just information that is conflicted by other information released by the same agency.

So, you are actually implying that you should be able to kill little Johnny but a police officer should not? You do realize they are people too? Or are they expendable in your little universe? Have you ever had somebody try to run you over?

But hey, maybe you should go be a LEO and hug it out with criminals since you would be Jet Li after Police Academy.

 

[Deceptive]

Better cast this guy to play me or I'm boycotting.

Lol, this will make reading your comments so much more interesting.

 

[2001sleeper]

So, you are actually implying that you should be able to kill little Johnny but a police officer should not? You do realize they are people too? Or are they expendable in your little universe? Have you ever had somebody try to run you over?

But hey, maybe you should go be a LEO and hug it out with criminals since you would be Jet Li after Police Academy.

My point is that a police officer is supposed to be highly trained in a multitude of situations compared to a regular civilian.
I would hope that a police officer's reactions would be completely different than a civilians as their context for being in the situation is completely different. If you think the reactions should be the same then why even have officer's. Let everybody conceal carry and take the law into their own hands as you are saying a police officer is no better than any other average Joe on the street.

If you don't want to run into a fire, don't be a firefighter.
If you don't want to uphold the constitution and apprehend suspects so they can be put through the justice system, don't be a cop.

 

[Deceptive]

My point is that a police officer is supposed to be highly trained in a multitude of situations compared to a regular civilian.
I would hope that a police officer's reactions would be completely different than a civilians as their context for being in the situation is completely different. If you think the reactions should be the same then why even have officer's. Let everybody conceal carry and take the law into their own hands as you are saying a police officer is no better than any other average Joe on the street.

If you don't want to run into a fire, don't be a firefighter.
If you don't want to uphold the constitution and apprehend suspects so they can be put through the justice system, don't be a cop.

You know what, you are right. Cops get superhuman shots when they graduate. They can leap small buildings in a single bound, they are faster than a speeding bullet. Hell, the Army made me Captain America. I do not know why we shot that guy that tried to run us over in Iraq. I should have just used my shoulder to stop that truck. You know, since I am Captain America.

 

[2001sleeper]

By that logic all are equal than right.
Why go to the hospital and have a doctor give you stitches when all their years of training means that they can stitch you up like Billy down at Firestone can.
Training and being a professional is all stupid I guess as it is OK to just throw that out the window and act like an everyday jackhole.

 

[Deceptive]

By that logic all are equal than right.
Why go to the hospital and have a doctor give you stitches when all their years of training means that they can stitch you up like Billy down at Firestone can.
Training and being a professional is all stupid I guess as it is OK to just throw that out the window and act like an everyday jackhole.

Training and education give you a foundation; that is all. Billy down at Firestone may grasp the concept of stitching and be able to put it into practice better than a doctor.

I have seen people with plenty of training in various fields not be an expert in practice. in a law enforcement job, all the training in the world cannot fix the wiring in a person's brain. You set a hundred officers in the same scenario and I bet you get almost the same amount of different reactions.

But since you always seem to be an excellent Monday Morning Director of the Department of Justice, what line of work are you in and what law enforcement experience do you have?

 

[GT915]

the passenger was going to throw her ice cream cone pointy end first and stab the officer in the eye. oke:

LOL...funniest post in this thread.

 

[2001sleeper]

But since you always seem to be an excellent Monday Morning Director of the Department of Justice, what line of work are you in and what law enforcement experience do you have?

The point is general.
Anybody that is a professional in their field with specific training is expected to perform tasks associated with their field much better than an average everyday person with no training.
If you are trained to perform that task and can not perform it when called upon you are not good at your job.

As for this thread, if the "criminal" truly tried to run over a police officer than he got what he wanted. However, since even the acting officer's statements are conflicting we can suggest that the situation not a life or death matter and the officer did not need to discharge his weapon. His professional training should be able to determine the difference and video evidence will prove this.

 

[Deceptive]

The point is general.
Anybody that is a professional in their field with specific training is expected to perform tasks associated with their field much better than an average everyday person with no training.
If you are trained to perform that task and can not perform it when called upon you are not good at your job.

As for this thread, if the "criminal" truly tried to run over a police officer than he got what he wanted. However, since even the acting officer's statements are conflicting we can suggest that the situation not a life or death matter and the officer did not need to discharge his weapon. His professional training should be able to determine the difference and video evidence will prove this.

I agree that a trained individual should interpret a situation differently than Joe Dirt. However, our brain interprets those things differently in each of us. You can go to five doctors and get five diagnosis. Today I had a difficult airway, I have a plan of execution to solve the issue different than all my current colleagues.

While his partner may not have viewed the threat as the officer who shot did, that does not negate the threat. Angle, distance, past experiences, and the brain's perception of each officer involved will change the threat each officer would perceive.