Posted some Video's and Information later in the thread.
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Where's my 60'? 12 Auto Whipple....high boost.
- Thread starter ebrow21
- Start date
Suspension....Suspension.....Suspension!
I appreciate the response, but the car isn't spinning. I ran consistent low 1.5's with lowering springs, drag radials and a 75shot way before the whipple.
To the other poster: I edited/deleted my post. I'll wait for the weather to cool before passing judgement about the setup.
lol low 1.5x was ripping out of the hole before , going to take suspension work/weight reduction to see much better.
The difference is in the two power adders. Mostly in the way the two power adders react differently with the torque converter. The n2o(when sprayed off Idle which is the only way to get 1.5 60's) causes the converter to flash higher due to the Torque increase spraying off Idle.* Although the blower has good low end torque it doesn't have increases as low as the "flash point" of the converter so the effect is minimized. Also the N2O isn't effected by weather as much because it brings its' own "cold air".
OP, do you have a video of the car in it's current state at the track?
As I said before, the car has been consistent low 1.5's on nitrous. I also know why it 60'd so well on spray. My deletion of the post only provided opportunity for speculation, and it looks like I have some interest, so I'll put it back up.
Added the Whipple this May (82mm, jlt127, CJ65mm). VMP torco tune. ALSO added Circle D 2c, CHE reloc/lca/axle brace, etc. I've only run the car in the heat, best time 10.80@127 +1750DA. I expected the .60 to be close, which it was, in the high 1.5' range. It seemed to like footbrake to where it almost pushed through the beams. Flashing from 1k netted 1.62-1.65 range. The car does NOT spin.
Fast forward to now. Added Killer Chiller (it works, very well), injectors, 2.875in (73mm) Pulley, and kill tune. It was a bit hotter at the track (94-95 ambient, 2500+ Da dropping to 1900 or so). 60? 3 passes, 1.61-1.63 range. Again, the car does NOT spin. Logged the passes, no hiccups, no timing loss, no knock. I attempted the same launch technique as with the 3.250 pulley. I did not flash from idle, didn't have time, and was running a heads up class. Car has both metco idlers, and put a brand new k060815 when pulley was changed. No belt slip as I can tell.
The quarter mile et and mph improved measurably (even with DA difference), but I'm less interested in that at the moment. I know VMP netted 1.4x with a similar pulley and stock converter. BMR did the same, with an 82mm. Justin tuned all three of us. Given the 2c/82mm already gave high 1.5's, I would think adding the power I did would net a significant improvement.
Is it a weather issue? Converter flashes around 3200, it was spec'd by Chris for the setup info I provided. I know I need to spend some more time working with it on a cool test and tune night, but I would like to bounce this off a few people before I waste time beating on the car.
Thanks!
Edit: Yes my wife video's all my passes.
Added the Whipple this May (82mm, jlt127, CJ65mm). VMP torco tune. ALSO added Circle D 2c, CHE reloc/lca/axle brace, etc. I've only run the car in the heat, best time 10.80@127 +1750DA. I expected the .60 to be close, which it was, in the high 1.5' range. It seemed to like footbrake to where it almost pushed through the beams. Flashing from 1k netted 1.62-1.65 range. The car does NOT spin.
Fast forward to now. Added Killer Chiller (it works, very well), injectors, 2.875in (73mm) Pulley, and kill tune. It was a bit hotter at the track (94-95 ambient, 2500+ Da dropping to 1900 or so). 60? 3 passes, 1.61-1.63 range. Again, the car does NOT spin. Logged the passes, no hiccups, no timing loss, no knock. I attempted the same launch technique as with the 3.250 pulley. I did not flash from idle, didn't have time, and was running a heads up class. Car has both metco idlers, and put a brand new k060815 when pulley was changed. No belt slip as I can tell.
The quarter mile et and mph improved measurably (even with DA difference), but I'm less interested in that at the moment. I know VMP netted 1.4x with a similar pulley and stock converter. BMR did the same, with an 82mm. Justin tuned all three of us. Given the 2c/82mm already gave high 1.5's, I would think adding the power I did would net a significant improvement.
Is it a weather issue? Converter flashes around 3200, it was spec'd by Chris for the setup info I provided. I know I need to spend some more time working with it on a cool test and tune night, but I would like to bounce this off a few people before I waste time beating on the car.
Thanks!
Edit: Yes my wife video's all my passes.
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Was about to paste all that in for ya. Glad I looked at the thread first! haha
curious, did you improve on your 10.80 @ 127 ? Even with a worse short time your car is putting down some power. maybe 10.40 @131.
It improved both ET and MPH (1/8 and 1/4), even with the DA/heat, no ice on the blower, and the slight 60' difference. The car is certainly making power, which is why I don't plan on beating on it without a reason.
I have everything for a shortblock sitting in my garage, I would like to have usable heads/block at the end of the day. I wanted an idea of how it would act (on blower alone) when the new shortblock goes in.
I may make one more track outing before I pull the motor to build.
So it is dead hooking, but worse sixty foot.
This is tune related, too much traction related, or simply a converter issue.
If a car hooks harder, with more power, but slows down to the sixty......usually the car needs a little bit more wheel speed on the launch (make it spin more) - the tune needs to be a little more aggressive down low, or the converter needs to flash a little higher.
I see this all the time with my customers, and even US! When we had more aggressive Anti-Squat after the blower went on, we were cutting inconsistent 1.50's and 1.60's - and even a few 1.80's.........and with just moving the LCA to the middle position on our LCA Relocation brackets, we havent been "worse" than a 1.52 since then, except on one pass where the car acted funny on the hit (electrical/trans/something weird)
FWIW, I dont think Justin/Rebecca went 1.4's on the 82mm Pulley. Their best 60' ever was in the mid 1.4's with a 69mm pulley. I think on an 82mm they were probably in the 1.55 - 1.60 range. I could be wrong, but when we went 1.4's on the 82mm pulley, Justin was a bit surprised.
Another FWIW, we have the same converter as you - and it is flashing in the 3600 range, IIRC.
Do you have a stock UCA/Mount? Is the car stock ride-height?
This may turn out to be another example of why I do not like suspension components that are "one-size fits all"
In other words, if the car is stock ride-height, lowering the LCA to the single position of most LCA Brackets is working backwards. You want to lower the UCA down, and "maybe" lower the LCA slightly...
This is tune related, too much traction related, or simply a converter issue.
If a car hooks harder, with more power, but slows down to the sixty......usually the car needs a little bit more wheel speed on the launch (make it spin more) - the tune needs to be a little more aggressive down low, or the converter needs to flash a little higher.
I see this all the time with my customers, and even US! When we had more aggressive Anti-Squat after the blower went on, we were cutting inconsistent 1.50's and 1.60's - and even a few 1.80's.........and with just moving the LCA to the middle position on our LCA Relocation brackets, we havent been "worse" than a 1.52 since then, except on one pass where the car acted funny on the hit (electrical/trans/something weird)
FWIW, I dont think Justin/Rebecca went 1.4's on the 82mm Pulley. Their best 60' ever was in the mid 1.4's with a 69mm pulley. I think on an 82mm they were probably in the 1.55 - 1.60 range. I could be wrong, but when we went 1.4's on the 82mm pulley, Justin was a bit surprised.
Another FWIW, we have the same converter as you - and it is flashing in the 3600 range, IIRC.
Do you have a stock UCA/Mount? Is the car stock ride-height?
This may turn out to be another example of why I do not like suspension components that are "one-size fits all"
In other words, if the car is stock ride-height, lowering the LCA to the single position of most LCA Brackets is working backwards. You want to lower the UCA down, and "maybe" lower the LCA slightly...
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I would also like to add, our car (tune) is extremely conservative. 11sec_lx can confirm, as I sent him a log of one of our passes, and that was the ONLY pass that we made with 15-16 degrees of timing. We usually run it on 14 degrees.
Due to that, just by adding 2 degrees down low, the car comes out of the hole SO much harder - it is mind boggling.
What type of timing are you running down low on launch?
Due to that, just by adding 2 degrees down low, the car comes out of the hole SO much harder - it is mind boggling.
What type of timing are you running down low on launch?
Car has K-Springs, CHE LCA/relocation brackets (Only one hole adjustable), CHE axle brace, radiator support/swaybar delete, and a Strano rear adjustable swaybar (on stiffest setting). I have a UCA sitting in the garage. So you weren't spinning, it was a setting issue with your car?
I guess I worded it wrong, I knew VMP was on at least a 72mm when it went 1.4x. I'm on a similar pulley.
It has a fair amount of timing, 16-17degrees off the hit. Going to have to check the logs again to confirm. It makes me wonder, the 2c works well for others, the car has a proven tuner, but I have 60'd better with less power on a stock converter (435hp/440tq range).
As I said though, I didn't try to flash the converter, was more worried about R/T as I was running a heads up class.
I'll post a video when I get home this evening.
I was thinking VMP went 1.43 with a 69mm.
You are right, the log you sent to me didn't have much timing in it. However, it was very lean in the first two gears, a full a/f point leaner that I have seen on any logs. Coincidence? Is that worth any power? Conventional wisdom would say so, however, these combos sometimes aren't typical. So I have no idea. This is just one log.
You are right, the log you sent to me didn't have much timing in it. However, it was very lean in the first two gears, a full a/f point leaner that I have seen on any logs. Coincidence? Is that worth any power? Conventional wisdom would say so, however, these combos sometimes aren't typical. So I have no idea. This is just one log.
Okay, I would like to see the car leaving. I have been working with DBR with their car, and we recently got his car into the 1.4's for the first time ever, on his first trip with all of my parts and recommendations....and it still has a BUNCH more in it, we just now have to work on the tune - it needs to hit the tires harder.
You can see how the car leaves like it's in traffic...lol - but 1.4's is pretty good. I think once we can hit the tires harder, we'll get him down into the 1.3's.
As far as our car, we were simply not achieving enough wheel speed - OR simply spinning "too" much, when we were running an aggressive AS% setting. We were running over 130% AS....and the car was awesome, N/A.....but we had to settle down the AS when we added 200rwhp....and it just works better with a little spin - compared to "dead hooking"
You have a pretty decent set-up right now, with the K-Springs and your LCA setting. Unfortunately, the CHE's won't let you adjust AS% though.....so introducing wheel speed on your setup will be achieved by a higher tire pressure...or making more power, etc.
As far as your sixty with nitrous, I am not surprised. A stock, or small converter.....with nitrous, is deadly. That combo will introduce much more TQ at launch (with more force) than a SC combo with a bigger converter. Nitrous makes the most TQ on the hit, and the lower the RPM, typically the higher the TQ/Force to the tires. I would not fret on that too much.
Maybe it was a 1.43, all I know is they went mid 1.4's with a pretty small pulley.
I did notice ours was leaner down low. Maybe it is worth power, not sure. All I know, is, the car leaves super hard. :rockon: The 1.4's on our slips are deceiving, as they are deep staged. :burnout:
I should have some good feedback on these TVS Coyotes and Suspension Set-ups come October. We are going to get aggressive :banana:
Here are a couple of video's as requested.
Best pass, other car went in the 10.70 range.
[youtube_browser]UR8yEsioWEc[/youtube_browser]
This was a hotlap early in the day. Went from the street tune to the race tune.
[youtube_browser]Fruk68BHyfc[/youtube_browser]
Apologies for the sideways Ipad view.
Edit: Checked the log, flash is 3200rpm exactly under full throttle on the second video.
Best pass, other car went in the 10.70 range.
[youtube_browser]UR8yEsioWEc[/youtube_browser]
This was a hotlap early in the day. Went from the street tune to the race tune.
[youtube_browser]Fruk68BHyfc[/youtube_browser]
Apologies for the sideways Ipad view.
Edit: Checked the log, flash is 3200rpm exactly under full throttle on the second video.
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Guess everyone lost interest.
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