That's one badass dash kit. Someone needs to bring that back and have a lower dash section matching or complementing the top wood.
VMP dual fan heat exchanger vs Kincaid Killer chiller
- Thread starter V8Flexin
- Start date
So riddle me this. If the a/c compressor isn't active at WOT, how effective is the killer chiller when you need it? Having cool IAT2s cruising around town might make for lower than ambient temps, but what happens when the hammer's down? These basic concepts have always steered me toward a fanned heat exchanger.
The coolant is already cold and takes time to heat up. The more coolant you have the longer it takes to heat up and cool down. My only initial concern was how much heat can the killer chiller setup handle and bring down in temp.
Or have both like me. The best of both worlds!
With the new info I learned today, for me the performance of the triple pass is not worth the $800 price tag. Especially when the killer chiller is the same price.
Unfortunately, from what I've seen and from other people's posts/threads heat exchangers can only get about 30-35* above ambient.
I have upgraded to the 13/14 IC pump for more flow, the benefit was about 5* on average.
I have upgraded to the 13/14 IC pump for more flow, the benefit was about 5* on average.
There is a TON of info on killer chillers. Especially in terminator sections.
Short answer it works extremely well. Most people use a dual fan heat exchanger because they don't want to hack up their A/C. And brands such as H&R have proven themselves over and over too.
Again, tons of info on this forum about killer chillers.
Short answer it works extremely well. Most people use a dual fan heat exchanger because they don't want to hack up their A/C. And brands such as H&R have proven themselves over and over too.
Again, tons of info on this forum about killer chillers.
C&R (not H&R)
I think the Roush stock-looking reservoir (which is what I have) holds 16 oz. of fluid. So that plus whatever the IC, HE and hoses hold. Different operating conditions affect how quickly the cabin will begin to cool down. I'll give you the worst case scenarios I've encountered so far. The absolute worst is when I've been driving around for a while on an especially hot summer day, park the car somewhere long enough for the IC to become 100% heat soaked, then have to get into stop-and-go traffic afterward. In that scenario, since the car is idling more than anything, it takes between 5 and 10 minutes for the A/C to start blowing comfortable air through the vents.
In the same scenario above, except getting into flowing city traffic, it takes about 2 minutes for comfortable air to start coming through the vents. Going from parked heat soak and straight out to the freeway, it takes between 1 and 2 minutes for comfortable air to come through the vents.
Now for what you were asking for. On a 100*+ day, it takes probably close to an hour for max cold air to start coming through the vents. At that point, the air actually becomes uncomfortable because it's too cold. When it reaches that point, I have to raise the temp inside the cabin so my fingers don't go numb.
For reference, I keep my thermostat set to 71* year round. I used to keep it at 72*, but after installing the KC, I had to reduce it by 1* to feel the same comfort. On super hot 110*+ days, I have to drop it to 69* for a little while to knock the heat out of the interior trim and fabric. After that, I bump it back up to 70 or 71. I do not have my hoses insulated or my HE blocked off. If I did those two things, the system would probably work significantly better. I don't yet have a need to go that extreme with it.
Keep in mind that with the increased volume from installing the KC kit, you have to add a half pound more refrigerant. (Or it might just be a couple ounces. I can't remember exactly.) So once all the fluids are nice and chilled, the system actually cools the cabin a little better than stock because of the extra volume of refrigerant being able to pull more heat from the cabin. It puts a smile on my face when I think about how the cold air that's blowing through my vents is the same cold air that's pulling heat from my engine's air charge.
The cold charge from the KC lasts way longer than 20 seconds. Also, at no point during a 20 second run will the fluid become heat soaked, not unless you're running a pulley the size of a large bolt. So as soon as the compressor cycles back on, it's only a handful of seconds before the fluid drops 30*+, and the longer you drive, the colder it gets (to a point). Let's see a triple pass do that.
You could literally do a 60 - 140 MPH run on cold air, coast back down, and by the time you got back down to 60MPH, the charge would be just as cold as when you started the first run, if not colder. You can do that all night with a KC. With a fan/HE setup, it's pretty much one and done, until you've driven down the road a few minutes. In case you didn't know, the HE fans don't come on at highway speeds because the air flowing over the HE is faster than what the fans can produce.
Here's an anecdotal story I've told here before. I was playing around on the freeway one fall evening. The car was fast, but didn't feel as fast as it normally does. I got off an exit to turn around and go back the other way. When I got to the top of the off ramp, I looked down and noticed that I didn't have the climate control on. I turned it on, and by the time I drove across the overpass to go back the other way, the air charge was cold enough to give me back my timing. Using the same amount of throttle getting back onto the freeway, the back end was wiggling in second and third. It felt like the car had picked up well over 50HP at the wheels in just those 10 or so seconds that the KC had been activated. And, of course, it just got better the longer I drove.
Thanks for the info
I have placed my KC in the classifieds if anyone is interested:
https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/killer-chiller-2007-2009.1131869/
https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/killer-chiller-2007-2009.1131869/
I didn't know they made such a thing, I'll have to look into it.
Do you have any data to back this up? Every PD blower car I see at the track with a trunk mounted tank will melt 5-10 pounds of ice easily in a 1/4 mile pass. I'd be kind of surprised if IAT's were still under control on the big end of the track since the AC compressor doesn't run at WOT.
Well, think about it, though. You're comparing water that has been exposed to ice (probably between 23* and 32*) to water exposed to refrigerant (r134a is -200*F or thereabouts). If the KC guy has been running his system for long enough (and not shutting the car off, letting the fluid soak up heat), his fluid should be colder than the ice tank guy to begin with.
Also, people keep saying the compressor cuts out at WOT. I don't think that's the correct way of saying it. The compressor cuts out above (I believe) 5K RPM. So, unless he's launching at crazy high RPM, his compressor is still going to be running for a good portion of his trip down the strip. But I could be wrong.
Even if the compressor does cut out, and the water heats up at the end, the KC will still "create" chilled water by the time he makes back to the bottom of the track. It'll be cold water by the time he gets back to the staging lanes, and he doesn't have to deal with dumping water and refilling a tank with water and ice. I can't imagine that being a fun ordeal to deal with after every pass.
Also, people keep saying the compressor cuts out at WOT. I don't think that's the correct way of saying it. The compressor cuts out above (I believe) 5K RPM. So, unless he's launching at crazy high RPM, his compressor is still going to be running for a good portion of his trip down the strip. But I could be wrong.
Even if the compressor does cut out, and the water heats up at the end, the KC will still "create" chilled water by the time he makes back to the bottom of the track. It'll be cold water by the time he gets back to the staging lanes, and he doesn't have to deal with dumping water and refilling a tank with water and ice. I can't imagine that being a fun ordeal to deal with after every pass.
What the water is exposed to doesn't really matter, the only thing that matters is water temp and IAT. Having 60*F water circulating all the way down the track is going to work better than staging with 35*F water and passing through the traps with 135*F water. I was just curious if you had any data logs from passes to see what's actually going on. It very well may work awesome, but there's no way to know without actual numbers. If the compressor cuts out above 5,000 RPM then it shouldn't be running hardly at all down the track if you're launching and shifting correctly. I think you would be really surprised just how quick the water in the intercooler heats up without active cooling, even if you start out with everything being ice cold.
For the record, yes the ac compressor clutch is disengaged soon as a WOT signal is seen by the ECM whether at 500rpm or 5,000rmp for both compressor protection and maximum engine power. The ac compressor has a max operating rpm somewhere around 3500rpm. A ice water setup will out perform the killer chiller with enough ice present at start of pass and large enough system since it can still be actively cooling during the pass. However, it's not a feasible setup for daily driving plus you have the added hassle of draining and replacing the ice each pass. To me, the killer chiller is like running a small self refilling ice setup which is more useful for daily driving/impromptu street races. The more insulated the setup is pre/post intercooler, the higher cooling/heat soak prevention you have. I wonder if it's possible to run two killer chiller blocks in parallel on the ac system and have the coolant run in series how much more heat the setup could pull. Maybe get coolant temps well below freezing would be like having a small shot of nitrous style cooling. But then there's only so much heat the stock intercooler can transfer. Then we may be looking for even larger intercooler blocks than the 13-14.
For the record I think the killer chiller is great for the street. If you're looking for track performance, you can't beat a large trunk tank and tons of ice.
I had my intercooler machined out to 1" feed/return and have all 1" fittings. I am running 1" hose from the trunk tank all the way to the intercooler and back with no bottlenecks.
I had my intercooler machined out to 1" feed/return and have all 1" fittings. I am running 1" hose from the trunk tank all the way to the intercooler and back with no bottlenecks.
ive had both, sort of, so i can chime in.
we used to make an a/c system like the killer chiller. same thing in overall concept. it worked brilliantly. i had one in my lightning powered f150. took it to the drag strip. the water was super cold before i made my pass. made my pass, with a/c off, then turned it on right after i finished the pass. by the time i got back in line again (private track day with NO waiting), the coolant was freezing cold again. meanwhile the lightning guys were sitting in the pits with big bags of ice on their blowers lol. i made back to back passes like this.
also had this system in my terminator. i took it do a dyno day. i made a bunch of WOT passes up and down the street. maybe 5? i then pulled into the driveway, popped my hood, and put my hand right on the blower right in front of everyone. the coolant was about the same temperature as if i had just started the car in the morning. and in less than half a minute it dropped down to ice cold again, just while sitting their idling.
id REALLY like to get a system for my gt500.
i have Van's dual fan HE on my gt500. ive taken it to a few track days already. for the most part the dual fan HE has kept my coolant from getting two hot. out of 4 track days i only had one session where it got hot and the car started pulling timing. and that was on a private track day where we were running nice long 20 minute sessions on the big track at willow. long WOT runs at high speeds. after that session, instead of the standard 1 lap cool down lap i would stop a little early and do 2 laps for cool down. when i pulled back in the pits, my coolant tank was warm (not HOT).
for a DD, the dual fan heat exchanger is more than sufficient. for someone who takes the car to the drag strip or races on the street/highway a lot, i would say go with the KC (if not BOTH). having the KC system will be liking constantly dropping ice into your coolant system. "ice on demand"
we used to make an a/c system like the killer chiller. same thing in overall concept. it worked brilliantly. i had one in my lightning powered f150. took it to the drag strip. the water was super cold before i made my pass. made my pass, with a/c off, then turned it on right after i finished the pass. by the time i got back in line again (private track day with NO waiting), the coolant was freezing cold again. meanwhile the lightning guys were sitting in the pits with big bags of ice on their blowers lol. i made back to back passes like this.
also had this system in my terminator. i took it do a dyno day. i made a bunch of WOT passes up and down the street. maybe 5? i then pulled into the driveway, popped my hood, and put my hand right on the blower right in front of everyone. the coolant was about the same temperature as if i had just started the car in the morning. and in less than half a minute it dropped down to ice cold again, just while sitting their idling.
id REALLY like to get a system for my gt500.
i have Van's dual fan HE on my gt500. ive taken it to a few track days already. for the most part the dual fan HE has kept my coolant from getting two hot. out of 4 track days i only had one session where it got hot and the car started pulling timing. and that was on a private track day where we were running nice long 20 minute sessions on the big track at willow. long WOT runs at high speeds. after that session, instead of the standard 1 lap cool down lap i would stop a little early and do 2 laps for cool down. when i pulled back in the pits, my coolant tank was warm (not HOT).
for a DD, the dual fan heat exchanger is more than sufficient. for someone who takes the car to the drag strip or races on the street/highway a lot, i would say go with the KC (if not BOTH). having the KC system will be liking constantly dropping ice into your coolant system. "ice on demand"
Pulled the trigger on the killer chiller kit and going to install this weekend after car's & coffee. Still have to get foam insulation for my hoses and tank. Hopefully this and the 170 t-stat will see the end of my GT500 heat soak day's.
Users who are viewing this thread
