Watch out GT350, The 1LE SS is coming!

[az20115.0]

Ok, explain to me why a 458 Speciale and a 650S, often roughly MSRP $330k, same segment, similar performance, one trades at $50-75k over MSRP, one at $75-100k below.

People buy cars for more than the numbers on a sheet.

I dont think thats a legit comparison. Most importantly, you are talking about cars in a price point where money doesnt really matter.. The slightest difference in production runs may seriously offset the market values of these cars. I am pretty sure you are saying that the 650S is cheaper that the Speciale and I am pretty sure that there are many many more 650s out there than Especiales. Not to mention that both those cars have many more competitors and those two brands have not been serious competitors in production cars like Camaro and Mustang. Also the 458 is a N/A car, and from what I understand its just as quick if not quicker around a track than the 650s wich is a FI car. So it does more with less and is a much better car according to people who can drive them.. When you are shopping for a close to 1/2 a million $$ car, these things can sway values hundreds of thousands pretty easy, and deservedly so.

I dont disagree that people buy cars for more than just stats, so then more people should buy more of the GT350s if they are that much better, and the jury is still out on that by the way.. I just dont get the 10, 20, 30, 50, 100k mark ups.. on 50-60k car

 

[DBK]

It's a totally legit comparison. It's all the same shit. Cars are worth more or less depending on how desirable they are in the marketplace. They made a great number of both of those cars for their price points, there's certainly fewer competitors for those dollars than Camaro and Mustang deal with, 650S will obliterate the Speciale in many performance aspects but Speciale trades way over while 650S trades way under.

But you did arrive at one nugget of truth..."So it does more with less and is a much better car according to people who can drive them." Same applies at $50k or $500k. People are gonna be ponying up for the 5.2L, stat sheet or not.

 

[az20115.0]

They are nowhere near at the same production run and what performance aspects does the 650s oblidirate the 458? 1/4 mile? really? The 458 is just as fast if not faster than the 650s on the track where it is important because it is a track car, it is a much better car, with much lower production numbers, and in the 300k range, this stuff matters a lot. There is no proof that the GT350 is a much better car than the Camaro or the upcoming Camaro 1LE.. look at all those who payed huge mark ups for the Z28! I bet they feel stupid right now

 

[DBK]

They are nowhere near at the same production run and what performance aspects does the 650s oblidirate the 458? 1/4 mile? really?

Um, virtually everything quantitative. They aren't even remotely in the same league in a straight line. 650S kills everything that is not a hypercar in a straight line, and there's a reason Ferrari wouldn't let Autocar test the two head to head for lap times even though the cars were at the circuit together for a road test. That reason is obvious. On subjective criteria the Speciale wins, but Ferrari doesn't want the "regular" McLaren beating up the specialty 458. Both cars produced in the low thousands.

Point remains, an analysis of paper stats is not going to decide what a GT350 is worth relative to a Camaro.

 

[GT Premi]

Not to disrupt the spat, but a 458 Speciale vs 650S isn't a correct comparison. If you want to do a more like-for-like comparison, it would be the 458 Italia vs 650S or 458 Speciale vs 675LT.

 

[DBK]

Not to disrupt the spat, but a 458 Speciale vs 650S isn't a correct comparison. If you want to do a more like-for-like comparison, it would be the 458 Italia vs 650S or 458 Speciale vs 675LT.

"Correct comparison."

There is no point comparing a 650S and a regular 458 Italia. Trust me, I've owned both.

Oh, and you should probably contact Ford with that pro tip.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Sounds like your the dense one or just a troll.. I didnt mention the GT on this thread, because this thread has nothing to do with the GT. Who ever said that GM selling anything over sticker is fine? Who is disrespecting the GT350? You dont have a mind to be blown.. I know what I said about the supercharging the GT350 and was questioning why people were so amazed that it made that much power, but what the hell does that have to do with the GT350 vs 1LE argument and dealer mark ups? I don't give a shit about your stupid arguments on how GM does it too or whatever.. Maybe we should talk about Ferraris too while were at it.. I was just pointing out that paying 20k over sticker for a car that has a close competitor makes no sense and ruins it for everyone else who thinks that the new shelbys are great at MSRP so I am excited about the fact that the 1LE may just bring this frenzy to an end.. WTF are you talking about? Your incoherent arguments make no sense and have nothing to do with this thread

We should talk about your relationship with Jesus Christ. I think it's time you put down the gin and stepped into the light my son.

 

[GT Premi]

"Correct comparison."

There is no point comparing a 650S and a regular 458 Italia. Trust me, I've owned both.

Oh, and you should probably contact Ford with that pro tip.

...

Why would you compare a club racer (Speciale) to a "street" car (650S)? No idea WTF you're talking about w/ that last comment.

 

[DBK]

Why would you compare a club racer (Speciale) to a "street" car (650S)? No idea WTF you're talking about w/ that last comment.

McLaren's regular 650S is all Ferrari's hardened 458 can handle.

I'm confident you'll figure it out.

 

[krt22]

Um, virtually everything quantitative. They aren't even remotely in the same league in a straight line. 650S kills everything that is not a hypercar in a straight line, and there's a reason Ferrari wouldn't let Autocar test the two head to head for lap times even though the cars were at the circuit together for a road test. That reason is obvious. On subjective criteria the Speciale wins, but Ferrari doesn't want the "regular" McLaren beating up the specialty 458. Both cars produced in the low thousands.

Point remains, an analysis of paper stats is not going to decide what a GT350 is worth relative to a Camaro.

You are honestly wasting your breath here man, these die-hard stat-sheet racers really have no clue as to what you are talking about and how curb presence can alter true market value.

 

[DBK]

You are honestly wasting your breath here man, these die-hard stat-sheet racers really have no clue as to what you are talking about and how curb presence can alter true market value.

Stats are great, stats are fun, but waiting for them to be a determinant of value is futile. Everything is fast now, everything is capable.

When GT350 gets cheaper, which it will, it'll only be because Ford has produced enough of them to go around.

 

[LS Boss]

I am a Ford guy. Anything that Chevy does will be met head on by Ford. Additionally, Ford will always meet and exceed their competition. The new 1LE, or any other mass produced Chevy products they manufacture, are nothing for me to be concerned with. I will always purchase Ford performance vehicles as long as Ford continues to produce quality products (and supports these products) and can be purchased at a affordable (pun intended) price.

Keep trying GM.

LS Boss

 

[Voltwings]

The real interesting thing here is the fact that the Camaro and Mustang are even competitors, and hear me out when i say this.

The Camaro gets to pull an engine from the Corvette program, a chassis from the Cadillac program, suspension and brakes from here, this from there ... Whereas Ford shares the mechanical bits of the mustang with trucks and the fusion ... The fact we're comparing them in regards to sportiness at all is incredible when you consider the resources GM has to pull from to make a car. The 6th gen Camaro IS an incredible car, but that really just goes to show you the mustang is pretty much always the underdog here but still keeps winning from time to time.

 

[ON D BIT]

Is this the new camaro that one still cant see out of?

Ok 3 seconds faster than the new ss. What in the world does that tell us? Is it faster on track than a z28? Is it faster on track than the slower z51? I do like the fact that 1le will have a special set of one off tires that we have no idea how they handle or compare to other tires today. Can we say shaved tires to make their numbers look better? It is GM....

 

[ZYBORG]

I predict the new 1LE will equal or best the regular 350. It will not beat the 350R.

 

[az20115.0]

I think things are really getting mixed up here.. can anyone at least realize that those who payed crazy dealer mark ups for the z28 feel pretty silly about now?

These are 50k cars, both the 350 and the z28, not 70 or 80.. Some people are getting excited over stupid shit here and don't even realize what I am trying to say. The fact that the 1LE is coming into existence should stabilize the prices for the 350s, and rightfully so!!!!! Not because the 350 is bad car, because the new Camaro is a good car as well.. There a lots of good cars out there, so if its not a limited production Ferrari which goes to people who have no issues with money, why pay the dealer mark ups?? Off course it would be nice if the 350R stabilized too, but that will probably take a few years.. When that happens you will see a GT350R avatar on my posts, until then I will enjoy my 3200 lb cammed Z06.. why? because I don't swear allegiance to Ford or Chevy or Honda or the asswhole who has the balls to mark up at gt350 by $100,000.. And believe me, that Z06 feels and sounds pretty f##ing good

 

[ON D BIT]

I predict the new 1LE will equal or best the regular 350. It will not beat the 350R.

So you feel the new 1le will beat the recently redesigned z51 which weighs 300lbs less?

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

I think things are really getting mixed up here.. can anyone at least realize that those who payed crazy dealer mark ups for the z28 feel pretty silly about now?

These are 50k cars, both the 350 and the z28, not 70 or 80.. Some people are getting excited over stupid shit here and don't even realize what I am trying to say. The fact that the 1LE is coming into existence should stabilize the prices for the 350s, and rightfully so!!!!! Not because the 350 is bad car, because the new Camaro is a good car as well.. There a lots of good cars out there, so if its not a limited production Ferrari which goes to people who have no issues with money, why pay the dealer mark ups?? Off course it would be nice if the 350R stabilized too, but that will probably take a few years.. When that happens you will see a GT350R avatar on my posts, until then I will enjoy my 3200 lb cammed Z06.. why? because I don't swear allegiance to Ford or Chevy or Honda or the asswhole who has the balls to mark up at gt350 by $100,000.. And believe me, that Z06 feels and sounds pretty f##ing good

Don't count on it. Look at the kind of car enthusiasts that are jumping into the GT350s. It's drawing in people who drive Ferraris and other exotics because of how spectacular the package is. People who wouldn't think twice about owning a Mustang are jumping on these, so don't expect the Camaro to have any effect on the demand that has been created.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

So you feel the new 1le will beat the recently redesigned z51 which weighs 300lbs less?

+1 GM fanboy is off in la-la land.

 

[mike69440]

Sat in a Gen 6 and sat in a New GT

The Gt350 is special car with a special engine and it's a shelby too, so it will hold its value overtime vs a run of the mill SS with 1le Package. The new Camaro definitely brought it this gen and it may even beat the gt350 for 1 lap, but that's where it will end for the 1le.

Killing time for a doctors apointment and tracking down a part for my 03, I was trolling at a Chevy and Ford dealsip recently.

Just like I would sitting in a Gen 5 or a coffin, I got the heck out of the Chevy real fast. Ok, maybe the Gen 6 is a wee bit better interior wise.

Mustang was a nice comfy place to sit.
I could live nicely in there.

People who don't notice the differnce must really like the LS motors.