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Discussion in 'Driveline' started by NetworkingGuru, Sep 3, 2003.
I'll do both :beer:
Ever since I started hearing about this I barely ever drive the Cobra. I don't mind paying to play but I don't want to have to pay $3000 to fix a $50 problem. That's complete B.S.
My Cobra is just sitting there until I see a fix for this problem.
I got a question for you guys............... My TOB started sqealing at aroung 3000 mis. Had it documented with Ford. But due to the fact I can't get the pig to reproduce the sound when I bring it in they won't touch it. Problem is I was going to do the quadrant thing and a spec 2 clutch but after hearing about what dude is going thru with the warranty issue now I'm having second thoughts.
My question is why now that it's summer and hot do I not get the sqealing anymore. Would the hot temperatures cause it to stop squealing??? Further if I let my foot rest ever so lightly on the clutch pedal when under hard acceleration........... ooops. Under moderate acceleration you know the kind of accelaration that Ford uses in all their marketing pics................ Seriously when I accelerate hard with foot lightly on pedal it bucks and vibrates something feirce. Whats that about. Not normal I assume. Never had a clutch pedal shimmy and shake like this before. Any input???
The TOB's in these things just seem poorly designed and when they go, if not addressed soon enough the retainer goes as well. If your looking at replacing your clutch with a specII I would just do it and install the composit TOB that comes with, then you will hopefully not have the problem so many others face.
The way it sounds anyways is dealers are looking for reasons to not cover claims regarding the TOB even though there really is no way to abuse it. The TOB isnt really affected by power levels or anything but it would seem many dealers are becomming quite anal, so even if you do have a problem I wouldnt count on it getting fixed.
Jumpincactus, I would take the car in BEFORE the new clutch. Sounds like your retainer is BROKEN OFF. Another member had the same symptoms (I will not name him becuase I don't know if he wants it public) and that was his problem. If they give you crap, tell them to tear it down, and if they can show you that there are no problems with the Retainer and/or bearing, that you will pay for the labor (should be about 2 hours at MOST).
Also, right after they get your new tranny in, go get the spec clutch and all. Keep the old stock parts. If it goes bad with the spec stuff, pay to have the stock stuff put back on and take it back in.
Times like this I wish the dealership I go to did stuff like this. I have the corporate legal program for employees that I've paid into the past few years and I want to take that baby out for a spin.
NG, I really hope things works out for you. Seeing horror stories like this makes me nervous and angry at the same time. I feel blessed to have a good dealership to work with.
I won't clutter the thread with the details until your test is done and results are reported, but there is a long-term tranny guy out here who is highly confident he has an 'appropriate' fix for the bs TOB retainer issue and we may use my car as the test case if things don't work out on your test.
Just traded a Z06 for Cobra over issues with Chebby, I thought Ford had a "Better Idea". Maybe, I was wrong.:shrug:
Thanks JH. Hopefully, this will fix it, but I'm not getting my hopes up until I see it. UPS says it should be in by Wednesday.
New tranny( broken off TOB retainer pressed in piece); new Spec Stage 2 and Spec alum flywheel with spec TOB and terrible squeal present within 600 miles of install. Pull tranny inspect tranny and clutch all appear perfect and install with another new Spec TOB. Strange vibration and almost something hitting something sound from clutch area. Throughout all of this the Spec 2 bites unbelievable but wins contests at chattering. I just returned from a long road trip and the vibration/something hitting noise is worse. If I put just a little pressure on the clutch pedal it goes away. It only makes the noise when the clutch is fully engaged. Mechanics are all confused but think that it has to be the clutch although the chatter in the clutch is subsiding. This entire situation sucks, IMHO, since I bought my Cobra to run it hard. I knew it would run hard by reading the Ford sales material and by checking out the magazine articles with alleged quotes from top Ford officials in them. Now, I am having some bad times surrounding my car, which, other than the tranny/clutch issues, is a great Mustang. This week I went on a road trip and I ran a series of little travelled farm and mountain roads at advanced touring speeds. The car was truly wonderful in this element, even though there was a constant clatter from the clutch.bell housing area of the car. It made me nervous, but, I drove normally since it would be a real shame to own an 03 Cobra and not be able to use it for those occassions that it was designed to excel in.
Sounds like no fun at all. I may be going down this route real soon, and hope there is something I can learn from what you have gone thru. Right now, can't figure what to do differently...
Tetge, I still think they reused your release fork (clutch fork, TOB fork, whatever the hell the official name is). I am going to try and get a new one this time, just in case. Taking the shotgun approach this time, replaceing and inspecting anything and everything that could possibly cause the problem.
According to our resident guru, SVTADVISOR, shifting too hard drives that fork into bearing/retainer and causes damage. If thats the case then why the hell didnt ford implement shift stops like aftermarket shifters. What I find really ironic is tremec says the shift stops arent needed and most of the problems are on cars that have aftermarket shifters.....maybe that throuws SVTADvisors excuse out the window.
SVTAdvisor doesn't know what he's talking about. Shifting the tranny has nothing to do with the TOB or the release fork. Engaging-disengaging the clutch is all that affects the release fork, as it id the thing that holds the TOB and actually causes the TOB to move when the clutch is engaged. If it is defective, it could put more pressure than necessary on the TOB, which will put more pressure on the retainer. I can't see how anything you could do to the fork, besides beating the shit out of it with a hammer, caould cause a good one to go defective, so my guess is that the tolerances are too loose on them and many of us just got bad ones.
Yea, I dont think we are alone in this from what I hear a lot of cheby dealers have piles of pulled tremecs as well, wish tremec would get their act together.
I asked the two mechanics (both very experience and talented) that have done all the recent work at my private shop and the dealer and they both had the same feeling about my problems. They think that it's the Spec clutch. I will call Spec Monday, but I do not expect them to be of any help. The Ford mechanic reused the the TOB fork piece (I guess I should go find out all the technical names for these clutch related pieces so that I can identify them porperly) but both the Ford guy and the private guy inspected everything really carefully and according to both of them, everything looked new and perfect.
I have never speed shifted my car which is one reason it is slower than the fast cars. My previous tranny was noisey but it shifted like butter. The new tranny is still new and notchy, but it shifts acceptably. I could live with the Spec clutch at this point because it chatters, especially when it is dead cold, but it isn't chattering anymore when I drive since I have learned how to let it out normally and avoid the chatter. Also, the chatter may be going away.
However, the sound of something hitting on something down in the bell housing is unacceptable. Somewhere, there should be marks where the hitting is taking place, but, so far, two separate mechanics have been unable to figure it out.
My car will turn 30000 miles in the next week, so, I figure that my contribution on this board may be that I have a car with mods and lots of mileage. My problem did not surface until after 25000 miles, although everyone's experiences may vary. I have been following the TOB noise threads, and, more and more people have been coming up with TOB problems. Perhaps, as the miles roll up on their cars, they will start having the retainer failures as well? It does appear that the stock clutch quadrant is a poor design that does not keep the stock clutch in proper adjustment and also that the stock clutch may not hold up under the strains of modified torque. I hope that these serious failures are just isolated quality contol issues like the unbalanced drive shafts, but, since I suspect a design (geometry?) problem in the clutch/TOB mechanism, this may be a bigger problem than has been reported to date.
Without the internet, I would have been isolated about this entire problem and no doubt I would have believed that some action on my part was responsible for the broken drive train. But, there are too many reports of failures on newer completely stock cars for me to accept that I somehow created this problem. Also, I have owned 10 new manual transmission Mustangs since 1988, and this is the first time that I have encountered this kind of problem. My 1993 Mustang had the stock tranny and a full GT40 kit with a 9# Powerdyne blower and 3.73's. It ran [email protected] at LACR on slippery street tires with no clutch or tranny problems. I got rid of it at 75000 miles. My 98 Cobra with 3.73's never missed a beat in the clutch area and was driven hard.
Something's not right here!
I know the fork looks OK, my techs said the same thing, but if it was defective to start with, it WOULD look OK. I just can't think of anything else that could cause it. As for the banging, I can just about promise you that isn't the clutch. My spec doesn't do that, and I've never heard of a spec doing that. Secondarily, I don't see how it could, from looking at it. Does it do it all the time, or just when you shift? It seems to me that there may be some lash in your fork that is causing it to bang around on the bell housing. There should be zero lash in the fork when adjusted properly with an adjustable clutch cable. If the techs left lash in it, that might be your problem. BTW, is the TOB still squeeling?
First of all I'd like to say that Ford sucks for not taking care of you 03 guys and I hope you get your situation worked out at a resonable cost. This thread brings up a question regarding my 99. AS you all know this TOB problem isn't new to Cobras and I'm having the same problem. I just replaced the TOB and did the whole clutch at about 44K miles and after only 1000 miles I have a squeek again until I just bearly push the clutch in. Different then before. Anyway, could this be a bad retainer and the shop missed it?