warranty question

[f4sfed]

Re: Re: Re: Re: pulley detection

Originally posted by 03DOHC
No he's not. I am proof of that. Mods don't mean you race 100% of the time. Making a complete blanket statement like that is wrong.

I agree, I KNOW I'm not racing most of the time.

But I don't think that's what that statement means. I think it means that there are risks we take with modifying our cars. One of those risks is potentially voiding our warranty (or parts of it anyway) by making modifications.

 

[03DOHC]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: pulley detection

Originally posted by f4sfed
I agree, I KNOW I'm not racing most of the time.

But I don't think that's what that statement means. I think it means that there are risks we take with modifying our cars. One of those risks is potentially voiding our warranty (or parts of it anyway) by making modifications.

Negative. The modification has to cause the failure. PERIOD. That's the law. Just because someone has modifications doesn't mean the warranty is void.

Guess I'm going to have to get into it again. I had an Eibach Pro Kit on my '97 Cobra. As everyone on the planet Earth knows, the typical Mustang looks like a rednecks wet dream 4X4, so I lowered it with springs. None of the dealers in my immediate area would fix my trans under warranty because, as they put it "racing modifications caused the trans to fail because you race this vehicle all the time." In 2 years I put MAYBE 2500 miles on the car. I lived about 1 1/2 miles from work and ONLY went to and from work and an occasional cruise down the coast.

Now that that's said, you're going to tell me that that blanket statement of "you wanna play, you gotta pay" applies all the time? F^CK NO it doesn't. I was not racing none of the time.

 

[Trader]

I took my WS6 in for an oil consumption problem. They had the car for 3 days and called me back.

Service manager "whats the line lock for?"
ME "looks"
SM "whats that there dern roll cage for?"
ME "style"
SM "Whats that lil white wire tapped into the pcm?"
ME "tach, helps me keep the car out of redline"
SM "You have a smaller crank pully on there?"
ME "yup,turns the accesories slower putting less strain on the engine"
SM "Whats the line lock for?"
ME "i use it instead of the parking brake"
SM "What about all that new suspension stuff?"
ME "makes the car safer on the road, my kids ride in this"
SM " is that a new rear end cover?"
ME "actually its a strange 12 bolt with 4.10 gears, because this piece of 30k crap you sold me broke at 15k and you wouldnt replace it"

Didnt get my oil issues fixed. They dont like me at that dealer anymore.

I will go visit them in the cobra once i get it.

Shifting into 5th gear on the higway has solved some of my oil issues.



;-)

 

[03DOHC]

:lol: HAHAHA!

 

[f4sfed]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: pulley detection

Originally posted by 03DOHC
Negative. The modification has to cause the failure. PERIOD. That's the law. Just because someone has modifications doesn't mean the warranty is void.

Guess I'm going to have to get into it again. I had an Eibach Pro Kit on my '97 Cobra. As everyone on the planet Earth knows, the typical Mustang looks like a rednecks wet dream 4X4, so I lowered it with springs. None of the dealers in my immediate area would fix my trans under warranty because, as they put it "racing modifications caused the trans to fail because you race this vehicle all the time." In 2 years I put MAYBE 2500 miles on the car. I lived about 1 1/2 miles from work and ONLY went to and from work and an occasional cruise down the coast.

Now that that's said, you're going to tell me that that blanket statement of "you wanna play, you gotta pay" applies all the time. F^CK NO it doesn't. I was not racing none of the time.

I agree with you (I wish I could quote my quote from above). It doesn't apply all the time. And that sucks. I myself, am not planning on taking my car in for that exact reason...unless I am FORCED to for some reason. After all the stories I've read, and my experience of my salesman, I have a strong distaste for any dealer work right now. However i8u has graciously offered his place of employments services.

But (as an example) changing the pulley, and increasing the blower speed by 33% (or whatever it is), and expecting the dealer to fix a blower failure, is not right either.

 

[03DOHC]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: pulley detection

Originally posted by f4sfed
But (as an example) changing the pulley, and increasing the blower speed by 33% (or whatever it is), and expecting the dealer to fix a blower failure, is not right either.

You have no argument from me there. However, if I drive into the dealer with a chirp from the accessory belt behind the supercharger belt, and they see a pulley on my blower, and I haven't raced my car (I am busy and work a lot and never get a chance to do anything but go to work and come home) and say BRRRREEEPPP! BRRREEEEPPP! WARRANTY VOIDED!!!! WARRANTY VOIDED!!!:bored: That's BS. That's what I'm talking about. Mods unrelated to the failed part. Anyway, I think we both get what the other is saying. Peace.

 

[f4sfed]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: pulley detection

Originally posted by 03DOHC
You have no argument from me there. However, if I drive into the dealer with a chirp from the accessory belt behind the supercharger belt, and they see a pulley on my blower, and I haven't raced my car (I am busy and work a lot and never get a chance to do anything but go to work and come home) and say BRRRREEEPPP! BRRREEEEPPP! WARRANTY VOIDED!!!! WARRANTY VOIDED!!!:bored: That's BS. That's what I'm talking about. Mods unrelated to the failed part. Anyway, I think we both get what the other is saying. Peace.

Agreed.

We're sayin' the same thing. ...just differently. :beer:

 

[TruBlu03]

(Long) Sniff sniff? What did I step in now!?!

The issue here is not and never really has been what mod will void your warranty. Federal law is very clear on the matter and I can assure you Ford knows it very well, dealerships for the most part are pretty clueless. The primary objective of any dealership is to make a profit, customer service is catch phrase for most. If they can get you to agree to something that makes them more money or lessens their risk/cost they will. Ignornace of the fact can alwasy be claimed and seldom ever call their bluff anyways.

The fact of the matter is, Ford dealerships and techs(not sure about techs pay anymore) make less money when doing warranty work and are inclined from the get go to deny the work. From my previous understanding, warranty work time and cost is set, e.g. Ford will cover only x number of hours to replace a clutch, rear end etc. From what I've gathered a good number of the time/cost estimates used by Ford are on the low side, anything over and the dealer eats it, lost productivity on profit making repairs/service. I'm not sure if this is still the case but I believe it used to be that the techs got paid under a different rate for warranty work than other work as well. This I believe was also capped and hard set by Ford, any overage and the dealer is not covered by Ford to pay the tech so they eat that cost. This is based on what I knew about over a year and a half ago, I am assuming it is still the same but I could be wrong.

Another reason is alot of dealers are just jack offs and will look for any excuse to get you to pay full price IMO. They know 98% of us out here are clueless about warranty coverage and our rights under the law. Stand around a service area for a day and listen to the BS thats blow up peoples arses. The know most won't fight, sure they'll grumble and complain but most are easily satisfied with a few free oil changes or the like. Easy money and women are bigger targets than any other.

If you know your rights, whats right and whats wrong you still have the problem of dealing with the jackass dealer who frowns on any modification. Some just don't know the answer and others are aholes. Ultimately, you would have to fight it at your own up front expense and loss of your vehicle(in some cases) for an undetrmined amount of time. Almost everyone gives in, is too expensive, too long, not worth the hassle etc etc. Dealers know this, especially for things like replacning the engine, tranny etc etc. Common sense should prevail, if you change the pulley on your S/C and have a problem with the engine your are more likley to get warranty work denied. If you drive to the dealer with NOS hoses laying about, giant tach on the dash, DR's on the back, ton's of rubber glued to the wheel wells, drag shocks, no front sway bar etc etc, and complain that your half shats snapped or your tranny broke while going to the grocery store with granny, warranty work will be difficult to come by. We should also be reasonable in our requests. Just because you expect the dealer rip you off dosen't make it right for you to do it to them IMO.

The law is and has been on our side for some time. Most are just unaware,(goto the SEMA website to learn more. While the law is on our side the cards are still stacked in the dealerships favor and probably always will be. Best thing is everyone gets educated and knows what is what.

There are other good links to informative sites, some have been posted in these forums so a quick search might be in order. If I can re-locate my links with good info I will post them.

With enough links to informative sites maybe we could add it to a tech or education section, maybe even a forum sticky of sorts?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the issues where rear end warranty work is denied due to lower springs being installed is just plain stupid. Or SFC's mean you race so full warranty is void, prove that I race it and it caused the problem. You can't void the full warranty for something like that anyways. Make any combination you want, either way it illistrates the point, it's not related the warranty is covered, they have to prove it caused the problem.

[flame suit on]
[/tirade] :bash:

 

[stan03]

I Hear You !!

I agree that these things don't apply all the time as I thought I mentioned.You have to consider that to get an engineer involved a customer is pushing us to fix something we don't feel comfortable doing as a result of obvious abnormal operation.
I can also say that my customers with as many or more mods aren't having alot of the troubles I hear about because of our access to the most up to date information.We also don't do anything that we haven't installed on test basis first...fun for me.
Good strong running cars don't break unless abused,I haven't had a stock vehicle in years and haven't had a related failure that required warranty coverage...but it is risky.
BTW..the ford engineer most notorious for warranty cancellation for racing and abuse drives a race car on the side...and an SVT guy has never been to a dealership that I know.

 

[TruBlu03]

1 Last bit

Forgot to mention somehting that has worked for me with the last 3 stangs and warranty work. Get to know your service rep and tech. Before you start modding(if you can) discuss your plans with them, educate if needed and see what they are willing to work with. They may not agree with everything obviously, but for those that get all nervous over things like shifter swaps, CAI, gears, exhaust etc etc, it will let you know where you stand. Then check around with other dealers and get their reactions. At least you will know where you stand and they should not think you are trying to pool the wool over their eyes. In my experience it helps to find dealers that are SVT, Steeda, Rousch or Saleen certified.

Someone mentioned tipping a service rep. I have never done this or even thought about it until he mentioned it, but it does sound like a good idea. The tech might like a 6pack or too while your at it. :beer:

 

[stan03]

Now You Got It !!

That's it,don't be scared of them..get them involved.You might be surprised how much they will and can do for you and your car.
I must say that I've been a dealer for 20yrs this year and haven't paid any of that overage and my only techs to make over 100k historically have done mostly warranty work.They do get paid less and the times are tight,but there is nothing like work sitting there,usually more than we can handle after retailing 40,000 or so vehicles.

 

[03DOHC]

Re: I Hear You !!

Originally posted by stan03
I agree that these things don't apply all the time as I thought I mentioned.You have to consider that to get an engineer involved a customer is pushing us to fix something we don't feel comfortable doing as a result of obvious abnormal operation.
I can also say that my customers with as many or more mods aren't having alot of the troubles I hear about because of our access to the most up to date information.We also don't do anything that we haven't installed on test basis first...fun for me.
Good strong running cars don't break unless abused,I haven't had a stock vehicle in years and haven't had a related failure that required warranty coverage...but it is risky.
BTW..the ford engineer most notorious for warranty cancellation for racing and abuse drives a race car on the side...and an SVT guy has never been to a dealership that I know.

I was a tech at a Ford dealer. We, along with the rest of the Ford Dealers in the Country, replaced so many T-45's, in STOCK GT's and Cobra's, that the trans was on national back order. No abnormal operation, no mods, no pulleys need apply.

By the time I left the profession in '98 the amount ford paid the techs for warranty work was cut over and over to the point dealers try to get customer pay work, unless its some gravy job that Ford hasn't caught up to yet.

I know my rights under the law and I know about the Mag/Moss Act. I don't have the time or money to fight the dealer for what I know is right. I actually SAVED money by purchacing my tranny from D&D and having it installed by an Independent Shop. The amount of time I had to take off of work exceeded the cost of the trans, clutch assy and the labor to install it.

All that crap because my trans had the 1-2 grind and popped out of reverse. Because I had lowering springs, I was labeled a "racer" who obviously had to abuse the car, because it had springs. SPRINGS! No K&N, no flowmasters, no vortech, NO off-road pipe, no CAI, no aftermarket MAF, no underdrive pulleys, ONLY SPRINGS!

Ford and their dealers have a lot of work to do to get me to trust ANY OF YOU. I am afraid to put mufflers on my car because if I get the famous "tick", "pull" or "vibe", and god forbid I have a K&N, YOU GUYS, Ford's so called dealers, might deny my warranty repair because I put some freaking mufflers on! Sorry, this has been a big thorn in my ass for a long time. It cost me a lot of time and money. And my time IS money.

I don't intend to single you out because I don't know you, but when I hear crap like "if you want to play, you have to pay" it pisses me off to no end. As far as I'm concerned Ford owes me 1300 bucks and that's being generous. When I feel I've been repaid my damages I will ease up on Ford. Have a nice day.

 

[CWCobra]

And where the dealership really makes out is when they deny warranty coverage, make the customer pay, then later turn it in as a warranty repair after the customer leaves, and they get paid TWICE for the same job. Now THAT'S profit, my friends! Sweet work if you can get it. Customer pay and warranty claim, for the same repair. I've seen warranty repairs turned in on cars that have never been touched! I've seen RDR's turned in for cars still parked at the dealer's lot (back in the days of allocations). Dealers are people too. Some are honest; some are crooks.
Be careful out there.
Peace,
CW